Got my hand almost back to 100% now. So I washed and drove the vette today for the first time in 4 months.

Observations... my LCD lettering seems faded, not the backlight, the numbers themselves... odd.

A/C didn't work, till 10 minutes into the drive when it started working heh..

And the clutch did not repair itself. SO.. I'm gonna keep a running log of my adventures in repair now that I can drive my baby again.

I need some opinions along the way, and I know this forum has plenty

Already have the FW, picked up a used for 2k miles SM Spec Steel for a song on the devil forum from a fella who converted to manual, hated it, and was switching back haha.

SO, I need.. clutch and PP, hydraulics, fluids (that's gonna get heated) , Hurst short throw, new knob, shift boot.

For the clutch I'm leaning to the Spec Stage 2, opinions appreciated.

For the hydraulics, I'm thinking about the Dorman parts from Rockauto, as they all look to be cast.

Fluids, I'm thinking GM from all my reading, as the TWS has some people complaining.

Sticking with the Hurst shifter, as I've driven a B&M vette and it was very notchy.

Gonna be a pretty slow project because of $$$ issues from Doc bills and not working for 3 months, probably gonna scrape together a part or 2 a week.

Fire away Gurus!!!

~Rich

Can't help you much with the LCD, Rich. As far as the A/C, what wasn't working? It didn't turn on at all, or it was only blowing through the defrost? Did you do the self diagnostics on the head unit? I also recall on the 96 MY there was a different a/c controller that used rubber nipples instead of plastic that tend to collapse under vacuum. Something to look into.

Matthew

I can recommend the SPEC Stage 2. I used one in Nolands car (96 383LT4 420+RWHP) and he has almost 20K miles on it now. It's holding up fine and you wouldn't know it from a stock clutch to drive in traffic. He has the same SPEC SM steel FW as you... if you have any cam at all the ZF is going to rattle.

I've thankfully never had to fool with replacing a slave yet, so I don't which replacements are the best.

I run Castrol TWS 10W60 in my 92 and Noland runs the GM Pennzoil Synchromesh in his 96... Both work fine but I've seen the reports of cars that don't like TWS. I don't know what to tell you.

I have the Hurst in my 92 and when we built Nolands 96 I talked him in to a Hurst as well. Great shifter.

Glad to see your getting better. I know about not driving your car. Between traveling for work and bad weather my 92 has been sitting for over a month.
Will

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Good to hear about your hand, Rich.

I have about 15k mi, 3+ years on TWS.

Smoother shifts when I put it in but (obviously) it replaced old oil, so I can't compare to GM.

I don't think it makes much of a difference either way.
There's too much hype on the web.

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Compressor wasn't engaging. I do fear the rubber nipples.... that sounded naughty.

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GREAT info Will, glad to hear a recommendation for the Spec stage 2, no cam yet, all that shall come after maintenance heh..

Shocked you haven't had to mess with a slave.

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With both reports here on TWS, I'm wondering if there is a difference between Black and Blue tags and them agreeing with the TWS fluid.

Thanks a ton for the info, and all the well wishes guys!

~Rich

Been a while since an update (work has been painfully slow)

Just ordered my Hurst shifter from ZRChris. One more piece of the puzzle on it's way.

Now to decide on a sexy knob.

What kind of power are you making?

I haven't ever used the spec stuff on a ZF6, but I've done a ton of clutches on our cars.

Since you have the spec flywheel, I'd go ahead with their clutch. If you didn't have anything, I would recommend the centerforce dual friction with the Centerforce steel flywheel. That's what I have now, and I like it. I've used a McLeod twin, and while it drove like a dream, it was brutal beyond belief if you were dogging the car.

A few years ago there was a company in California that was making stock replacement clutch disks. You could get a stock one, or a hardened one. I don't really know what they meant by 'hardened' but I used one of those for awhile in a 92 Corvette and really liked it. However, since you don't have the dual mass it's a moot point.

You can get the cast replacement hydrualic parts through CarQuest. They have one part number for the slave, and sometimes the box will have a plastic one in it and sometimes it will have a cast one in it. Just have the parts guy open boxes until he finds a cast one.

