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demco307 | just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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Just cranked new engine today for a little bit, need some info. Upon cranking for first time engine wont Idle, I assume that Maybe Valves need adjusting, I tried to preset them without shooting oil everywhere. Question #1 could valves be too tight? also I decided to start removing alternator and other stuff to get ready to adjust valves when I noticed That the flaps in the tpis throttle body looked to be closed. could this be a good reason for not wanting to idle? should flaps in TB be open a little or does it get air from IAC? Havent ran it but about couple minuts or so total. any suggestions would be greatly appreaciated. THANKS Darren
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Posted on: 2010/12/26 22:53
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BrianCunningham | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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Did you pull any codes?
I'd check all the connections. Does the new engine have a non-stock cam in it? |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 0:07
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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Calm | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Senior Guru
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I agree with Brian.....check all connections. Especially the IAC circuit. Yes, it's normal for the throttle blades to be closed (or virtually closed) at idle as the IAC provides the correct air volume for idle. May be worth re-setting the IAC also. Mis-adjusted valves would definately cause a no-idle condition. Sorry, but the oil splash will be worth it! What I would do is dis-assemble to VC's, then start and clamp it to fast idle. Then do a very rough (and slightly loose) lash adjustment. (Your non-idle is likely from a few over-tightened intakes.) Then remove clamp to 8 - 900 idle and re-adjust all valves carefully. 1/2 turn down from zero lash is what I do. Good luck! And keep the simple green handy. -Rod |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 0:44
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1995 Forged 385 ZF6 227/234 1.6 FIC30# MSD BBK SS SLP Bullets X-Pipe DynoMax |
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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its not a stock cam,but I was told to adjust intake valve just as the exhaust valve on same cylinder started to move which I did ,but I adjusted the exhaust after the intake of the same cylinder went down and came up. I was suppose to adjust exhaust valve when intake goes down an just starts to come up, so I think My valves are off. does this sound correct?
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 1:10
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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Forgot to add, Checked codes and computer is not showing any,also engine seems to rev up just fine. when I let off gas it kinda wants to idle just for a second and dies. By the way how do you reset the IAC. Thanks
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 1:17
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BrianCunningham | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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What's the spec on the cam?
Are you running the stock chip? What's the idle set to? |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 1:21
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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bogus | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I would revisit the valve adjustment procedure. If you didn't follow their instructions, you are risking issues.
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 1:38
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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Cam specs are adv dur. INT274 EXH282 Duration@50 224INT 230EXH Valve lift 538INT 534EXH with 112.0 Lobe sep. With 1.6 rockers I think lift is around 573 on INT. Tune was don by pcm for less which I chose until I can break engine in properly before dyno.Ive looked a little tonight about valve adjustments an they also said to adjust int just as exhaust starts to open an adjust exhaust when intake starts to close or closes about a third.when I set them out of the car I did intake like it said but the exhaust I waited unti intake came all the way back up,or closed which I think I was wrong. By what ive stated do yall thinks its my valves like I do. THANKS
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 1:56
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Calm | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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Yes. I do. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 2:14
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1995 Forged 385 ZF6 227/234 1.6 FIC30# MSD BBK SS SLP Bullets X-Pipe DynoMax |
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Matatk | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Webmaster
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I prefer a simpler method to adjust the valves, which I used on my motor. You need to find TDC of cylinder 1 and then only turn the motor one more time for 360* to get the other valves. I think it is easier.
1) Find TDC of cylinder #1. 2) Make sure the exhaust rocker for the #1 cylinder is just starting to open. 3) Adjust intake rockers on #1, #2, #5, #7. 4) Adjust exhaust rockers on #1, #3, #4, #8. 5) Rotate engine 360*. 6) Adjust intake rockers on #3, #4, #6, #8. 7) Adjust exhaust rockers on #2, #5, #6, #7. To find zero lash, you should be twisting the pushrod with your finger and thumb until you feel a slight drag. Then tighten the rocker nut 1/2-1 turn past that. Some say for modified motors with less clearance, use 1/2 turn, for stock motors use 1 turn. I used 3/4. Good luck, Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 14:21
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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flyboy | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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Yup. That's the method in the FSM.
