Well engine #2 for the year is siezed up good.
It was a junkyard LT1 and most likely starved a little for oil on a turn, spun or fried a bearing.
Oil temp was pegged, pressure was still around 10lb but the motor is cooked, fried.

So I'm planning the rebuild of the 383 that threw a lifter (engine #1) And wondering if I should Dry sump or go with a road race pan and accusump.

In my research I found Dailey Engineering has done a dry sump for an LT1. ARE looks like they might have done it, but they aren't too clear if they have the right engineering for a Corvette.

Anyone else that does quaility Dry Sump system on a LT1?

Condolences not required - just looking for opinions.

Or I could put the regular pan on and not drive the technical tracks.






Naahhh - not going to happen. I happen to like CMP and TGPR

As you already know, dry sumps are big bucks.

I believe Jon (spectator) is getting reasonable time out of his LT1's.

Do yoy know exactly why your motor's failed?
Was the 10 psi at idle?

There's a bunch running out there with just RR pans and coolers. Do you think you were loosing oil press in the corners?

I like dry sumps a lot, run them on my open wheel.
But just a dry sump by it's self is not the answer for an oil pressure situation. That depends on how the motor is built, clearances, D/S relief valve setting,etc. I only get 12 psi with hot oil at idle.

I'm just trying to weigh all my options and was hoping the pan and pump at least would be in the "gosh that might be an option" range. Turns out its in the "Ohh my gosh, what was I thinking" range. So road race pan and accusump it will be this time.

CMP is a very technical track with lots of interesting corners. One of them I probably took at a speed I haven't gone before and the oil may have been a touch lower in the stock pan and voila instant no oil for even one revolution can kill any motor. It was 10lb at 1500/2000 rpm cause when I went to downshift for the pit entrance I got 0 rpm

Oil temps might also be an issue. If you are running in the 300• range your oil is thinner, and therefore pressures will drop.

I've NEVER had an oil issue with my 383 in 6 years. I have a Canton pan and accusump. The verdict is out on the accusump, some like it and some say it can cause motor failure if the oil pump is busy filling the sump up after it discharges and can't keep pressure.

I'm selling my whole setup once I get it out of the car. If you are interested in the pan or any parts let me know. Or even a complete longblock. The thing's bulletproof, but I'd put different heads on it since they were repaired this year due to my own stupidity.

The C4 is getting an LS.

PM me what kind of price you are thinking.
I've got LT1 heads in the shed that just need a valve job and new springs.

I think my problen this time is the stock pan and not having it sufficiently over full. I have not had an oil temp problem until the engine was on the way out.

I'm also thinking of taking my 383 and rebuilding it and taking my original 350 and rebuilding it. Just to have something to do next year because my work travel schedule is going to drastically cut into my racing schedule

Brian Cunningham went down the road of dry sump... and found that it would cost cubic dollars to do it! It was going to be expensive... for some reason $4k+ is stuck in my head, but I could be wrong. Ask'm or wait for his input. He is auto crossing, so technical is the order of the day.

I would think a canton RR pan, with a cooler and dual remote filter (all those hoses add to the oil capacity) and the accusump should about fix everything...

Are you keeping A/C? IF not, you gain a ton of space in the airbox, but an oil cooler will still fit up there easily.

Quote:

$4K is the tip of the iceburg

I had started to accumulate the parts for an oil cooler setup. AC is long gone so yea right there in the airflow to the radiator is where it is going to go.

Is a remote filter really required?

So road race pan and accusump are on the new list.

Is a remove filter required? I doubt it, but dual filters will add to oil volume.

Quote:

Andy, that doesn't do much except help cooling (a little bit), the oil volume that's important is in the pan at the pump pickup.

But what a remote will do is get the filter away fron the headers though I'm not sure what that distance is on a C4.

You don't have to go to a dry sump to keep your motor alive.

I run a custom built wet sump pan on mine. It'll cost you about $350-$400 with the pick up.

