E85 making cents [Forums - Off Topic]

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BrianCunningham	E85 making cents	#1
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091223/CARNEWS/912229990 Quote: Overall, E85 use cut our fuel economy to 12.3 mpg--a reduction of 16.3 percent versus unleaded (though with no noticeable effect on vehicle power or performance). But thanks to significant E85 cost savings, our loss of fuel economy was offset by a commensurate 16.7 percent reduction in fuel cost.
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 17:59
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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pianoguy	Re: E85 making cents	#2
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	I was noticing the huge disparity in price yesterday - regular was 2.65 and E85 was somewhere around 2.05.
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 18:12
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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bogus	Re: E85 making cents	#3
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	it's the only way to make E85 palatable to the non-environmentalists.
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 18:25
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CentralCoaster	Re: E85 making cents	#4
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	What it fails to mention is that federal subsidies pay for over 50 cents per gallon of the ethanol. So basically the government already took that much of it out of your wallet before you even got to the gas station.
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 18:52
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BrianCunningham	Re: E85 making cents	#5
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	and how much $$$ is going overseas when you buy a gallon of gas?
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 20:00
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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Sweet90	Re: E85 making cents	#6
Elite Guru Edmonton, Alberta 1143 Posts Member since: 2009/2/10 19:32	Quote: BrianCunningham wrote: and how much $$$ is going overseas when you buy a gallon of gas? I didn't realize we were overseas now :toothy3: Jim
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 20:11
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Ultraman	Re: E85 making cents	#7
2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner! Huskerland 14746 Posts Member since: 2009/9/12 19:16	I was glad to read that article. Being from Nebraska and within a few miles of 4 ethenol plants it would be good to have this stuff more widely accesable. I bought a year end deal Tahoe with the flex fuel 5.3 engine in it and sorry to say have not even used it in my own vehicle yet. We have two outlets for E85 here in town. I do know it has real high octain and would work well in higher compresion engines as long as everything is set up for it. I hear it is very corrosive. As far as the subsidies are concerned the Government has always subsidized farming. With the decent commodity prices at this time the farmers are not getting the big price support checks that they normally get. I would rather see subsidies go to this type of thing.
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 20:24
	_________________ 2010 Grand Sport Coupe Gone but not forgotten... Vote DeSantis in 2024.... Make the IRS go away...
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Matatk	Re: E85 making cents	#8
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22805 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Around here E85 isn't that much cheaper, so it doesn't make such sense. Did you read some of the comments on that article? Quote: cardijp wrote: The conclusion I'm getting from this article is that E85 is still a publicity stunt for eco-posers. Wait until E85 does start becoming more available at stations around the country. Then you will see liberals fighting for taxes on gasoline to artificially inflate its price to make E85 the artificial smart buy at the pump. I don't mind people trying to save the world from what they believe to be a threat; just don't take my money doing it. CARL CODE wrote: Good grief, Bob, you didn't mention E-85's capacity for retention of water in your politically correct article on this inefficient fuel. Let's see, how can we make sense of this? Why not inflate the price of corn by creating a tax subsidized market for it. Tell everyone they are being nice to the planet by sqaundering fertilizer, fuel and water tilling acres of otherwise productive land to raise grain that won't be used to feed any of the planets starving, then spend the energy required to refine it and then sell the end product for just a tad less than they can buy real efficient gasoline. If the requisite Farm Lobby's tax incentive was eliminated though, the whole idea would "Flame Out".
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 23:10
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flyboy	Re: E85 making cents	#9
Elite Guru Westmont, Il. 2632 Posts Member since: 2008/9/28 12:47	In other words, it's a huge hoax. I move we make it E100, bottle it, and sell it at the same price per gallon. It would be great in the New Year's Eve punch bowl.
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 23:22
	_________________ '91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em"
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pianoguy	Re: E85 making cents	#10
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	Yep, it is a shell game.
	Posted on: 2009/12/29 23:42
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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BrianCunningham	Re: E85 making cents	#11
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	say what you want, it's still a great racing fuel I wish there were more stations around here. alcohol loves BOOST
	Posted on: 2009/12/30 14:12
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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CentralCoaster	Re: E85 making cents	#12
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Quote: Ultraman wrote: I would rather see subsidies go to this type of thing. Subsidy = behavior tax. I'd rather not see any subsidies at all. Let supply and demand dictate which energy sources are used. If a small minority think they are saving the planet by buying ethanol, let them pay more, but don't force me to.
	Posted on: 2009/12/30 16:55
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Ultraman	Re: E85 making cents	#13
2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner! Huskerland 14746 Posts Member since: 2009/9/12 19:16	Farming is one of the only businesses that the producer does not get to set his end price. It is dictated to him by supply and demand. Yet his input prices are set by his suppliers of Chemicals and seed and fertilizer. We would all be better off if there was no subsidies but it has been put in place to keep the large swings of the pendulum in check. Farmers for the most part don't want handouts, they want an honest pay for a days work and the Govt wants cheap food prices. The idea that there are folks starving to death in other parts of the world because we are putting corn to use for ethenol is BS. The mash is still being used to feed cattle, the cobs are ground up to make all kinds of stuff and now they are buying the corn residue to pelletize and inject into the coal fired electrical plants to make what comes out the stacks cleaner. Other then a few totillas, what can you do with a bushel of number 2 yellow to feed people? We just borrow the starch and sugars to make some shine. Most of the countries that have hunger problems are so corrupt that the bad guys control the people by controlling the food sources. Using our corn to make fuel isn't going to change that. The fuel is ineficient, not doubt, but so is the energy required to crack a gallon of crude. It is another fuel source that is produced locally and is an alternative to overseas oil. Whoever controls it will tax it and us. It is not the answer long term but it keeps a lot of folks employed at present and gives the farmer another place to sell his grain. Nobody is squandering fertilizer,fuel or water tilling acres that are better served going elsewere. We are closing in on 300 bu/acre corn production here in the corn belt with the advances in seed tech and genetics leading the way. Gone are the days of flinging deadly chemical around with airplanes because the protection is in the seed. We do spray fungicides yet but that too shall go away in a few years. They are coming to market with drought corn that will raise the same amount of corn as we now do only with a lot less water. We have monster piles of corn around here that will all be gone by next year and a lot of it goes on unit trains and is sent to the Great Lakes for shipping to other markets than ethenol. Ok kids thanks, the rant is now officially over.
