is there an all inclusive tool to burn proms on a '91? (including my laptop & software?)


... so I have been waiting for the guys at extreme motorsports to give me a call back and they haven't yet...and from what I have been reading most people tend to not know what they are doing and driveability issues (which I don't understand exactly how that works yet) may need a second "opinion".

- lost and confused on finishing this job.

There are options... tunercat, Craig Moates... those names are swimming in my brain...

If nothing else, you can send it to PCM's For Less. They have a pretty good rep. Also, one of our members, mseven, does good work.

I hate to ask a dumb question... but if I send it to a forum member, do it myself, or pay PCM'sforless to do it, are they all within about 5% of each other in reality?

I mean, is there any real significant difference between me buying all the stuff and learning how to do it, and me paying someone to do it? - will the end result be about exactly the same?

what's the difference in the options? - have you ever tuned one yourself? how long did it take you from start to finish?

You need to be able to pull the data from the PCM. Most of us use Datamaster http://www.ttspowersystems.com/

In order to do that you will need an ALDL cable. I bought mine from www.moates.net

In order to put the chips on the board inside the PCM you need an adapter that Moates sells also. Then in order to burn to the chip you will need either the burn1 or the ostrich from moates. They also have the APU1 which looks like it might do everything but it's $329 which at the time I started was too rich for my wallet.

If you learn to do it yourself you will be able to change the tune for whatever future mods you might do. I haven't learned how to do it yet.

The advantage to going to someone like Mick or Bryan or other tuners is that they have years of experience with these particular cars. They have tons of previous data and tunes to look at. I think the learning curve could be steep and if you are wanting to get in the car and drive it, the better option is to let someone that has done it hundreds or thousands of times take the guesswork out of it for you.

You will need the ALDL cable, a laptop, and a tuning program like Datamaster or Tunercat to read the car. To get the changes into the car, you will either need a zif adapter and chip burner, or an ostrich emulator which is what Jeff mentioned. If I were doing it myself, I would have an ostrich. But someone else burns my chips so I just have a zif adapter. These things get pricey when you add them all up.

As far as tuning yourself vs having someone else do it who knows what they are doing....well, do you want to blow up your engine because you put in the wrong fuel table? That's why I don't tune mine. Guys who do their own usually have better running cars in the long run because they will tweak it 75-100 times before totally done. But the learning curve is very steep to know what you're doing.

Matthew

Quote:
http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-p ... ersion-p-54.html?cPath=31

If you only want to program chips
http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-programmer-p-197.html?cPath=31

You will also need a seperate cable to datalog using software as mentioned above as noted above ( which you don't need with the APU1 unit)
http://www.aldlcable.com/

In any case regardless were you get your chip from you need this adapter to install the custom chip in the ECM
http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm- ... -chips-p-41.html?cPath=31

I tried many times, never could "pull" the data. My tuner had problems, too, data stream would go in and out, but did have success. Car runs great. I'll do the mechanical mods, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time in a futile effort to datalog/tune. Leaving it to the pro.
I drove, he sat in the passenger seat with the computer, burned several chips to get the drivability. Then on to the dyno for final WOT tune.

I've done this very thing with my '92.

As JeffK points out, the first thing you'll need to do is download Datamaster from TTS Power systems (http://www.ttspowersystems.com/DataMaster_downloads2.html). You'll want to be sure to download the proper version for your year and model. I believe that you can make up to 16 free scans with Datamaster before the software locks up and you have to pay to continue to use it. Sixteen scans should be enough to get the job done though.

You'll also need an ALDL cable to plug into your laptop. I have the USB unit from here: http://www.aldlcables.com/

Whatever tuner you choose to work with will likely give you instructions on creating a base data log file which you will give or e-mail to them. From there, they will likely send you back a .bin file as your first baseline tune.

To get the baseline tune installed in your car, you'll need a chip burner (I used this one from Moates.net: http://www.moates.net/burn2-chip-programmer-p-197.html) and a blank chip (I bought two of these for my '92, and I believe they should be the same for your '91: http://www.moates.net/c2-sst-27sf512-chip-p-39.html). The pins on these chips are a bit soft, which is why I bought two blank chips in case I buggered one up. To do the actual burn process, you'll need "Flash and Burn" which is free to download from Moates.net: http://www.moates.net/flash-burn-program-for-burn1-p-67.html.

Once you have your chip burned, you'll need to install it in your ECM. I used this adapter from Moates.net: http://www.moates.net/g1-memory-adapter-tpi-etc-p-32.html. This is MUCH easier than unsoldering the original chip from your ECM board and soldering in the new chip. You just unclip your original eProm from inside your ECM (works exactly the same way as memory modules do on a personal computer), press your original eProm onto the adapter, press your new chip into the adapter, and then insert the entire adapter back into your ECM in the slot where your original eProm used to be. On my '92, I had to unbolt the ECM from its bracket, flip it upside down, and remove the access panel from the bottom. From there I was able to access my original eProm and insert the new adapter. Your '91 may be slightly different. Refer to your factory service manual if you have one. Be sure to disconnect your negative battery terminal BEFORE doing anything with your ECM.