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 14:26
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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dan0617 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Senior Guru
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Turn engine using bolt on front of crank with a big ratchet and socket until the #1 cylinder is on the compression stroke (both valves closed, you can put both rocker arms on the #1 cylinder finger tight and neither will be down farther than the other) and the timing pointer lines up with the 0 on the balancer.
Adjust exhaust valves 1,3,4,8 and intake valves 1,2,5,7. I like to find 0 lash then go 1/2 turn of preload. (As a side note, since the engine is at TDC on the #1 compression stroke, this is a good time to check and make sure the distributor is installed correctly if you had it removed. Make sure the rotor is pointing at the terminal in the cap that has the #1 spark plug wire hooked to it, and make sure the other spark plug wires follow the firing order around the distributor). Turn the crank 1 full revolution, so the timing pointer again lines up with the 0 on the balancer. Adjust exhaust valves 2,5,6,7 and intake valves 3,4,6,8 can be adjusted. Now you are done and will not have to adjust valves with the engine running. No reason you need to adjust valves with the engine running on a hyd. lifter engine. EDIT: Looks like Matthew and I were typing at the same time. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 14:26
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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biggrizzly | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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This is the method I have used with great success. There are several methods you will find posted online, but I really think this is the easiest way for me. Lloyd Elliot recommended only doing 1/2 turn past 0 lash, but I'm like Matt and think 3/4 turn is a bit more insurance. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 18:06
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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Calm | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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What can I say?
We in Western Canada like to spill oil. Where do you think the Alberta Tar Sands came from? |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 18:27
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1995 Forged 385 ZF6 227/234 1.6 FIC30# MSD BBK SS SLP Bullets X-Pipe DynoMax |
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Guru
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Reset valves,engin wants to idle. have to open throttle blades a little an hold to idle.cranks better,revs up good.Havent set yet but my brother said he set the gaps but I just checked them an their on about .039 to ..040, I think the correct gap is around .050. havent reset yet but could this be the problem? also had running earlier and disconnected the iac connector and didnt have to hold flaps open as much to idle.I think the valves are correct now. one more thing to add,does the new tpis throttle screw need to be adjusted? does the iac valve need to be adjusted for the TB. THANKS
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 23:01
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Livin_the_dream | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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Some of us in PA adjust valves the same way! I still have a car cover that has an oil stain from the oil. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 23:22
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Livin_the_dream | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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did you check and set your timing? |
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 23:25
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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On Mine which is a 93 corvette,The distributor only splines in one way. My engine builder set the valve timing.the only other thing I may have to check is the msd opti it has a timing adjustment but Im not sure where its suppose to be set.Im beginning to think that its the iac valve or maybe the spark plug gaps.I changed the iac connector and the map sensor connector its possible I may have crossed something.
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Posted on: 2010/12/27 23:34
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dan0617 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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I know nothing about timing on an opti, but if it can be set get it set. Then, do a search on the IAC, it might need reset. Depending on the size of your cam, you might need to adjust the throtle adjustment screw until you get the IAC counts down around 20. I had to do that to get a good smooth idle on my setup. You would need to datalog to see the IAC counts.
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 1:02
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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bogus | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I meant to say: you don't have to set the TPS on an LT1. See BillH's comment below on how to set the TPS. The rest of this post is correct. I didn't want to leave the misleading info in case someone in the future saw this. Even with timing adjustment on the MSD opti, it is only 5 or 10 degrees or something to that effect. He is correct, the timing is set by the opti fitment, and there is only one way to install it on the 92/93/94 LT1. It now makes me wonder if the timing chain is off a tooth or two... |
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 4:36
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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every thing as far as timing should be correct.I had the engine built by a very good engine shop,whom has been in buisness for years,also I was there when he was building.
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 7:55
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bogus | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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just making sure....
