A friend of mine has a pretty nice 1965 L-79 Coupe. He bought the car a while back from an out of state dealer. He over paid for a mis-represented car. He bought what was claimed to be an "older restoration". The car looks good from far, but is far from good. Unfortunately, he bought the car before we met.

I don't want to write a book, so I'll try to keep it short. When the car was delivered, it wouldn't idle, but could be driven by working the gas pedal and the clutch. It couldn't be driven far, because it would over heat.

He took the car to a few high rent, "reputable" shops. You know the kind, way over-priced, a nice assortment of high-end cars parked out front, a wall covered with magazine features about said shop, an owner who interfaces with the customers, and has a hell of a spiel about how he's been doing X-Y-Z for twenty years, and invariably ends it with a menacing "you get what you pay for" line.

Anyway, the first shop changed his perfectly functional OE carb for a new Holley 670 Avenger, then proceded to crank the idle speed screw down to the point the car would stay running, but was off the mixture screws, and would diesel when turned-off. The car was barely drivable and heated up after a short run time. He didn’t cheap out on recommended labor or parts. The car was not fixed. Oh well, you get what you pay for.

Another shop installed an electric fan, a cheesy looking chrome one wire alternator and a mini starter to fix the over heating problem. No dice. The car was still heating up and drove like crap. He didn’t cheap out on recommended labor or parts. The car was not fixed. Oh well, you get what you pay for.

He took the car to another consummate professional, who decided the new Avenger carb was the problem, and replaced it with a 600 Holley. Same deal, idle speed screw cranked way down, to where the car was off the idle circuit and dieseled when shut off. This prfessional also had the foresight to strip his thermostat housing bolt threads in the original L-79 intake. Fortunately, this epitome of the "get what you pay for high end shop", explained that they all leaked when they were new... just monitor your coolant. This rocket scientist also placed a ball bearing in the vac advance hose.

So, my friend posted a thread on CF looking for advice. He had a very expensive piece of garage art that he couldn't drive. Kinda like far too many of the NCRS types that prowl cruise night parking lots and trash talk lesser Vettes, that have the audacity to be driven… but I digress.

I read his story, and felt bad for him. He was quite pizzed at the typical shops, and I was not in the least bit surprised, because when you step-up and spend the big bucks, you get what you pay for. Anyway, although I never met him, I offered to take a look at his car for him. Despite the fact that I am not a professional mechanic, I do not own a high-end shop, I haven't been doing this for 20+ years, and I don't have a "you get what you pay for spiel", I was willing to take a shot at his fixing his car.

Against his better judgement, he brought the car by, but only after some folks over at CF said he ought to let me take a gander at it.

First, I removed the ball bearing from the vac advance line, bumped his initial timing up, and set his mixture screws with a vacuum gauge. His car previously wouldn't idle at less than 1200 RPM. I had it down to a lopey 850 RPM, pulling 10 1/2" vacuum. He was over cammed, but it looked like we were in business. When he shut his car off, it no longer dieseled… surprise, surprise. Could it be that the professionals were wrong... maybe it didn’t have a race cam, and it really didn't need to idle at 1200 RPM? That work took me less than 30 minutes to accomplish. The first 15 were spent trying to convince him to let me take a shot at it.

Now again, I must disclose that I am not a professional, I haven't been doing this for 20+ years, and I absolutely do not have a "you get what you pay for spiel". Nonetheless, for the first time since he had the car, it was able to be driven somewhat normally. The car did still heat-up, however, during the test drive. Anyway, he told me to drive it like I was testing my own car. I told him no problem, I'd be happy too. I slipped the clutch at 3500 RPM and got sideways, and the car got some decent second and third gear rubber. I think he was surprised. He had previously never been able to drive above 40 MPH, because the car would miss and pop. Not being used to driving a late model, I wasn't sure how the independent rear ends were supposed to act in a clutch dump situation.

When we returned from the shake down run, I suggested he go to the junk yard and get a bigger 7 blade fan off a mid-70s AC equipped car, and lose the electric fan. My advice wasn't heeded.

