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| Hensen | 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Lent car to a friend. Car is low milage - 30k. Driving fine for 40 miles, then starts to miss. Over 10 mins missing gets worse. Then stops totally. Cut a long story short, we got spark. Spray " easy start" into intake and it fires up immediately and then dies as soon as the easy start runs out. Cracked open the petrol / gas pipe joint close to the front of the engine and the pressure seems good. Checked the fuses that I can see behind the cover on pass side. Seem ok. Car has had little use over the last 3 months but up till now always started up fine and drove fine. So, any clues ?? Any thing hidden, that I should know about. A fuse somewhere/ a relay somewhere thats famous for giving trouble ?? How do I test an injector with limited tools to see if they are firing, but no gas. Is it likely to be something not allowing the injectors to work, or a blockage in the rail area? Seems to be a clue that it took 10 mins to gradually die..........maybe like a blockage getting worse....or is it a case of an electrical problem getting worse. Please remember I live in west Wales, no napa, no chevy dealers, etc. Just the advice of uneducated sheep. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/8 21:18
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Or could simply be a bad fuel pump. They can sputter and die slowly.
Have a friend turn the key on and put your ear up under the back of the car in a quiet area. Listen for the fuel pump priming. It should give a solid 2 second hum. If it sputters or gurgles, or does nothing, it's probably to blame. It's an easy fix though, you replace it from up top. Checking the fuel pressure is pointless without a guage. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/8 21:46
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| Woodstock | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Did you get a service engine soon light?
In 17 years the engine stalled on me only 4 times, once the ECM died the other times it was alternator related. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/8 22:20
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91 convertible |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Yeah but this is absolutely a fuel delivery problem.
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Posted on: 2008/5/9 0:07
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| bogus | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I would start simple... any bets on whether the fuel filter is original?
Not that I am a fan of FRAM, but their fuel filters aren't bad... Part Number G3727 is their number. According to their site, the Jaguar fuel filter #NMD6091AB and NMD6091AC are interchangeable. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/9 2:28
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Quote:
Almost no question about it. And the first port of call id be making is pulling the fuel sender assembly out of the tank and checking the filter on the pickup at the bottom of the pump. If thats the issue, youll need a new sock filter, new fuel sender assembly gasket, and a new main filter. Im buggered if i know where West Wales is, but i know its not in Australia. Get onto MAXX WRENCH (website is in my sig below) and tell him where you are and what you need when you find out what you need to fix the car. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/9 6:43
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Latest update.
Took the pump out and its fine - healthy 40psi. Next stop, injectors, All OK at 16 ohms. All fuses in o/s panel OK. Next stop was to test for an injector signal, so put a meter on the starboard rear injector top and got a friend to crank it over - damn me it started !!!!!! So, put injector top back on, but revs did not pick up because its only firing on the port bank. Now the only thing thats been done since the problem started is the connecting of jump leads to top up the battery as it was nearly flat from all the cranking. So, drove it home 9 miles on the 4 port cylinders. Not very fast, but got home anyway. So, did another test, pulled the 2 fuses that control the injectors. The lower one caused a dead stop, the upper one caused a gradual stop, maybe 3 seconds, each test at idle. So, as it must be the control of the starboard bank of injectors, I am starting to think ECM.........is the anything else it could be ?? |
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Posted on: 2008/5/9 14:45
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| -=Jeff=- | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Master Guru
 
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unless the wire got cut there are 2 injector drivers in the ECM.. one for the Left side and one for the Right.
very possible the ECM is bad. DID you ohm the injectors out when it is cold? check them again when hot, you may still have an injector issue |
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Posted on: 2008/5/9 18:34
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-=Jeff=- 1990 Corvette ZR-1 #1051 |
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Buying a ECM from a man in Michigan who has one out of the car his young daughter took for a "spin" after it was rebuilt........
Hope that cures all the problems. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 11:06
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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this is a car, not a boat, i dont understand nautical terms. Sorry mate
 If both INJ fuses cause the engine to stop, then id say they are all getting some sort of signal to fire. I cant say ive ever tried to drive an L98 on 4 cylinders, and while my LT1 will run on 4, it cant be driven on 4. It simply cant be driven on 4, and certainly not on one side of the engine. Now while im not saying yours cant be driven on 4, i AM saying i find that extremely hard to swallow. What you need to do is test EVERY injector with an ohmmeter, then test one by one ALL the injector connectors. If youve done this allready, im sorry but i couldnt make alot of sense out of your post above due to nautical terms. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 12:22
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| bogus | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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starboard = right
port = left stern = rear bow = front keel = greasy side jib = open clam shell  |
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 18:34
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| DaleD | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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topside = targa top/convertible top
focsle = closed targa top bilge = oil pan head = pulled over to the side of the road to pee |
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 18:52
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| bogus | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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bilge could also be the passengers side carpet, especially if the heater core is leaking.
