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| screamin_conure | More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Gurus,
I know that there is a TON of stuff here, and elsewhere on the Web, regarding proper jacking and jack stand placement for C4 Corvettes and I've found it all and I'm fairly confident about the proper procedure. But I'm a bit confused about something. I recently picked up a floor jack (http://www.harborfreight.com/floor-ja ... avy-duty-steel-68049.html) and a pair of jack stands (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200349988_200349988). In the manual for the jack stands, there is a paragraph that reads as follows... "PRODUCT DESCRIPTION Hein-Werner Jack Stands are designed to support rated capacity, partial vehicle loads consisting of one end of a vehicle. Use as a matched pair to support one end of a vehicle only. NEVER use automotive jack stands to support both ends or one side of a vehicle! Use only one (1) pair per vehicle. Rated capacity is per pair only!" That's totally confusing. I only bought one pair of jack stands because my anticipated use for them is to support either the front two tires, the rear two tires, or either the right or left side of the car. If I'm reading that paragraph correctly, lifting one side of the car by one of the factory jack points (thus lifting that entire side of the car) and placing a jack stand under the frame in front, and another under the frame in the rear and letting the car rest sideways on just those two stands (with the other two tires still on the ground), is a no-no. My purpose in proping the car up in this manner would be for things like brake service, wheel cleaning, or a bit of chassis cleaning/detailing. To me, setting one side of the car on two jack stands would seem to be perfectly safe. Any thoughts? Ron |
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Posted on: 2012/11/20 15:54
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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You're fine.
The H-W stands are good. I personally use 6 Ton but those are OK. There is zero problem putting stands on one side IF you put them in the right place. With the car up on it's side, the load on the stands is roughly 1,700 lba and your 2 stands have a 6,00 lb. capacity. I only use the front frame (at the rear or the wheel well) and the factory point just behind the storage compartment (just be careful of the brakelines.). I jack on the rear jack point location on the rockercover If I'm just doing one side. Usually, I run the front tires up on my 2 inch ramps, jack the front and put 2 stands on the front frame then jack the sides at the one at a time to put up the rear. Yes, I use 4 stands all the time. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/20 16:10
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| bogus | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I will post my pdf document on this tonight.
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Posted on: 2012/11/20 18:26
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| screamin_conure | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Hey guys, thanks for the replies. Andy, no hurry on the PDF. I actually have a downloaded copy of from a while back. I figured as much that I'd be okay putting one side of the car up on two stands. I just figured that I should bounce it off of some folks who've actually used jack stands on a C4. This will be my first go at it.
Ron |
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Posted on: 2012/11/20 19:14
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Note, if you put the front end up first and then go to the rocker panel jack point, you will lift the car off the front jackstand on thet side, it's no big deal.
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Posted on: 2012/11/20 19:18
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| bogus | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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yea, putting these things up on jack stands can be a bit nerve racking...
 Lifting on either side, at either lift point, will eventually lift that entire side. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/20 20:49
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| screamin_conure | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Amen to that, brother. This will be the first time in a long time that I've climbed under a car supported by jack stands. That's why I went with the Hein-Werner stands. My natural sense of self-preservation simply wouldn't allow me to purchase a pair of $15.99 stands from Harbor Freight. Many years ago, I hung out with a couple of guys who ran a chassis shop out of a rented garage. I spent plenty of time under cars then, but a lot of time has passed and I have a totally different outlook on life (and death)! I want to make sure I get it right. I'm still serious thinking about a set of Race Ramps too... |
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Posted on: 2012/11/20 21:45
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| tjpreul | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Here are a few thoughts as why they may say no side to side. Some may forget that having one drive wheel off the ground will allow the car to move. By lifting one side there is a chance the lateral load on the tire may be too much and pop it off of the bead (this would be an extreme case).
Just be sute the stands are on a solid surface, and located in the correct position. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 2:31
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
If you have 5 psi in the tires, maybe, Tyler. I lift mine to full jack height on the side all the time. Yea, always block the wheels. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 3:00
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| Matatk | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Webmaster
 
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I jack the car in all different configurations based on the work being done. 2 side, 2 front, 2 rear, all 4. As long as they are properly placed I have no concern getting under the car.
