Well I found out why the 91 was hard starting. The oil pan was half full of gasoline. What are the probable culprits? The crank still turns but it's a somewhat stiff. The car is now at the shop that did my starter. They're going to check it out further on Wednesday. Thanks gurus.

Id say intake gasket failure would be the likliest problem.......

Leaking fuel pressure regulator diaphragm or stuck injector would be a couple of likely suspects.
Inspect the vacuum line to the regulator for traces of fuel, then test the fuel pressure and rate of leak down after key off to isolate injector problems. The difficulty turning over could be fuel in the cylinders, use caution to avoid damage from hydro lock. Best of luck, hope is something easy and inexpensive.

Use caution to avoid damage from hydrolock. What kind of caution? What potential damage? Could you give me a little more info? Thanks.

Man I'm a hoping and a praying there is no major damage. That 383 only has about 7000 miles on the engine. That could be very painful.

The only way fuel can enter the crankcase is through the cylinders, leaking by the rings. If the engine is turned over with liquid fuel on top of the piston it can cause mechanical damage (piston or connecting rod) because liquid cannot compress.

Now I got it. Thanks.

To try to comfort you a little until Wednesday, if it turned over at all, even slowly, you are probably fine concerning the hydro lock issue. When it occurs they often act like they are seized, the liquid fuel is essentially a solid and they act as though locked, hence the name.
Have the shop remove the spark plugs, disable the ignition to prevent a fire, then crank the engine to expel any fuel in the cylinders before reinstalling and attempting to start.
With luck by observing which cylinders have liquid fuel when cranking with plugs removed you can isolate the offending injector if that is the root cause. It will be tougher if the fuel was drawn into the intake through the vacuum line to the pressure regulator.
You want to avoid starting with fuel in a cylinder at all cost, that is far more likely to cause damage than cranking with the starter.

I had an accel adjustable FPR fail... and it filled #'s 4 and 6 with raw fuel, and poured a couple of gallons into the crankcase. No long term ill effects.

However, the car simply died as I drove down the road... I could not for the life of me figure it out. It died and would not start. I went through a very thorough exam and tested the starter, battery and then went into the motor. I then pulled the plugs and raw fuel poured out. I then drained the oil and found the mess... it wasn't pretty.

I am so glad it stopped running.

when I rebuild, I will be curious as to what I learn as far as bearing damage, if any. OP has been more than ok.

My factory FPR is just that, the original factory unit, and i check that vacuum line for fuel every time i check the fluid levels. Its getting abit long in the tooth now and id rather be sure!!

Of course my wife blamed me for my troubles. LOL, She says it wouldn't have happened if I'd been wearing my glasses and keeping an eye on the gauges. Somehow every trip to the shop or the parts store has to be my fault.

HAHAHAHA!!! I dont remember seeing a gauge on my 94 dash to warn me of fuel in the oil, so im reasonably certain you dont have one either!!

That is a tough bullet to dodge, especially since I remember you saying how good it was running a few days ago. Hopefully the regulator is the fix, I doubt there will be any lasting effects.

Newsflash...... This just in

Things were looking up today, then down , then back up again ending finally ending with a bang. Many items replaced.

8 A/C Delco spark plugs
front timing seal
serpentine belt
tensioner
oil pan gasket
A/C recharge
Complete engine diagnostic
4 fuel injectors
intake (unreadable) gasket
oil change
oil filter
a shop fuel regulator (no charge)
a stock coil replacing my supposedly not working properly MSD6AL

The engine is running but backfiring. He now thinks it could be a fouled catalytic converter. Total spent so far just under $2000 U.S. Rechecked the plug wires. The car has little power and is backfiring. I have to call him back in the morning so if any gurus have any input I would surely appeciate any guidance. The guy is not an idiot but then again I would like to take it out of there running without losing too much more. His do-boy seems to be like a bull in a china shop when he works on this. I just want to get it home and get a master to go over his work.

Let's see what tomorrow brings. The last couple of weeks have been brutal

Is fuel still in the oil?