He drove the car more, but limited it to short trips (because of the over-heating). He came by the house and gave me his 670 Avenger carb, I tried to refuse, but he insisted, because I wouldn't let him pay me. So, I bolted it on the 62 while he watched, and had it running. A few tweaks later, and it was perfect. The wife and I drove the 62 to Bowling Green, KY with this so-called junk carb. Oh well, maybe if he'd have paid more, he would have gotten a drivable carb, and you know, gotten what he paid for.
Back on subject. A few weeks ago, I did an in car cam swap for him. I replaced the unk cam with a hydraulic F/T 262 Voodoo cam. The car picked up a few inches of vac at idle, and the low-end and throttle response were greatly improved. However, his car was still heating up. At this point, having played with different temp sending units, and a infra red temp gun, we confirmed the car was in fact running too hot. I was starting to fear he had a cracked head or bock.

Some folks on CF suggested he get a Dewitts radiator, and others suggested a high flow water pump. I suggested he wait, and check his coolant for exhaust in it. He decided to replace his copper-brass unit with the fore-mentioned Dewitt. He also bought a hi-flow water pump. His car still heated-up, but it did take longer to do so… To be fair, Dewitts has a hell of a reputation in the C1 and C2 worlds, and I am taking nothing away from their product here.
In the mean time, I replaced the size 31 shooter that a dyno shop had installed on his 600 Holley carb, with the size 26 shooter off of his OE carb. This change did wonders for the drivability. On the temperture front, he installed a flex fan. It dropped the temps some. They were now hovering in the 215 - 220* range. We tested his coolant for exhaust gas. There was no exhaust getting in the coolant, as such, the heads/gaskets were fine.

He was at his wits end. At this point, I re-suggested he go to the pick your part and get a larger 7 blade fan. He finally did Saturday evening. He called me up Saturday night, excited as a kid at Christmas, telling me his car wouldn't go above 175*. A $10 fan fixed what a few thousand $$$ and a couple professionals couldn't.

Oh well, you get what you pay for.

Hey Wes,

That was a great thing you did for this guy, even though it took him a while before he trusted your motives.
What you did was really all about giving/helping others for THEIR sake.

TOO cool.

nice when they finally listen, huh?

I can really relate to your story. Nice job Wes .

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I got a lot of help when I was learning, most of it came from people I was never able to return the favor to. I've also been burned a time or two, and to be honest have no faith in the ability of shops to consistently perform as they promise. Meaning, they may do good by customers A, B, and C, but God forbid your the one, unlucky bastard that gets hosed by them. Customers A, B, C will help the shop ride you out of town on a rail...

Anyway, given the help I've gotten in the past, and my "love" of automotive shops, try to help-out when I can.

Well, this guy happened to be a dentist. He was looking at my son's teeth while I was wrenching on his car. I never asked him too, nor did I tell him about my son's teeth. After the first day I wrenched, he offered to do some cosmetic work for my son, and invited us to his cousins place for a BBQ and some horse back riding. I said yeah sure, no problem. This being So Cal, I never expected to hear from him again.

Well, he bugged me incessantly until I agreed to go to the BBQ. After the BBQ, he insited we go to his dental office. He did some leveling work on my son's front teeth and removed a mark that was caused when he fell and hit his teeth as a child. We were previously told by our dentist that the mark was permanent. In a couple hours, he took care of everything. I was quite impressed. Apparently, he does a fair amount of high-end cosmetic work.

Anyway, we get together a few times a month now, mostly BS sessions. He did stop by when I was putting my truck's 383 in the 62... he'll help when he can, and he's the first to volunteer to run to the parts house if you need something.

BTW, he has a set of Cuisinartvette-ported 2 1/2" ramshorn manifolds on his car.

Great story Wes. You saved the guy a lot of money and aggravation. Wish they all ended this way.

Wow Wes. Sounds like a match about made in heaven. A Dr who does good work has found a man who does good car work.

And your son has a perfect smile now!

Like I said, I was just trying to give a little bit back, and to be honest, I get a perverse satisfaction out of unfuggin what the "you get what you pay for shops" screw-up.

I wasn't expecting to get anything in return. Heck, I wasn't even expecting to like the guy, given my experience with C1/C2 owners at shows. Sometimes, things just work out.

I don't ever take a car to a shop unless its something I KNOW I can't do. I would rather research, talk about and research some more than pay someone 10 times the amount it would cost me to do it. Plus, you learn in the process. I built my own 700R4 tranny for that very reason. The only thing I probably will not do is paint, but have considered it.

BTW Wes, I think that was very cool of you too!

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I agree...