On the master, the parts guy will probably tell you it isn't available. Have him take the CarQuest part number and cross it in the WorldPac system. It will cross over, and that part is a cast unit.

Be sure to take both units apart and clean the bores. I've done over 20 clutch hydraulic jobs and every single time the bores on both the slave and master were full of debris. You can also double check the orientation of the seal in the slave.

If you use a cast slave, you'll have to use new nuts with no flange on them (the OE nuts are flanged) or grind a bit on the slave so that a socket will fit between the nut and the slave. I don't recall the thread size at the moment.

I prefer the B&M shifter, but anything is a huge improvement over stock.

I think my transmission shifts better with the GM fluid VS the Castrol, but it could just be the placebo effect. If you want the Castrol/BMW fluid, you can get it in a 5 quart container from CarQuest. It's quite a bit cheaper that way, and it's enough for 2 changes. Take them the BMW part number and have them cross it in WorldPac. Last time I got some it was $39 for the 5 qt. bottle.

WOW Josh, that is some fantastic info!

Right now I'm making right around 330 WHP, after the clutch I want to eventually get around to heads, cam, EWP, few others, so I'm looking for something to hold around 400 WHP to be on the safe side.

I've been debating on Spec stage 2, vs Centerforce DF, vs, Carolina Clutch stage 2. Trying to find what has more horror stories heh.

I had no idea carquest had the cast parts, I was just planning on ordering through ROckAuto, but thanks SO much for the useful hydraulic info. I have a feeling it will make life a ton easier down the road not having to replace them again.. and again.. heh.

I've driven a B&M and a Hurst car, I liked the Hurst a bit better, B&M was super short which I liked, but the shift effort was a bit too high for traffic cruising to me.

Glad to get another opinion on the fluid, I'm starting to think I'm gonna use GM.

Thanks again soo much man. That's why I love ya'll here



~Rich

i have a stage 3 carolina clutch and its been great although i feel its a little harsh on the drivetrain its never slipped once. and i got a slave from autozone that was cast just to have one incase the shit one i have goes bad.

Counting horror stories based on clutch brand is tough... Most of the problems are either install related, or related to the hydraulic system. Inevitably, the clutch hard parts get blamed and then ranted and raved about on the forums. Then, it turns out the real issue was the jack ass that didn't realize righty-tighty / lefty-lucy wasn't applicable to the pivot ball/stud; but that never gets talked about.

As long as I was using new parts, I never had a problem that could be attributed to the pressure plate, disk, or flywheel. Have I had problems, sure, but it was always do to my own idiocy or failing/failed hydraulics.

The lock bolt in the pivot stud, the FSM gives a torque value of 23 Ft. Lbs. (if memory serves); well, you'll break it off if you try that. Bleeding the hydraulics using the dumb ass bleeder valve on the slave instead of filling the system through the bleeder. Flanged nuts that can't be tightened down appropriately on a cast slave. That's the stuff that messes people up on their first go-around with the ZF6. I would bet that 99% of the horror stories you read are really related to those things, and not hard parts.

If it were me, I would sell your SPEC stuff and grab the CF dual friction. That's only because I've had such good luck with the Center Force units though. My car makes about 425 and the Center Force hasn't ever complained. I also like how I can launch it at a lower RPM and it will slip some until the RPM's come up. It really helps to cushion the rear end from the shock of a clutch dump.

Jonescap and I put a Centerforce DF in his 96 about 2 years ago. His is a stock-ish LT4 with a 150 HP shot of nitrous. It made 498 RWHP on the gas. He was launching the car on the bottle, lifting the front wheels, cutting mid 1.5's (with a best of 1.51) on all the STOCK rear end parts and never broke anything. The only change from stock was the 4.09 gears. Stock half shafts, stock spindles, and parts store U-joints. Nothing fancy at all. I attribute his good luck to 1) his driving ability, and 2) the clutch absorbing a good amount of the shock and applying the power to the rear end over time instead of all at once. Granted, the time period from clutch drop until the rear end was seeing all 500 HP was probably less than a tenth, but applying that power over a tenth is infinitely better than smacking the rear instantly with full engine power.