Wonder if they disturbed the timing? Did they take the intake manifold off and reseal it, as I noticed they replaced "unreadable" intake gasket. Most likely just the plenum and runner gaskets because of replacing the injectors. If the intake manifold was taken off, they might have not installed the dist correctly. Ask them about that.

They could do a exhaust backpressure test to determine if the cat is flowing correctly.

No gas in the oil anymore. The oil has been flushed and the injectors and regulator replaced. I guess it leaves the cat, the distributor and the ecm, right? Unless wires are crossed but they supposedly already checked that.

Yes, raw fuel or very rich exhaust can ruin a catalytic converter, fairly quickly. Do you still have precats?

I would let them check the plug wires in association with firing order The FSM give good info on this and even the crappy Haynes has some info. Find out if they pull the dist. If so, they might want to get #1 clyinder to TDC (HB at 0*) and take the cap off and make sure the rotor is pointing towards #1 cylinder. My 86 was out of time and it caused the "little power and backfiring" situation...sure you remember reading about it. These are very easy steps to take and require very basic tools and cheaper than replacing a cat that imight be good. IMO

Yep , still have precats. Legal exhaust system. Just the Magnaflows on the back. Thanks for your input RRT. You've been helpful to me in what I should ask tomorrow. Hopefully it will all get sorted out soon before my wife calls for my head. LOL. I'll hopefully post the final chapter on this very soon. I better take my FSM with me and let them borrow it.

No problem. Maybe someone else can chime in with some other suggestions. If they don't have a FSM for a 91, by all means..let them use it.

Tommy, I'm not familiar with your setup on this car but the popping and backfiring sounds indicative of a timing issue more so than a cat. It 'could' be a plugged cat but they usually idle fine and just refuse to rev over a certain RPM.
Also, I wonder if they checked the pushrods to see if any got bent. Hydrolocking can do that.

If the timing is too far retarded it will dump raw fuel into the exhaust, and also past the rings. And it makes for a loud rumbly, popping exhaust.

Is the distributor in a tooth off?

My best advice at this point would be DON'T make any more suggestions to the so called mechanic. Sounds like he has thrown every part at the car you have mentioned along with anything else that was in the neighborhood.
When you pay someone to fix your car insist they do the diagnosis then hold them to the repair. If you don't trust them to do the diagnosis don't let them touch your car. The guy working on it now is shot gunning, run don't walk to a different wrench even if that means a tow bill, good luck.

I agree with Jim. Looks like this shop has replaced a lot of parts and a few have nothing to do with fuel in the oil unless it was requested. I'd give them one more shot at diagnosing it.

See this link to understand your rights as a consumer:

http://www.800helpfla.com/autorepair_txt.html

No matter where you live, most states have similar laws on the books to avoid similar situations. Hold the shop accountable or refuse to pay, contact the Attorney General if necessary.

If worse comes to worse, you may even contact me, and as a C4 Guru member youre entitle to one free hit per year, minus air fares.....

Quote:

The hometown mechanic is still a little cheaper than airfare from Down Under me thinks.

Thanks toptech. I know almost all the shops in town and I've been blanked by all of them at one time or another. The stealership does good work usually but charges double to triple what the local shops charge. I have a good mechanic but sadly he's about 20 miles away. Looks like he's going to be my regular guy in the future. I'll just have to work it out.

I would bet the timing is off. Re-drop the distributor. Its a common mistake/accident.

All is well. The Vert is back on the road and running like a champ. The last problem turned out to be a defective plug and a cut in one of the plug wires. Thanks to everyone who helped me through this dilema. Even the mechanics and shop owner stepped up to keep me happy even though they seemed to do a few steps extra. My wife is the one who found the problem when she was looking at the dip stick. She ran her fingers down the stick and said " There is something wrong with the oil. It doesn't feel right." That's what started the harrowing chain of events that has finally come to a happy conclusion. The car runs as good if not better than it ever did.

So what was it that caused the fuel in the oil problem?

injectors/regulator

Glad to hear is was a easy fix. Sometimes the easy ones will make you pull your hair out.

Delighted to hear this one has a happy ending Tommy! Hang on to that wife, sounds like she is a keeper.