First of all, It's in a Camaro. This is Pa and the Vette isn't always practical.98K on the clock. It has 40# of fuel pressure, Crane Fireball ignition box and coil, new distributor. new wires, cap and rotor. It cranks fine but won't start reliably. Sometimes it will just start and others (usually) it just turns and turns until the battery runs down. I stuck my timing light on it and I'm getting a weak and inconsistent spark from No. 1. if it catches and fires the spark looks good. Timing is set at 10 deg. BTDC. I've cleaned all the grounds and am done just replacing parts. It also has Accel 24# injectors. Any ideas will be appreciatted! And yes I will order a Helms manual for this one right after Christmas. Thanks again Guys, I'm gonna go back to hunting for a while and I'll check back when I get to a computer.

wow....

weak spark makes me wonder if all the aftermarket ignition components are up to snuff.

I would also check the fuel filter... pressure is one thing, but if the volume is weak...

add these together: The fuel pressure starts ok, but the volume is low, it takes a while to get started, spark weakens as battery weakens.

just a guess.

also, reset the timing to 6* BTDC... it could be a touch advanced.

Then comes my final concern... the accel injectors. they don't have a great rep, to be honest.

what year?

It is just the basics, to start with. Air, fuel, spark, compression. What is missing? If the fuel volume isn't sufficient, the pressure will drop. So if the pressure is steady you can forget that idea. You didn't mention that it did drop off, but that doesn't mean that the pressure at the Schrader valve is making it to the injectors. or through the injectors. From your description of symptoms, I'd have to guess the problem is with the ignition system. The 10° base timing has nothing to do with the problem. How long has it been since you worked on it before the problems? What work did you do at that time?

RACE ON!!!

First of all, Thanks for the replies! It's an 89. Fuel pressure stays at 40# as soon as the pump kicks. The car is an autocross E-street prepped race car. Trying to civilize it for the street. It did have about 30 degrees of advance on it when I got it. It idled, well, like a race car. And it was a hard starter, But it started. I yanked the cap and rotor and they looked horrible. Replaced them. The wires didn't click on the way I liked, replaced them. Dropped the timing back to stock. Wouldn't start. Cleaned all grounds and battery connections and it fired right up! Shut it down packed the tools up, cracked a brew, reached in through the window to show the GF my automotive prowess, cranked fine, no start. Damn. Figured module right? Got a new distributor. Dropped her in and she fired right up. 1 hour later, no start. It seems to start fine when it's being jumped by my Z71, so I thought bad ground. Bogus, I have 24# accells in the Vette and I love 'em. Any ideas are appreciatted, Sorry for the run ons but it's the season and I'm a little tuned! Thanks again.

I am curious... a new part works for a while, then you lose it.

hm... what happens to the fuel pressure over time? I am wondering if there is a leaky injector... that much advanced timing makes me wonder what is up inside that engine... I mean, was the cam properly degreed when installed?

Maybe un-related, but I have a friend that had a '91 RS. Went through the same things as you. AT times would be able to start it and drive it, but then later couldn't get it to start. Replaced many parts with no luck.
He even replaced the Computer witha used one, no luck. Finally sold it to another friend of mine who replced the computer with a re-man one. It has been fine ever since.

What is the battery voltage when read from the terminals using a digital volt meter?

Using the same digital volt meter, spear the cables and see what the voltage is further down.

Case, I was waiting for you to kick in your opinion. All I can say is "what?" Are you saying check the resistance on the battery cables? I can get a new set for about 30 USD. Thinking of trying that next. But right now I'm hunting and the car is under 12" of snow! Any how I did get 2 deer. Thank GOD my Remington still works! (I worked on that too, but I am an armorer) I do have several spare parts from my parts car. (coil,dist,starter,ignition, etc) was just going to say WTF and start swicthing stuff. It has to be something basic. I am apretty good wrench turner but electrics make me want to just get a beer and stare at it. Oh and the ECM is a GM replcaement with a thermomaster chip installed. The guy I bought the car from actually worked for GM. And yes Bogus I am suspect of the aftermarket ignition. I can bypass it back to a stock configuration, But it does look cool under the hood! Thanks again guys, Y'all are the greatest.

"It seems to start fine when it's being jumped by my Z71, so I thought bad ground. Bogus, I have 24# accells in the Vette and I love 'em. Any ideas are appreciatted, Sorry for the run ons but it's the season and I'm a little tuned! Thanks again."

I'm new to posting on this forum but have been reading it for a while now. What you describe above sounds like a failing battery. Your battery may check 12v when it has no load on it but, if it is failing, when a load is put on it, the voltage will drop to the point of not being able to supply enough to the ignition for a strong spark.

I would put a voltmeter across the battery and see what voltage you get. Then have someone crank the engine and see what voltage your getting across the battey while under the load of cranking. If it is 11v or below, that is likely your problem.

Hope this helps.

Norm.

That is about the dirrection i was heading in as well MMOCGuy

Hey Eagle, I have been watching this thread for awhile as well. Some great advice in here from seasoned "pros". I can't wait to hear back to see if these guys helped you out

Quote:

save the step and borrow a battery tester or take it to Autozone.

I am betting the battery is dying, or, the cables are bad internally.