A CF dual friction wont work with my Spec FW?

Only reason I ask is I am doing this on a fairly tight budget and picked up the FW for $150, and there is a dual friction that was used for all of 10 hours for sale over on satan's forum

Found this on the Centerforce FAQ


The Patented Centerforce Clutch System Does Not Require Using A Special Type Of Flywheel. Our Friction Materials Are Designed To Be Used With The Stock Flywheel, Aftermarket Steel Billet Flywheels, Or Aluminum Flywheels With Steel Insert Heat Shields. However Centerforce Does Not Recommend The Use Of Aluminum Flywheels For Street Use. If You Are Replacing Your Stock O.E.M. Flywheel, Be Sure That The New Flywheel Meets The Same Specifications, Such As Ring Gear Tooth Count, Flywheel Thickness, Ring Gear Offset, Etc. All Centerforce Flywheels Are Designed To Meet Standard O.E.M. Specifications, And Are S.F.I. Approved.







The only thing is knowing that the ZF6 is a fairly different beast when clutches are concerned I figured I'd still await response here or call centerforce tomorrow

I don't know if the SPEC flywheel will work with the DF or not. If you could get some dimensions from Centerforce on their flywheel, and then measure yours you could figure it out.

Is the SPEC balanced to match the DM?

yeah, the Spec is matched

Got my shifter today..

It's all.... shifty... hell I dunno, its a stick of black billet till I get it in the car lol

Need opinions here.

NEW Spec Stage 2 : $450

NEW Carolina Clutch Stage 2: $450

Centerforce Dual Friction Used for 10 hours: $365

WELL USED Mcleoud Super Street Pro: $25 (not a typo)

Just sent payment for the 10 hour centerforce. Still has the damn stickers on it

oh also, anyone know of a company that makes or can make a custom shift knob? I have an idea

Seems like my well of information here is drying up haha.

Wondering what I should be expecting as far as a labor charge to get this box of stuff in the car? I don't have access to alldata anymore to get the time from there.

To be installed..

Clutch, Flywheel, Pressure plate, throwout bearing
Clutch master and slave cylinders
Tranny fluids
Hurst shifter install (figured it'd be a lot easier with the tranny out)
rear main seal
unscrewing and screwing in my new reverse lamp switch

That's all for now, unless my Guru's can tell me any other "while you're in there" items.

~Rich

7th concurrent post!!! lol


I remember several nightmare stories recently on throwout bearings, anyone find a good source yet?

~Rich

I would think 10 hours of labor for all that, maybe a tick more.

I have heard of people breaking distributor caps when they take out the C-beam and let the weight of the transmission hang on the motor. Sometimes there is enough flex in the motor mounts for the cap to hit the firewall. It's never happened to me, but that's one more thing that can go wrong.

Awhile back, a guy hired me to do a clutch and a cam in his 96 C4. I did the clutch first, then the cam. It turns out one of the cam bearings was spinning in the block, so the motor had to be pulled and sent back to the builder. The builder fixed the motor, and I put it back in. I've never been able to get the pilot bearing to align if I leave the motor in the car, so I ended up pulling the transmission twice for the guy. All in all, the process for me was:

-Trans out, flywheel and clutch in, new clutch hyraulics in.
-Cam out. Bearing problem discovered.
-Trans out, again.
-Motor out.
-Motor in.
-Trans in.

I think I ended up charging the guy about $900. I probably had 40 hours in the stupid thing, so it worked out to about $20 an hour.

Thanks a bunch for the info, 10 hours is longer than I expected to be honest, so I'll be expecting the higher quotes now that I've heard it.


That sounds like a nightmare mang. You were really really fair and cheap with the guy.

Wish I had some local Guru's to support.

Pep Boys or some other rinky dink shop can tell you what the labor guide says for the clutch swap. Or maybe someone on here has access to Mitchell 1.

The clutch looks great.

Thanks Josh!

Clutch got here today, looks identical to the pics.

Sat it on top of my FW and there is a gap between the FW and PP where the bolt holes are.. normal since it's not torqued?

Also, got a quote from the local dealership for the install minus the Hurst, $750.

Not bad, stilll gonna call around