Competition Components
10124 W 55th St S,
Clearwater, KS 67026

620-545-7227

Talk to Larry. He's forgot more about oiling systems than I know and I like to think that I know alot. He manufactures accusumps as well but I don't know what they cost as I've NEVER had to run one with Larry's pans.... Yes his sump/baffling design is that good. Your going to need a pan that has a 7" deep sump, and be sure he understands that your road racing on a tight corner track... Also make sure he knows that your an LTX engine with the 1pc rear seal.

Larry is a Mfgr that usually only deals with professional engine builders. If he ask who gave out his number tell him Billy from Magic Racing Engines in Williamson, GA. If he wants you to go thru us to buy the pan no problem... IF you want the pan just send me a PM and I'll take care of it.

A little cheaper option is Champ Pans for wet sump stuff. It's functional but their stuff is not nearly as nice as Larrys. I have used a few Champ Pans in lower priced engine builds and they have all worked great. They have also been very accomodating to work with.

http://www.champpans.com/


Will

I almost forgot that Larry still makes pans for the old Barnes "in the pan" dry sump system we ran in dirt late models and sprint cars back in the 1980/90's. The pumps turn up on ebay all the time used... they are practically indestructable and last forver if not blown up. I wish Barnes still made the pumps new as I really like the system. This is a very simple and very lightweight dry sump system that all you'll need is the pump/pan, a tank and lines. The pump mounts off the rear main and is driven off the cam like a wet sump pump.

Here is a guy that has few pumps and other stuff.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Oil-Pumps-P ... y-Sump-Pump-Pan-Tank.html

Will

it was going to be around 4k

I did the remote filter since I was putting the oil cooler and accusump in the back anyways.

I love these threads where you guys talk about interesting stuff I have no clue about ...

Well... dry sump... what is a sump? a sump is a storage tank.

Most, 99% of the cars on the road, use a wet sump. Certain high-end Porsches, Ferrari and such use dry sump.

And what is the difference?

A wet sump has oil just sitting in it... and it is drawn up. Think of a glass of water with a straw, but it returns to complete the cycle.

Dry sump is more like a water fountain, where there is no sump, but a tank for storage and the oil being pumped in a pressurized closed circuit.

This means that when oil starts to slosh about, it is contained and always under pressure.

My drysump, this pump is driven off the cam but V8's will be belt driven just like a power steering pump.

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The oil pan, it holds about 1/2 qt. There's a baffle missing in the pic because this pan is being repaired. The baffle covers up all the oil that's in the 1 inch bottom of the pan (see front view).

Oil in a dry sump system still runs into the pan but is picked up by the scavenge section of the pump then thru the cooler and back to the oil tank.

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I'd like to add some more basic tech info for those that don't know what we are talking about. There are lots of benefits to dry sumps and the only real draw back is the cost.

Dry sumps are a more efficient oiling system because they have at least a 2 stage pump (pressure and scavenge). Some pumps are multi stage with lots of scavenges. We run between a 4-6 stage pump depending on type of engine and application.

The scavenge stage(s) pump oil out of the engine and into a holding tank. This action keeps the pan practically dry so there is far less windage in the crank case for the rotating assy to contend with.

When you step up to multi stage pumps you can compartmentalize your oiling system. You can scavange oil from the cyl heads, the lifter valley and the crank case all seperatly. First not only does this make more HP, secondly it makes the engine more reliable and third easier to repair in the event of a failure.

Some of these pumps are so efficient that we can even use a dedicated stage off the pump to pull a vacuum in the crank case which free's up a little more HP.

Oil is a liquid and it's heavy. Most endurance race cars can run a couple gallons of oil. With a dry sump you can place the oil holding tank where it will best benefit the weight distribution of the car.

On most modern dry sump systems the pump runs off the crankshaft via a belt drive. This alone has alot of advantages over the cam driven wet sump a stock engine has. Belts are very efficient and have very little frictional loss. No gear to gear contact which means less heat and metal in the oil. Less torsional stress on the camshaft, which lessens some valve train harmonics. Lasty on an engine like the SBC/BBC/BBF/SBF which uses the distributor as an intermediate drive for the oil pump - the oil pump load can effect the ignition timing... no more with a belt driven dry sump system.

Hope that helps those that need info out.
Will

Now I learned something. That explains all the hoses coming and going on the oil pump. The different scavenging points. Interesting.

Good info in this post!