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vettebigguy 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
Guru Newb
Canada
21 Posts
Member since:
2007/2/23 0:00



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Hi guys, I really need some help here. I have a '93 LT1 with about 40,000 miles on it. Last month I was driving her and all was fine,I had been on the road for about 125 miles and suddenly the engine just quit. ( at 60 MPH!) I managed to get her started and she ran for a short period of time, ( minute or so) I got her fired up and she ran off and on for about an other 3/4 hour. I got it to my friends place in Spokane Washington and then she really gave me trouble, would hardly start and not run at all. I got it towed to the Chevy dealership and they changed the fuel pump, thinking that was it. NOT, 500 bucks later still the same thing runs fine cold then quits when hot, we have since changed the ECM another 500 bucks, now they think it is the BCM, the mechanic says he has tested everything...but he looses an injector pulse and that is when she quits....I am into this for big bucks and they can't seem to figure this out, does anyone have ANY ideas. They have had the car a month and are no further ahead....I have never had any trouble in the past and she is a one owner car. He said he can start the car and she idles for about 1/2 hour and then dies, he says he has spark , good fuel pressure, and all injectors are good...can some one please help me, I am getting very desperate , frustrated and am disappointed with the Chevy Dealership. ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated....thanks everyone...I hope to hear from you
Posted on: 2008/8/22 22:27
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BrianCunningham Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Boston, MA for the most part :)
7763 Posts
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Did they yank the codes for you?

If not, you can make them come up on the dash.

FP is the 1st thing I would have checked.

Ignition Module is next, but get the codes before you do anything.
Posted on: 2008/8/22 23:36
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vettebigguy Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Canada
21 Posts
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Hi Brian, no codes show, none, they did change the fuel pump and shows good pressure....I spoke to a fellow from Corvette Specialties and he suggested the Ignition Coil? The Dealership said they checked it..?? Also the guy who has been working on the car said he momentarily lost injector pulse....the code thing is mysterious, so far according to the mechanic , no codes hale ever shown...I'm really lost here.....keep thinking for me, I really appreciate your help...thanks
Posted on: 2008/8/23 0:12
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Schrade Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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eastern NC / e-i-e-i-o
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Quote:

vettebigguy wrote:
Hi guys, I really need some help here. I have a '93 LT1 with about 40,000 miles on it. Last month I was driving her and all was fine,I had been on the road for about 125 miles and suddenly the engine just quit. ( at 60 MPH!) I managed to get her started and she ran for a short period of time, ( minute or so) I got her fired up and she ran off and on for about an other 3/4 hour. I got it to my friends place in Spokane Washington and then she really gave me trouble, would hardly start and not run at all. I got it towed to the Chevy dealership and they changed the fuel pump, thinking that was it. NOT, 500 bucks later still the same thing runs fine cold then quits when hot, we have since changed the ECM another 500 bucks, now they think it is the BCM, the mechanic says he has tested everything...but he looses an injector pulse and that is when she quits....I am into this for big bucks and they can't seem to figure this out, does anyone have ANY ideas. They have had the car a month and are no further ahead....I have never had any trouble in the past and she is a one owner car. He said he can start the car and she idles for about 1/2 hour and then dies, he says he has spark , good fuel pressure, and all injectors are good...can some one please help me, I am getting very desperate , frustrated and am disappointed with the Chevy Dealership. ANY ideas would be greatly appreciated....thanks everyone...I hope to hear from you


I'd first ask the Spokane chevy dealer if I can see the test results that led them to believe the pump was at fault: static fuel pressure test, pressure at idle with vacuum on FPR, pressure at idle with vacuum off of FPR, and pedal down pressure.

And then I'd get my cash back for un-necessary work.

Now for what you have current:
Seems that lost pulsewidth at the injectors should be pretty easy to trace, given an FSM, or experience...
Posted on: 2008/8/23 3:01
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Mekanic Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Tampa Bay Florida
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Did you try ohm testing the injectors once theyre hot and acting up. Could be dropping severely and interfering with other things.
Posted on: 2008/8/23 12:47
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Yea tho I walk through the valley in the shadow of rice, I shall fear no turbo, for torque art with me.
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vette079 Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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svenljunga
15 Posts
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2008/2/25 0:00