...instructive story.

Cool story.

Makes you wonder if there's going to be anyone around later that can tune a carb

There's a bunch of "high end" shops around here. Seems to me that their expertise is mainly in "bolt on's" and the highly favored "impact wrench". What they mostly sell is Bling.
Reputable shops are few and far between. And it's very hard for the "average Joe" to find one.

There's only 2 shops in this area that I'd be confident to recommend to some one. Both are race shops that work on vintage and newer cars. I've never heard a complaint about either one. I've done tech inspection on cars they've built and see high quality craftsmanship. But that's 2 shops out of 200+ here.

What I see here is a guy with limited knowledge that bought a C2 without having someone who knows the cars inspect it. That along with a misrepresenting seller got him in the position he was in before he came to you.
Unfortunately this is the norm in the used car world. How many guys pick up used C4's off a car lot and then find that they need thousands in repairs?

It's pretty cool that you helped the guy out and that he returned the favor.

I wonder if I'm "one of those NCRS types" ? I prefer matching numbers cars, used to judge NCRS, But: I like to see cars that are driven, even top flight ones. And if you have a car without the correct motor/trans, why not mod it.

Bill - Gene Banks calls that "egogeering."

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Ha!

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When I first bought my 59, I immediately joined the NCRS. Seemed the right thing to do at the time. Within a few months of ownership, and having encountered plenty of other NCRS members at local venues, I had my fill of them. I didn't bother to renew the membership.

My experience has been that the biggest collection of azzhats at any automotive venue are the "check writers who live to pick apart lesser cars", followed closely by the "resto only, holier than thou types". There are far too many of both in the NCRS.

I don't see any reason not to mod the original engines. My 1959 CU code 283 now has a 4.00" bore and has been clearanced for a 3.75" stroke. Our 62 was an undesirable, low-horse secretary car, so we bored and stroked it as well. The 62's original 327 block and heads has gone 12.77 in the 1/4 mile. I expect to eventually get it into the 11s. It won't break my heart if I ventilate the block... been contemplating a swap to a late model engine, possibly even a non-GM power plant.

"You're not an enthusiast, you're just a driver. You have no appreciation for the history of the Corvette, and you have no idea what takes to own and maintain one." -

Anonymous NCRS member encountered at a local show.

I couldn't agree more...

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Sounds interesting. What are your ideas? (Please don't say Cummings )

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I'm considering a Lexus drivetrain. I have a friend that swaps Lexus engines into all his street rods. So far he's done: (2) 1934 Fords 1 V8 and 1 supercharged V6; a Packard Convertible, and his current project is a 57 Chevy Truck.

Sounds perfect!

Apparently, the pre2005 V8's are the best?

I'm not sure about the different generation of Lexus engines. It would be a matter of what I could get the cheapest, and how the accessories matched with the chassis. My wife is wanting me to swap a stock LSx engine, so that option is on the table too.

Either the Lexus or LSx swap would require swapping the front suspension to a rack and pinion kit, so I could use side engine mounts. On a stock C1, the engine mount is between the water pump and the block...

Any late model swap would have to meet the following criteria: 20+ MPG, 12.5 or quicker in the 1/4 mile, relatively cheap, and offend those that need offending...

What no boosted Vtech?

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I moded most of my previous C2's including my 63 Z06.
I used to go to the NCRS meetings with Chip Miller. But there were moded Vettes that showed up in the parking lot.
But there are azzhats everywhere. Not just the NCRS or the Corvette Club shows or the forums.
Go to the C5 section in CF and mention you have a C4.
Go to the marina and my friend will tell you how much better his boat is because it's parked beside one that's 2 feet shorter.
Mention that you like AFR heads here.

Or tell me that you think Spec Miatas are great race cars.

Hey thats a great story Wes. Good to hear there are still guys like yourself out there that do the right thing. Part of the reason I dropped CF like a bad habbit and moved over here was because of all the help I received from most of the frequent posters on here today, that helped me out when I needed it most; when I was caught up in an expensive jamb! When they left CF there was no reason to be over there any longer.

Its amazing how many bad shops there are out there. I've run into a few recently myself with the rear end on my Impala. Glad I had the guts to do my 4L60E myself; you know what, it works perfectly!

Hey, is this guy on the Guru Site??? You should get him on here... plenty of good information to still go around!

Good Story,

DG