	Posted on: 2009/12/30 19:08
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CentralCoaster	Re: E85 making cents	#14
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	The genetically altered corn isn't even edible now until it goes through all the processing, nor is it nutritious. Honestly ethanol is about all it's good for anymore. One argument is that the energy required to produce ethanol from corn has a worse impact on the environment than processing crude. We've got lots of crude that isn't being touched. And we have an assload of natural gas resources. Not sure why that isn't utilized more.
	Posted on: 2009/12/30 23:19
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Ultraman	Re: E85 making cents	#15
2015 Memorial Day Car Show Winner! Huskerland 14746 Posts Member since: 2009/9/12 19:16	Or just let them drill offshore and get the shale oil headed to the refineries. We do have pipelines going through the area that will carry that to the processing plants. And what about the windpower thing, we have several wind farms coming into Nebraska. Those towers and generators are pricy. I think power will come from a lot of sources in the future. They do have corn that is especially for ethenol plants that is taking off next year my seed people tell me. Appreciate your thoughts.
	Posted on: 2009/12/30 23:46
	_________________ 2010 Grand Sport Coupe Gone but not forgotten... Vote DeSantis in 2024.... Make the IRS go away...
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Matatk	Re: E85 making cents	#16
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22805 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Quote: Ultraman wrote: And what about the windpower thing, we have several wind farms coming into Nebraska. Those towers and generators are pricy. I think power will come from a lot of sources in the future. Windmills will be the energy sources of the future, along with solar farms, IMHO. As they are more readily available and people invest more research dollars into them, the prices will drop. I think eventually homes will run off of their own solar paneled roofs, with power companies/infrastructure in place as a back up. Look at computers. Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 14:00
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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Sweet90	Re: E85 making cents	#17
Elite Guru Edmonton, Alberta 1143 Posts Member since: 2009/2/10 19:32	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: And we have an assload of natural gas resources. Not sure why that isn't utilized more. Play on words Kevin Jim
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 16:45
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CentralCoaster	Re: E85 making cents	#18
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Quote: Matatk wrote: Windmills will be the energy sources of the future, along with solar farms, IMHO. Wind and solar are two free forms of energy, yet are the most expensive to produce. But yeah, as technology marches on, it will be cheaper to harness, and as price of fossil fuels rise, it will start becoming more cost effective to use solar and wind. I understand the intent of incentives... it's to invest in a new technology, basically paying for the groundwork because the oil producers won't. They are easily abused and manipulated though.
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 17:01
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Matatk	Re: E85 making cents	#19
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22805 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Wind and solar are two free forms of energy, yet are the most expensive to produce. At this point. But the cost has been coming down already. Hence my analogy to computers. How big was a computer in 1970. How much did it cost? Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 19:46
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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CentralCoaster	Re: E85 making cents	#20
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Quote: Matatk wrote: At this point. But the cost has been coming down already. Hence my analogy to computers. How big was a computer in 1970. How much did it cost? Matthew A bunch. But the government didn't use your tax dollars to print coupons for computer purchases. The development was demand driven (yeah, including government contracts), but there was a profit to be made, so naturally, private industry invested their money in it. Ethanol on the otherhand, has no demand because it is inferior and more expensive than the alternatives. Nobody would touch it if the government wasn't giving out coupons at the pump. It also isn't a long term answer and therefore isn't worth spending my tax dollars on to subsidize it's development.
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 20:07
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Matatk	Re: E85 making cents	#21
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22805 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Quote: Matatk wrote: At this point. But the cost has been coming down already. Hence my analogy to computers. How big was a computer in 1970. How much did it cost? Matthew A bunch. But the government didn't pay for part of it. If you couldn't afford it, you went without and found another way to get your work done. Of course they did! The government, in fact the military specifically, saw the vast benefits of the computer. The internet itself was intended for use as a national security network. http://www.msichicago.org/scrapbook/s ... ibits/commex/history.html http://www.dia.eui.upm.es/asignatu/sis_op1/comp_hd/comp_hd.htm Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 20:27
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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Matatk	Re: E85 making cents	#22
Webmaster SW Chicago Burbs 22805 Posts Member since: 2008/1/7 0:00	No fair editing your answer while I'm posting But I agree that ethanol is a short sighted solution and has no long term impact. Matthew
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 20:28
	_________________ 2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP
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BrianCunningham	Re: E85 making cents	#23
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Nobody would touch it if the government wasn't giving out coupons at the pump. Nobody?
	Posted on: 2009/12/31 21:50
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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