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 3:11
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Yea, really. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 3:33
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| CentralCoaster | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Jack the car up nascar style. Stick a floor jack under the rail below the mirror and lift the entire side at once. The mirror is the balance point.
Then I stick stands on that side, one by where the frame curves in, and another in back inboard where there is a sort of grid, the jackstand fits nicely in there. Try to always lift with the jack handle reasonably perpendicular to the vehicle if you can, this allows the jack to roll as it lifts. Otherwise it can sideload the jack and cause it to fail or tip over. Also some jackstands have really deep valleys in the top, these are inevitably harder to use, get ones with a shallower valley if you have the choice. I put the car up on 4 stands all the time, it's just as much effort as lifting just the front. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 6:49
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| screamin_conure | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Excellent tip (no pun intended)! The H-W jack stands I bought do have a fairly shallow saddle. MUCH more shallow than the exagerated V that you see on a lot of other makes. They also have nice tabs welded to the bottoms of each of the four corners (feet) which gives them a flatter surface that should distribute load better plus keep them from digging into asphalt. They seem to be very well built. I like them a lot. Here's another question: Two summers ago, I covered my garage floor with this: http://www.bltllc.com/coin_pattern.htm. I went with the coin pattern. It's 0.075" thick. Seems to be pretty sturdy stuff. The floor jack doesn't seem to mind it. Think it would pose a potential problem for jack stands though? My guess is the stands will probably sink into it just a bit, maybe even cut it. I guess we'll see. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 14:21
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| screamin_conure | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
I'm full of questions today... CentralCoaster, when you say "fits nicely IN there" are you referring to this? In post #12 of this thread (http://www.corvetteguruforum.com/modu ... id=188772#forumpost188772), the second picture, BillH shows shows the frame of the rear of the car, with two pieces of blue tape on it. Another Guru asks further down if the jack stand can be placed in the recess between the two pieces of tape, and Bill responded that it should straddle the recess, with the pinch welds resting on the jack stand saddle. However, I also saw this, where it appears the jack stand saddle is actually placed up into the recess (second photo from the bottom): http://zr1netregistry.com/Information ... ow-to-Jack-up-a-ZR-1.aspx Does it matter? |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 14:35
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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A lota racetracks require plywood under the jackstands to protect the asphalt. I use 3/8th's. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 15:09
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
The ZR1 pics (blown up) look like the rears are in the same place as in my post (this is the place the FSM recommends BTW). On the fronts, this is where I put the stands, maybe an inch or so inboard from the Z pic. I'm fairly sure CC is talking about the same locations. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 15:12
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| Matatk | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Webmaster
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I agree....if I jack the car in the driveway (asphalt) I sometimes put a piece of plywood underneath to prevent it from digging in.
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Posted on: 2012/11/21 19:34
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| bogus | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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since everyone else is posting links and such...
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Posted on: 2012/11/22 2:13
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_________________
The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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TowingJacking.pdf| jonszr1 | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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a cool little trick i came up with was to use a hockey puck that has a groove cut in it for the side rail. put the puck in the jack cradle and jack away without fear of the car falling off the jack or cracking the under body .