Yes RJ thats why I posted here after trying the Camaro web sites and getting no insight whatsoever! I'll try the battery and cable resistance, that sounds like it could be it. It has a 3 year old Optima yellow top. I'll break out the voltmeter when the weather breaks(Now that the season is over)! Thanks again Guys, I'll post my results.

Ok I'm back with the car. It's actually a 2 year old Optima red top. I bought a wild battery charger with diagnostics included, very cool. Hooked it up and it said 4.5v. Set it to charge on a gel type setting and it is charging the battery as I type. It went up to 12.5v in about 45mins but my oh so smart charger decided the run it through some "desulfication" mode. It's bumping it up to like 13.7 and letting it drain back to 12.5. The manual states this is for batteries that have been not used in a while. Maybe it will live, who knows? I figure I'll let her do her thing for now and try to start her in an hour or so. I will be really embarrassed if thats all it was, a bad battery. I'm usually smarter than this. I ASSumed the battery was fine (ie.. not that old, real expensive) and went digging deeper looking for a big conspiracy and flying off the handle as to why it wouldn't start. Next stop will be cables if the optima passes the leakdown test. One thing I failed to mention that just occurred to me now as I am working on her in the cold rain (as my Corvette chuckles at me from inside the warm garage) is it failed to start as soon as the temp got below like 50 degrees, dead give away for a weak battery. Oh well live and learn I guess, Hope this works and thanks again to all Guru's who responded. Maybe I just need a mental kick in the tail sometimes!

Yup, I'm an idiot. The optima won't hold a charge over 4.5v. Oh well.

They do that... when they die, they DIE. No questions asked.

Eagle.

I'm glad you found the problem and that it is an easy fix. :thumbleft:

Norm

Very true. My Optima died and was dead. Jumping would start it but it would stall and would not start again. I towed it only to find the battery was dead!! Paid $50 for the tow and $50 for a battery I could have put in myself.

Bloody Optima,s! Bought 1 when I was in CA a few years ago for around $140 US Yellow top biggest and baddest supposedly {Cost around $350-400 Aussie damn it s@#ts me how much we get ripped over here!!} Lasted bout the same as our local type. Thought OPTIMA were the ducks nuts but?? :angry4:

C4Luva there is no reason at all for you to be getting ripped off on anything you buy mate, youre dealing with the wrong people. I would even be prepared to say i buy alot of things cheaper than people living in the US do.

Optima are only considered the ducks nuts cause they are almost spill and leak proof, but they are no better than any other lead-acid type battery in terms of function. Better off going down to K-Mart and buying a good EXIDE battery. Ive never been forced to replace one yet.

that's what I use, too, Exide. Have had great luck with them.

They're a good battery i reckon

Ok guy's hate to dredge this up again but... Can anyone point me to information on how to chase down an electrical leak, I guess. New battery and it's fine for a few days and then flat dead. As I stated before, I'm a wrench turner, not an electrician. I can set my tps sensor and small stuff like that and do have a digi-volt meter but no knowledge. Could you guy's suggest a web page or a book that will teach me auto-electrical? You know, how to find shorts, diagnose probs, etc. I appreciate all the help you guy's have given in the past and know I have alot to learn. Thanks again.

[quote]Ok guy's hate to dredge this up again but... Can anyone point me to information on how to chase down an electrical leak, I guess. New battery and it's fine for a few days and then flat dead. As I stated before, I'm a wrench turner, not an electrician. I can set my tps sensor and small stuff like that and do have a digi-volt meter but no knowledge. Could you guy's suggest a web page or a book that will teach me auto-electrical? You know, how to find shorts, diagnose probs, etc. I appreciate all the help you guy's have given in the past and know I have alot to learn. Thanks again. :banghead]

Haynes has an electrical repair book. Non-vehicle specific, sounds like exactly what you are looking for, available at Amazon for $17. If you are going to tackle this type of stuff you will need to find diagrams for your car either a manual or even ALLDATA DIY online.

For your specific prob, you will ikely be putting an ammeter in-line (battery post to cable) and seeing what it reads when everything has fallen asleep. If the reading is high, start pulling fuses until it drops significantly. Your problem is on that circuit.From there it becomes a little vehicle specific in where to look...hence the need for diagrams. Beyond all the theory it's just electrons going from the red batt post looking for a ground. Their path directed by wires and switches.

Thanks Steve, Thats the info I was looking for! I'll order the book and put my thinking cap on! Old dog, new tricks. Always something new to learn. Thanks again

Ps: What would you consider a high reading(post to cable)? Thanks again!

Sorry man, it has been so long since I've done it I can't remember exactly but we are talking millivolts. On older cars just a few, more modern cars with a few computers I think 30-50 can be expected.

I'll try to find the spec in my 85 manual...

I know you have this new problem...but just to be sure.

Did your starting problem get solved with the new battery?

As long as the battery is good yes it starts fine. The problem was the battery had enough juice to turn the engine over but not fire the Crane Fireball ignition system. That resulted in a cranking but no(spark) start situation. Had me stumped. These guy's here really helped me out! Call me Mr. Obvious! Anyhow, new battery, and it drains it also. So I have a short somewhere. The car is at my buddy's body shop getting repainted. Arrest me Red, way cool. Still have a short so I just disconnected the battery for now. Still seeking eletrical knowledge! Got any you can loan me? Thanks! :toothy8: