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| jhammons01 | Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I changed the water pump on Friday. Even though I flushed the system ~18 months ago, the system was still full of rusty water.
When I filled the system back up I used straight Distilled water from the Grocery store. well today, I had a hose come a little loose and dripping after it got hot. Well, again the water is rusty. I knew I wasn't keeping this coolant so I never used any Anti freeze. I knew I was going to flush soon. Back to Ralph's for more water. I'm going to go on at least one long run before I flush it but I'll probably flush this next round again....It's one of those things where you have to keep flushing until the water starts coming out semi clear. From my seat, that is the way I see it. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/16 22:37
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| jhammons01 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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As usual with my post.....I'm the only one actually posting LOL
WTG JHam......or....jham you're full if it... |
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Posted on: 2008/3/17 16:21
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| pianoguy | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Yep, that's what the FSM recommends - a flushing-T would be handy.
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Posted on: 2008/3/17 16:30
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| pappyfreebird | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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hey take it from me ...talkin ta yerself ain so bad....its when ya git pissed off n start slapin cheeyut outta yerself that ya need ta werry bout
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Posted on: 2008/3/17 17:48
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| jhammons01 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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I don't like that flushing "T" as it introduces tap water into your system.
I'll bet you dollars to Donuts the reason my system is rusty to begin with is due to the PO filling the tank with Tap. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/17 18:03
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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You can't flush it with the thermostat in place.
I remove the tstat, put the upper neck and hose back on, then I blast the system out with a garden hose from the upper hose, lower hose, then alternate. If your hose sprayer doesn't fit snug inside the radiator hose, wrap it with duct tape to make it a tight fit so it doesn't shoot water all over you. You need some good force to remove all the loose rust, the little cleaners/flush/dissolvers won't cut it. The benefits of a good power flush far outweigh the downside of having extra tap water in there. And if you insist you can then drain the extra tap water by removing the sensors at the bottom of the block just above the oil pan. Also, never ever run the system without antifreeze for any length of time. Tap water is VERY nasty and corrosive when it's operating at 180+ and the antifreeze is your only corrosion protection. It will attack your head/intake gaskets until it leaks into the lifter valley. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/17 18:34
Edited by CentralCoaster on 2008/3/17 20:24:38 |
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| MAXXWRENCH | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
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WELL PUT CENTRAL..WELL PUT
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Posted on: 2008/3/17 19:37
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| jhammons01 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
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ah ha!!! you first must put Tap water into the system for it to be corrosive to the heads and gasket....
Three Jugs of Distilled water.......Went to Riverside and back. Tonight, I just drained the system again. The overfill reservoir was rusty as hell but the drain was flowing clear. I started to turkey baster the Reservoir but that took too long so I pulled it out and cleaned it in the Kitchen sink. Now it is clean (and dry....don't start with the tap water BS) and replaced. I just filled the system again with just Distilled water. It only seems to take ~2 gallons. maybe a wee bit more. I'll run this water for another 100 miles and then drain it to see if it is clear or not. If it is clear, then I'll replace it with a 70/30 mix. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/18 4:44
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| jhammons01 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
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So now this thing is running a constant 175°-182° on the freeway when I can get clean air.
Stop and go traffic has yet to make it climb to the old temps of 230°. Today in Pasadena stop and go heavy traffic it only went up to 212° So, I think that last summer when my temps went to 250° it may have been due to the Water Pump starting to get weak. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/20 5:32
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| 93Moneypit | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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If you completely drain your system of antifreeze leave the radiator drain open add a cup of simple green in the pressure tank fill it with tap water. Start it and let it idle with the tap watter hose just running enough to compensate fore the watter draining out of the radiator it will clean your hole system out.
Ive cleaned out quit a few system this way. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 9:35
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| red_johnny | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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On Sabbatical
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So your saying that distilled water wont rust metal? I never heard of that before.
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 11:50
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| crash | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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THE WAY TO DO IT IS TO HOOK INTO THE HEATER HOSE THAT GOES TO THE THERMOSTAT THAT WAY WHEN FLUSHING THE INCOMING COLD WATER CLOSES THE STAT THIS IN TURN CAUSES A REVERSE FLOW OF THE WATER THIS WILL CLEAN IT OUT IT WOULD BE WISE TO USE A COOLING SYSTEM CLEANER AND DRIVE IT FOR 20-30 MILE THEN FLUSH IT
ALSO THE RUST COULD BE CAUSED FROM ELECTRALIS MAKE SURE ALL YOU ENGINE GROUNDS ARE GOOD AND IF THERE IS A GROUND ON THE COOLING SYSTEM ALSO IF YOU HAD A LEAK IN THE SYSTEM OXYGEN COULD HAVE GOTTEN IN THE SYSTEM CAUSING THE PROBLEM ALSO BEING IN THE AUTO REPAIR FIELD FOR 35 YEARS ALL WE EVER USED IS TAP WATER ITS NOT THE CAUSE OF YOUR RUST THE CAUSE IS POOR MAINTENANCE TO THE COOLING STSTEM FLUSH IT EVERY 30,000 MILES OR 2 YEARS ALSO IF YOU ARE USING DEXCOOL QUIT ZEREX MAKES A NEW A/FREEZE CALLED GO5 BETTER AND DOESNT ATTACK THE GASKET LIKE DEXCOOL REMEMBER A GOOD CLEANER AND DRIVE IT THEN FLUSH DEPENDS HOW DIRTY YOUR SYSTEM YOU MAY HAVE TO DO IT TWICE ALSO USE A WATER PUMP LUBRICANT AND RUST INHIBITOR GOOD LUCK |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 12:03
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| MK 82 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Any form of straight water will begin to form rust almost instantly. NEVER put straight water in your engine. At the very least put in a bottle of water wetter. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 14:07
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| MK 82 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
BULL!!  |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 14:09
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| MK 82 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
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[quote]
jhammons01 wrote: ah ha!!! you first must put Tap water into the system for it to be corrosive to the heads and gasket.... quote] Absolutely 100% wrong!! |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 14:11
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| jhammons01 | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Senior Guru
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Phew, Where oh where to begin.