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Posted on: 2012/11/22 7:26
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i have a blast playing with my 4 babies 2 zr1s and 2 mustangs 68 coupe with a jon bennit 408 art car fully rollered c4 with a gearvendors over drive .88 mustang built by my kids with a ported lt5 and a bill boudreau blue printed zf 6 spd. with these 4 ... |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
 On my car the ebrake cable gets in the way in there. Follow those two edges inboard about 5" and that little piece that crosses between them is what I put into the V on the jackstands. With that said, one of mine is bent. I don't recall if it was from me or the previous owner. But I still put the stand there. Sometimes I even place it rearward on that same edge, before it curves upward. I honestly don't know how much weight those were designed for. Some day I'll bend that fold back straight. I think I was putting the jackstands far in like that to make room for the jack. But this was before I realized I can lift it from under the mirror, and quit getting queasy about flexing the plastic rocker panel which seems to hang down below the metal pinch weld a bit. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/26 23:45
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
They're the factory location for a jack or stands in the FSM so, they're good for the weight. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/27 0:46
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| screamin_conure | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
What I was wondering, is why couldn't one just place the saddle of the jackstand up INSIDE the recessed area, resting it on the flat part BETWEEN the pinch welds. I stuck a magnet up against that flat part a few days ago and the car sucked it right up. That's definitely metal there, and it appears to be part of the frame. Putting the saddle up inside there would take the worry about pinching a brake line completely out of the equation. In the ZR-1 post I referred to above, it appears that guy has his jack stand placed up inside the recess between the pinch welds. I just wanted to be sure. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/27 18:15
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| CentralCoaster | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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I don't know if those flats in between can handle it. I've seen plenty of cars with dented up flat metal under there. I'm sure it is structural, but not necessary in the way you want to use it.
I do know that thickness being equal, those vertical legs will support way, way more weight than a flat part, assuming you don't put side loads on them with poor use of jack or jackstand placement. Stand on the side of a coke can and then stand on the end of it and see which way the metal walls support you better. I lower the jack slowly and reposition the jackstand just before contact to ensure it lands in the V. This is also critical up front where you risk mangling brake lines or fuel lines or the fuel filter with careless placement. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/27 19:14
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| CentralCoaster | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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That piece with the dogleg bend 2/3 of the way to the left in the pic appears to have the most metal sandwiched in.
That is probably the strongest place for a jackstand, assuming it doesn't collide with anything else. I'll recheck my procedure next time. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/27 19:16
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| screamin_conure | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Very good point. Never really thought of it like that, so thank you! My stands have very shallow saddles. They're really not even "V"s, more like indented "U"s. I guess I should be clear of brake/fuel lines wherever I put them. I'm always looking for ways to keep myself from having to make any additional, unnecessary repairs, ya' know? ;) |
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Posted on: 2012/11/28 18:02
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| BillH | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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No, absolutely not. |
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Posted on: 2012/11/28 21:30
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| screamin_conure | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Hey Gurus,
One quick safety-related update I'd like to pass along regarding this thread... In post #13 of this thread, I provided a link to a flooring product that I've installed in my garage: http://www.bltllc.com/coin_pattern.htm. I've been doing some experimenting with my jack stands and I've found that I do not trust this surface to place jack stands directly on. This stuff is a bit slippery, and the jack stand doesn't seem to bite very well. I tried placing my hand on the saddle of the jack stand and leaning as much weight on it as I could, and then tried kicking the jack stand out with my foot. It was quite easy to do on the garage floor material. I repeated the same experiment on my concrete front porch and found that the jack stand was WAY more stationary and kicking it out from under my hand was noticeably more difficult. If you're using this same type of floor in your garage, I would caution against placing a vehicle on jack stands directly on it without something underneath the stands like a piece of plywood. I put a 2'x2'x3/8" piece of CDX on the floor material and repeated my "kick test" again and the jack stand held fine on the plywood. Probably better than it did on concrete. Even my wheel chocks have a tendency to slide around on this stuff. I tried putting one of those oven-proof silicone rubber pot holders underneath the chock and that seemed to hold it in place solidly. I even go so far as to give my wheel chocks a couple of light taps with a plastic/rubber mallet to make sure they're snug up against the tire too. Just wanted to share. Make sure everyone stays safe. Ron |
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Posted on: 2012/12/10 18:33
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| CentralCoaster | Re: More C4 jack stand confusion... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Actually I disagree. So what if the jackstand can slide a little?
Jackstands (and jacks) topple over when they can't slide. For example, if not placed exactly right, or when lifting the other side of the car, the car can side load the stands, and potentially stress them in an unintended way and topple them. This is why floor jacks have wheels on them. Because if they didn't the car and jack would get side loads while lifting. It's not for rolling them around for storage. I don't see any possible way that jackstand could slide out with a car resting on it. |
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Posted on: 2012/12/10 19:04
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