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 19:00
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| DaleD | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Quote:
True, and much more accurate.  |
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 19:04
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| Matatk | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Quote:
 Matthew |
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 19:11
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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I used the nautical terms because there can be no arguement, talk about offside, etc , when you live on another continent that drives on the other side of the road, and you are tempting fate.........
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 19:55
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Tested, all 16ohms.
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 19:57
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Here is where I live........welcome to West Wales. http://images.google.com/imgres?imgur ... um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN |
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 20:03
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| bogus | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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West Wales? Gee, I am sure a couple of folks from West Wales were on the Botany Bay...
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Posted on: 2008/5/11 20:19
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Left and right are left and right all over the world as far as i know though. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/12 7:10
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Problem seems to have changed. Spent some time this evening checking out whats working. No longer the roadside panic situation.
Now discovered that its misfiring on the 3rd cylinder on the left bank and the 3rd and 4th on the right bank.....so have 5 out of 8 working !! Checked plugs and spark etc - all OK. Cannot think that 3 injectors all decided to die at the same time. Injector caps giving 12 volts with ignition on, engine not running. Any thoughts, please. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/12 19:46
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| Randyj75 | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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This discription REALLY makes it sound like you have bad fuel injectors. Are you sure you ohm'ed them correctly? Randy |
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Posted on: 2008/5/13 1:49
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| jsup | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Elite Guru
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You check the injectors by resistance across the coil. Should be 14-16 ohms. Checking for power at the plugs does not tell you anything about the condition of the injectors.
The injectors did not "decide to go bad at the same time"...they were all going bad together. Once one goes, the rest soon follow becuase they are drawing more current to compensate for the bad one. Which, if I understand it correctly, fries the coils. Call jon at FICINJECTORS. http://fuelinjectorconnection.com/shop/ |
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Posted on: 2008/5/13 4:01
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Elite Guru
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You need the engine running to check for signal to fire at the injector plugs, engine not running will tell you absolutely nothing.
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Posted on: 2008/5/13 7:30
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| toptechx6 | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Senior Guru
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One other thought based on your last description that is somewhat contrary to most opinion so far. The cylinders you describe as misfiring should be 5, 6, and 8 assuming we are using the same front/back/fore/aft/right/left/port/starboard/driver/passenger reference.
 Since 5 and 6 are adjacent in the firing order, I would inspect the inside of the distributor cap for cracks or carbon tracking. It costs nothing and will eliminate one possibility, good luck. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/13 9:48
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| vetteblondie | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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head? Whatcha call it if it's a girl who needs to peee...... |
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Posted on: 2008/5/13 17:50
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The answer to any question that begins with "Am I the only one who..." is always "no". �Ugol's Law Yes, I'm a bitch... just not YOURS. 
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Split the whisker
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Posted on: 2008/5/15 5:37
Edited by CasetheCorvetteman on 2008/5/15 8:02:08 |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Senior Guru
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It will fire the injectors just fine during cranking. I once installed my drivers side fuel rail upside down and let the injectors spray into a box to see which were failing. If you think it's the injector signals, then get a noid light or swap the injectors around. Maybe not the best or fastest way, but you can at least test half the injectors at a time and eliminate the guesswork.  |
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Posted on: 2008/5/15 16:33
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Its working again - well, for a while anyway. Got noid lights, and the spare ECM. Tested for pulses, and the noid light flashed OK. So, with engine running, gave the first injector a gentle tap in the side, yes, that cylinder cut in, So, I tapped the other two, no luck. Decided to take it all apart and swop injectors around. Got it mostly apart, then, as it was gonna get dark, decided to put it all back together, and do it tomorrow. Guess what, they were all working, drove it a little, all OK !!!
The engine was running when I noticed that the digital section of the dash was not lit up - speedo, gas level etc. So, I started pulling fuses, looking for a blown one. During this messing around, I switched off the engine, and a few seconds later tried to start it again - nothing at all, no cranking, just dash lights. Has the VATS system decided to play silly buggers ?? Metered my key 681 ohms. Cleaned the key, but no luck. disconnected battery for 20 mins and hooked it up again, still no luck. Any ideas anybody ??? |
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Posted on: 2008/5/20 19:31
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| FLYINLOW90 | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Quote:
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Posted on: 2008/5/20 20:15
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I got fun..Ya want Some? :tongue: |
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| Hensen | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Problem sorted. Turned out to be a fuse that was not blown, but did have a sort of "clear " rusting on one side. Fooled me because I used a tester in place, rather than pulling each fuse and looking at it with binoculars
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Posted on: 2008/5/21 8:08
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: 1991 C4 died today .. help please. | ||
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Good to see its going again mate
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Posted on: 2008/5/21 8:45
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