Distilled water will oxidize (rust) metal just the same....there is oxygen molecules in that H20 Rust and Electrolysis are not the same. Rust particulate will lead to Electrolysis occuring. And this is why the coolant must be flushed after a while. There is no such thing a PURE water but we can get close. Water itself, Pure H2O is NOT conductive. The particulate floating in the water is conductive. Once you introduce tap water into the system lots of contaminate (naturally found in water) is introduced as well. This contaminate along with the 12v DC charge from your electrical system (remember? We use the block for Grounding that system?) starts a process called Electrolysis. This is the same process we use in Chrome plating or Electro/chemical etch. Some materials will be dissolved and that dissolved material will be deposited (on the molecular level) somewhere else. The Trouble starts with, what will be dissolved?? Softer metals will be first and fastest. All steel coolant systems from the past never had a problem with Tap water. But as we all know, we are now using a lot of aluminum here and there. My '84 has steel heads and Block but the later GM V8s moved to an aluminum block. LT series and the Norstar Motors to name a couple. Mine has aluminum in the radiator and Heater core. (Ever wonder why we have so many problems with that heater core leaking??? I don't.) Read what GM recommends for motors with Aluminum Polypropylene Glycol and not Ethylene Glycol. There is a reason for that. So if you have troubles with things corroding/failing sooner than you expected, you may want to look into what I have written a bit further. I'm no Corvette expert but I did help launch an Antifreeze recycling service back in the early 90s....I learned way more about Antifreeze and coolant than the average man should ever know. I had to do battle with SCAQMD (the local EPA for those that are not in the SoCal region) State entities for two reasons, one for licensing purposes and then I walked down the hall and sold the fleet managers on the process. I had to battle with municipalities fleet managers. Diesel Trucks have a lot of strict Coolant requirments with the use of Surfactants etc. Diesel Fleet service managers, Local repair shops, Dealerships, GM, Ford on and on.... Luckily I've forgotten enough to carry on as a semi normal Human but certain things stick in the noodle. I'll leave this discussion with one memory. Ever wonder why they sell Distilled water at the grocery store? Did you ever see your Mom with a jug of distilled water?? Ever see her put it in the Iron? Let's add that mystery up. Iron, Electricity, water.......what could it all mean? |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 16:22
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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There's 3 different things going on here, don't confuse them.
RUST - oxygenated water corroding metals GALVANIC CORROSION - dissimilar metals in contact in water) ACIDIC WATER - pure water dissolving metals RUST occurs extremely slow in 100% pure water because of its extremely low conductivity and lack of free oxygen. The pure water molecules must be reduced down to H2+ and O3- before the iron can oxidize, and these reactions need electrical conductivity to occur. In tap water, you have dissolved oxygen ions which readily corrodes the iron. You also have dissolved hydroxides and dissolved metals in there, like sodium, calcium, magnesium that increase its conductivity, which speeds up the corrosion process. The steel and cast iron will corrode much faster than aluminum. GALVANIC CORROSION. The high conductivity increases the rate of galvanic corrosion, ONLY IF there are dissimilar metals in direct contact with each other and the electrolyte (coolant). This occurs where the alum heads meet the iron block, or where the iron heads meet the alum intake, depending on year. The contact is made through the head gasket and bolts, or at the intake through just the bolts. (If the intake bolts on a 84-85 car were insulated from the intake with plastic sleeves, no galvanic corrosion would occur there.) ACIDIC WATER, mostly distilled water, has a low pH and will slowly dissolve almost anything it touches until the pH becomes neutral. This is why it's usually stored in plastic or glass or tin. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 21:28
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Quote:
It won't be just the same, it'll be way slower. Quote:
Not on its own. Quote:
Even theoretically pure water is slightly conductive. Every single substance known to man is conductive. Quote:
The DC charge in the coolant from the electrical system is infinitesimal, if even measureable at all, it is nowhere near 12V. To say there's a voltage there would be like saying you've got a voltage difference between one end of the engine block and the other. There will be a measurable DC voltage if there's galvanic corrosion occuring, whether or not there's a 12V system in operation. In fact, dissolved ions in the coolant would decrease whatever electrical system induced voltage (if any) might occur. High conductivity = lower voltage, remember? Quote:
My understanding is PG is superior to EG, except in cost and freeze point. It will provide the same benefit to any cooling system, aluminum or not. In fact, all-aluminum engines will corrode SLOWER than ferrous metals. Put both metals outside in the rain or salt water and see what corrodes faster. Also I'm pretty sure your heater core is brass, every other car I've changed one one had brass. Quote:
It means you're completely off in left field. Distilled water is used because of it's mineral purity. Irons produce steam. As the water boils off, you're left with a higher and higher concentration of minerals and precipitates. These will foul up your iron in no time and stain your clothes. (Read up on "cycles of concentration"). Now I haven't taken my iron apart, but I'm pretty sure the iron face is aluminum, for its good thermal conductivity. I don't know what the electric heating element is made of, but either way I doubt they'd put any dissimilar metals in contact inside there to cause galvanic corrosion. Your turn! |
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Posted on: 2008/3/21 21:55
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| jsup | Re: Flushing afterwards | ||
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Just in case you haven't been formally introduced, this is Shift Key:  |
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Posted on: 2008/3/22 21:13
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