From there, your tuner will ask you to make another data log file with Datamaster, send it to him, and you'll repeat the whole burn/install process again until you've achieved a tune you're happy with.

Unfortunately, there's really no all-inclusive tool to do this that I am aware of, and using all of the various software and hardware described above is about the only way to get it done.

Hope this helps.

Ron

http://www.moates.net/apu1-autoprom-p ... ersion-p-54.html?cPath=31

so for 330$ - plus whatever datamaster costs, I get everything I need to do this myself? am I getting that about right?

- I need to come back and reread this thread, and all associated links very carefully when I am not so distracted mentally.

- btw, does it need to have a dyno to finish the tune? or is that just for WOT tuning?

http://support.moates.net/2008/09/17/autoprom-apu1/
in real time, emulate a chip in the ecm connector, datalog it, adjust the bin files as I see fit, while im driving, and then save em. remove the emulator plug in - burn the chip to the bin file setting, reinstall the chip and be done with it. no pulling in and out of the chips over and over and over to erase and rewrite.


but I have to use TunerProRT (apparently its not perfectly compatible with datamaster). anyone ever use this software? how good is it? does it have all the options of datamaster?



http://www.moates.net/gp1-package-gm- ... -chips-p-41.html?cPath=31

im a little confused on one of these steps here... what is this again? sorry I haven't actually pulled out the chip thing yet. only thing I got is a spare blue and brown thing sitting in my consol.

Quote:

This is the adapter that lets you install the burned chip into the PCM board. I don't have a pic of mine installed.

gotcha. thanks that makes sense now.




I am ok with buying the cables, eraser, and burner. that all makes sense. I can buy it seperately or as a unit with the apu1 which also comes with an emulator program so I can just modify on the go. (assuming I ever learn how to adjust this stuff...)

if I go with PCMforless (which sounds like a good idea for a baseline tune...) i would still have to buy a cable, adapter package, eraser, and a burner.




ok so I want to order this stuff now... hopefully, if its friday and I order it all now, it should all come by sometime next week and I can start tuning it.

how do I make sure I get the right chip for the car if I buy replacement chips? :/

Quote:
As mentioned above
Chip is a 27SF512

5 for $18

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-SST- ... ories&hash=item45fbe6bbaa

mmm.... that wasn't quite what I meant.

I've been google searching for what chip i need for that car. i see the designations 1227727 or 1227730 for the 90-91 years. was a little confused about the jump from there to 27sf512. guessing the 512 is a kb measurement, but what is the 27 the last two digits of the chip series?

....

anyway, a little later today I'm going to put in a purchase for

apu1
g1
and an extra chip


thanks guys for your help, and if anyone sees anything wrong with that let me know, for the moment I am going to get some sleep lol

Quote:


WOW! Never really realized Moates.net had this. That is way cool.

I guess as long as you know what you're doing in terms of fiddling with the various parameters, this would save a ton of time.

yea. I will still try to use someone to help me for the first time I do this. trying to get ahold of mseven, sent him an email last night/this morning. if I can't get ahold of him by about middle of next week I'll just give PCMforless a phonecall and use them for a base tune//first tune on the car. then after that in the future as/if I keep modding it I will have the tools around to do it. I may open it up after I get all in and see how hard it looks. if it doesn't look that bad I may just have at it and start changing settings......

i just spent the 440 to order all the tools and ship them here online oof! :9

Quote:
'727 and '730 are the GM part numbers of the ECM ;
totally unrelated to the part# of the chip you need to fit in the G1 adapter
The adapter and chip can be used in any GM ECM with a memcal from 86 - 93

Lots of good info.

Quote:

Oof is right! Well, if you get good at it, you can start tuning cars on the side. That equipment would pay for itself.

yea.... I could, my dad mentioned the same idea to me too. but really, it's not worth it. I was just trying to get this car running first. there aren't even any tuners that will call me back lol. I have tried talking with 3 or 4 of them so far... and they are all:

"oh yea, I can help you with that. it'll be 500-600, or so though."
"fine with me, when can you fit me in?"
"uh... let me get your phone #, we'll call you back."



- speaking of which, no one here has a .bin file of a 91 SR 383 with 190cc heads and a 74219 cam shaft do they? give me a spot to start at with tuning my car.

- one other note... don't you need to install a wideband O2 sensor to tune at WOT? so you can get your AFR you want? so apparently welding on exhaust is easy?

or is WOT like a dyno only item?

just as an fyi to anyone...

if you switch the apu1 over to daatalogging mode THEN start tunerproRT, it will cause your computer to not find the APU1.

this will cause much frustration for you and cause you to make a post about it on corvette-guru.com. ;)

as an update...

the GP1 and APU1 lets you do everything you want to do...


except for get the CURRENT data off your memcal.

you can, load a new chip, burn a new chip, emulate a chip and change it on the fly... but you can't get your CURRENT chip off the PCM or whatever this little blue thingy is I have in my hand.

- for that you need their other little tool: HDR1.