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How is the O2 and the fuel pump relay? Could be a bad electrical connection somewhere.
Posted on: 2008/8/23 15:38
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vettebigguy Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Canada
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40652 check no start. After engine runs for 20-30 minutes, it dies and will not restart, until it sits, for several minutes. Then will start and run for a few minutes and repeats the cycle. Check for spark, has spark. Check for fuel, pressure is at 40-45 pounds. Check for INJ pulse, there is no INJ pulse when engine will not start. Check codes, none stored in ECM, CCM,(BCM) has a history C0041 for no com with ECM stored. Cleared code to see if it would reset. It does reset when engine cranks and will not start. Test CCM for power inputs grounds all are OK. Voltage drop on B+ is about 200 mv, about 125 mv on B- side. Readings are the same when the engine runs. Intermittently CCM looses communication when eng won't start. Follow diag chart for C0041. Test comm circuits from CCM to ECM, all are okay, no shorts or opens. Tried a known good CCM engine still has same problem. Tested B= and B- to ECM all okay, similar to readings for CCM. Test all relays and loads on quad driver circuits to see if a component is shorting when hot, and shutting the ECM down.All readings are under the maximum allowed of 750 MA. Check signal for high and low RES crank sensors with a lab scope, both look okay when cranking and engine won't start. Captured data with tech2 and reviewed data. All readings appear to be within normal ranges.

This is the report I got from the Gm dealership, of what they have done. This is the sum total of I know to have been done. This is copied right of the work report.
Yeah, Blade_1 you aren't the first one to mention getting money back..... Makes a guy wonder sometimes, they are there for the initial sale, but afterwards?? They told me that GM has Tech support for only 10 years then they throw out the info?? Is that right? Holy, they could throw that sort of stuff in MY garbage can..LOL !!Thanks guys, I hope you can shed some light on this for me...cheers for now..
Posted on: 2008/8/23 17:07
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Matatk Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
Webmaster
SW Chicago Burbs
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I'm no expert, so here are a few ideas I'll toss out -

If it has a history code for no communication, wouldn't that indicate either an open circuit between the two or possibly a bad ECM? Perhaps caused by a heat related failure? Once it warms up there is a short or something and once it cools down if resets? Like with a bad ignition coil? How are all of the connections? Is there any corrosion or loose wires/plugs?

I see they tried a "known good CCM" - what about the ECM? Could the ECM have gotten fried from a bad opti? I know everyone is quick to blame the optispark, but doesn't the ECM receive its pulses from that to tell when to start?

Just a couple ideas.

Matthew
Posted on: 2008/8/23 17:26
_________________
2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc.
1989 Corvette...RIP
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vettebigguy Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Canada
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Mathew, I will take ANY and ALL ideas, keep them coming. Yeah, I think there might be some thing to the Ignition module, I spoke to Mike at Corvette Specialties in Vancouver B.C. and that was the first thing he said. I mentioned it to the dealership and they said they 'tried' that...I ma beginning to think not....I hope it isn't eh ECM , that is a brand new one in the car now. It was also suggested that maybe the pick up coil could be the culprit...??? I am absolutely convinced that it is a heat related fuel management issue. Keep tossing the ideas, I need all the suggestions I can get at this point. many thanks...

Jeff
Posted on: 2008/8/23 18:11
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Schrade Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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eastern NC / e-i-e-i-o
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Quote:

vettebigguy wrote: They told me that GM has Tech support for only 10 years then they throw out the info?? Is that right?


Told? You mean like with words? Words go away when the sound stops, and the phone hangs up, WHICHEVER IS FIRST.

When the words are on paper, they don't go away. I'm from Missouri - tell me the words all you want; and then show me!
Posted on: 2008/8/23 18:41
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vettebigguy Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Canada
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Blade_1...hey Pal, I never thought of it that way, guess I must be too trusting and believe what people tell me...you are absolutely right. I will take that.
Posted on: 2008/8/23 19:06
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NEVRL8T Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Little Rock, AR
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2007/2/21 0:00