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 8:35
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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dan0617 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Senior Guru
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I'm gonna go with yes on this one. Sounds like all else is fine now, just need to get the idle set right. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 14:11
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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BillH | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
The Stig Moderator
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Since you disconnected the IAC when the engine was running, it needs to be reset. If you had the IAC out, did you move the pintal at all? It should measure 28mm from the point of the pintal to the mounting surface. Just a check but it's not good to move the pintal. To reset: Depress the accelrator pedal slightly. Start the engine, release the pedal and run the engine 5 seconds. Turn the iginition off for 10 seconds. Restart and check idle. I'm a tad confused on the tpis throttle screw, are you refering to the stop screw on the throttle body? If so, it was set at the factory ans shouldn't be touched. If the throttle position sensor (TPS) is new, there's a way to calibrate it but this requires a Tech 1 tool and it's mostly for the ASR/ABS to learn the new TPS voltages. It may not affect the idle thing. The other possibilities are a vacuum problem at the IAC or clogged IAC ports in the throttle body. Idle has nothing to do with the screw on the throttle body for the butterflys. Idle is controled buy the ECM looking at the IAC pintal position, throttle position, PVC flow and vacuum flow thru the IAC bypass. The timing adjustment on the MSD shouldn't be played with, I'm not even sure why MSD put it there since timing is controled at all times by the ECM. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 15:00
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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dan0617 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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If the car is mostly stock this is correct, but I have found, especially with larger than stock camshafts, you might need to adjust the throttle blade screw to get the IAC to be mostly closed to get it to idle correctly. Every setup is different so you may or may not need to do this. When you said new tpis throttle screw, I assumed that you have a new throttle body from tpis and assumed that it would not be preset for your combo. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 16:57
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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bogus | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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my bad... I got my acronyms mixed up... hate it when that happens. It's the TPS that doesn't need adjusted. The instructions above are correct. I will fix my prior post so it won't screw anyone up in the future. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 18:33
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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BillH | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
The Stig Moderator
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I haven't run into thet Dan, but it's certainly possible. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/28 20:27
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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What should the idle be on this cam size? the computer seems like its trying to adjust but when it gets around 1100 to 1000 its like you shut the air off or doing something to timing to comphensate for idle. also didnt mention earlier that Im cranking it without transmission installed, did this to check seals for leaks before installing,I wouldnt think this would make a diffrence would it? also I never had a high performance engine before so I dont know about the idle,I have been trying to get it about 800 or so. Darren
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Posted on: 2010/12/30 1:32
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dan0617 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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I just went up the thread and saw your cam specs. You should be able to get idle at 750 rpms pretty easy, maybe even lower. I have a 230/236 cam on a 110 LSA and have a real nice 800 rpm idle. I did have to turn the idle screw till my IAC counts got down below about 20. Had to shut the car off, restart it, and readjust a few times till I got it to stay below or around 20.
I'd first reset the IAC as described above. If it still isn't idling right try to get set up with a datalog setup so you can watch the IAC counts. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/30 1:51
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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I was just wondering,I can get a good idle at around 1200 rpms now,but Ive been trying to get around 800. tell me if this makes since.without transmission installed I have no load on engine which in reality the rpms should be higher so that when transmission is installed it should drop down a good bit,correct? if I was able to set it at 800rpms without transmission by the time I installed it the engine wouldnt idle anymore,so if I hang with around 1200rpms with installation of transmission rpms should be close right? Darren
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Posted on: 2010/12/30 2:10
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bogus | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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No transmission? That means no torque converter/flywheel clutch assembly. That's 40lbs of shit, no matter how you cut it.
Yea, I would get the tranny in there and redo this test with a complete driveline! |
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Posted on: 2010/12/30 2:14
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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demco307 | Re: just cranked new engine, Need INFO................ | ||
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I didnt think about the transmission not being in installed until tonight,seems like im always looking at the worse case scenario if you know what I mean.I believe that this will do the trick.
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Posted on: 2010/12/30 2:31
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