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When the car starts acting up put a bag of ice on the ECM and see if it runs fine once the bag of ice has had a chance to cool the ECM down. I bet it does and I bet thats your problem.
Posted on: 2008/8/24 4:08
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vettebigguy Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Canada
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Angel of Death...gotta love it !! Yeah, the ECM does get very hot, but They did put a brand new one in...if that is the case, how would I keep it cool from now on. This was so weird, there was no warning, just driving down the highway and everything went off. Don't know if I mentioned it or not, but this is a one owner car and has been babied all it's life....very troubling...The dealership has had it going on 5 weeks ...what to do next? I seem to be running out of options....
Posted on: 2008/8/24 16:38
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NEVRL8T Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Little Rock, AR
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Ooops - I reread the thread and now see where you had the ECM replaced. I am at a loss.
Posted on: 2008/8/24 20:15
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vettebigguy Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Canada
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shoot...me too, but I have been talking to a few Chevy guys and they seem to think the culprit might just be the ignition module,,,,,any thoughts on that one? The car spent another day at the Chevy Dealership with no more positive results...I think it is time to get her out of there to some ' old school ' guy.....
Posted on: 2008/8/25 23:49
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CentralCoaster Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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San Diego, CA
9454 Posts
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Yeah, those guys sound like they're experimenting on your dime. Heat related ignition failure should have been their first thought.

Q: Is there spark after it dies and won't restart when you're cranking it?

The ECM will not pulse the injectors unless it receives feedback from the optispark distributor that the engine is rotating. This is pretty fundamental to every EFI car I know of. Hopefully someone else here can fill us in on the specifics whether that relates to the ignition module or something else, I'm not an LT1 guy.
Posted on: 2008/8/26 0:17
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vettebigguy Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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Canada
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I hate to say that they are experimenting, but I must confess, I am getting that feeling.....now, the next $1000.00 question, if by chance they try a new Ignition module, what are the sad painful chances that it could be the $1000.00 distributor? You know I don't think I can answer the before or after spark question....yet..good thought...could it be that Optispark ? And if so would you put in an MSD distributor? I am really getting worried here, I don't want a dead horse....
Posted on: 2008/8/26 23:33
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Schrade Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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I doubt it is your optispark. When that fails, a couple of specific codes will record.

40k in 15 years must have included some idle time. Time for mice to take up residence. I'm chasin' VERY elusive electrical problems '94 as we [post], and am into the dash now lookin' for the damage.

And I know the previous owner had mice because he wasn't a cat, he was a
Resized Image
Posted on: 2008/8/27 0:06
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Matatk Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
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SW Chicago Burbs
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Without any codes, I'd say it's more ignition module and less opti.

Matthew
Posted on: 2008/8/27 2:39
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1989 Corvette...RIP
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Schrade Re: 93 LT1 Starts then dies whenn hot
Elite Guru
eastern NC / e-i-e-i-o
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2008/8/15 2:01



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Quote:

vettebigguy wrote:
40652 check no start. After engine runs for 20-30 minutes, it dies and will not restart, until it sits, for several minutes. Then will start and run for a few minutes and repeats the cycle. Check for spark, has spark. Check for fuel, pressure is at 40-45 pounds. Check for INJ pulse, there is no INJ pulse when engine will not start. Check codes, none stored in ECM, CCM,(BCM) has a history C0041 for no com with ECM stored. Cleared code to see if it would reset. It does reset when engine cranks and will not start. Test CCM for power inputs grounds all are OK. Voltage drop on B+ is about 200 mv, about 125 mv on B- side. Readings are the same when the engine runs. Intermittently CCM looses communication when eng won't start. Follow diag chart for C0041. Test comm circuits from CCM to ECM, all are okay, no shorts or opens. Tried a known good CCM engine still has same problem. Tested B= and B- to ECM all okay, similar to readings for CCM. Test all relays and loads on quad driver circuits to see if a component is shorting when hot, and shutting the ECM down.All readings are under the maximum allowed of 750 MA. Check signal for high and low RES crank sensors with a lab scope, both look okay when cranking and engine won't start. Captured data with tech2 and reviewed data. All readings appear to be within normal ranges.


This is the report I got from the Gm dealership, of what they have done. This is the sum total of I know to have been done. This is copied right of the work report.
Yeah, Blade_1 you aren't the first one to mention getting money back..... Makes a guy wonder sometimes, they are there for the initial sale, but afterwards?? They told me that GM has Tech support for only 10 years then they throw out the info?? Is that right? Holy, they could throw that sort of stuff in MY garbage can..LOL !!Thanks guys, I hope you can shed some light on this for me...cheers for now..


Intermittently CCM loses comms with ECM...
2nd sentence later:
Tested comm circuits from CCM to ECM, all are okay, no shorts or opens.

Those 2 statements don't jibe.

Were the tests JUST FOR CONTINUITY??? Were they completely BYPASSED?

OR WERE THEY TESTS FOR DATA TRANSMISSION FROM CCM TO ECM???
Did they physically inspect the wires IN THE HARNESS from the CCM to the ECM???
Posted on: 2008/8/27 14:12
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