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BrianCunningham | E85 making cents | ||
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http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091223/CARNEWS/912229990
Quote: Overall, E85 use cut our fuel economy to 12.3 mpg--a reduction of 16.3 percent versus unleaded (though with no noticeable effect on vehicle power or performance). But thanks to significant E85 cost savings, our loss of fuel economy was offset by a commensurate 16.7 percent reduction in fuel cost. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 17:59
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pianoguy | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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I was noticing the huge disparity in price yesterday - regular was 2.65 and E85 was somewhere around 2.05.
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 18:12
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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bogus | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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it's the only way to make E85 palatable to the non-environmentalists.
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 18:25
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CentralCoaster | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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What it fails to mention is that federal subsidies pay for over 50 cents per gallon of the ethanol.
So basically the government already took that much of it out of your wallet before you even got to the gas station. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 18:52
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BrianCunningham | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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and how much $$$ is going overseas when you buy a gallon of gas?
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 20:00
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Sweet90 | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
I didn't realize we were overseas now :toothy3: Jim |
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 20:11
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Ultraman | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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I was glad to read that article. Being from Nebraska and within a few miles of 4 ethenol plants it would be good to have this stuff more widely accesable. I bought a year end deal Tahoe with the flex fuel 5.3 engine in it and sorry to say have not even used it in my own vehicle yet. We have two outlets for E85 here in town. I do know it has real high octain and would work well in higher compresion engines as long as everything is set up for it. I hear it is very corrosive.
As far as the subsidies are concerned the Government has always subsidized farming. With the decent commodity prices at this time the farmers are not getting the big price support checks that they normally get. I would rather see subsidies go to this type of thing. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 20:24
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Matatk | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Around here E85 isn't that much cheaper, so it doesn't make such sense.
Did you read some of the comments on that article? Quote:
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 23:10
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flyboy | Re: E85 making cents | ||
Elite Guru
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In other words, it's a huge hoax. I move we make it E100, bottle it, and sell it at the same price per gallon. It would be great in the New Year's Eve punch bowl.
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 23:22
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pianoguy | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Yep, it is a shell game.
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Posted on: 2009/12/29 23:42
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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BrianCunningham | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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say what you want, it's still a great racing fuel
I wish there were more stations around here. alcohol loves BOOST |
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Posted on: 2009/12/30 14:12
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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CentralCoaster | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
Subsidy = behavior tax. I'd rather not see any subsidies at all. Let supply and demand dictate which energy sources are used. If a small minority think they are saving the planet by buying ethanol, let them pay more, but don't force me to. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/30 16:55
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Ultraman | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Farming is one of the only businesses that the producer does not get to set his end price. It is dictated to him by supply and demand. Yet his input prices are set by his suppliers of Chemicals and seed and fertilizer. We would all be better off if there was no subsidies but it has been put in place to keep the large swings of the pendulum in check. Farmers for the most part don't want handouts, they want an honest pay for a days work and the Govt wants cheap food prices.
The idea that there are folks starving to death in other parts of the world because we are putting corn to use for ethenol is BS. The mash is still being used to feed cattle, the cobs are ground up to make all kinds of stuff and now they are buying the corn residue to pelletize and inject into the coal fired electrical plants to make what comes out the stacks cleaner. Other then a few totillas, what can you do with a bushel of number 2 yellow to feed people? We just borrow the starch and sugars to make some shine. Most of the countries that have hunger problems are so corrupt that the bad guys control the people by controlling the food sources. Using our corn to make fuel isn't going to change that. The fuel is ineficient, not doubt, but so is the energy required to crack a gallon of crude. It is another fuel source that is produced locally and is an alternative to overseas oil. Whoever controls it will tax it and us. It is not the answer long term but it keeps a lot of folks employed at present and gives the farmer another place to sell his grain. Nobody is squandering fertilizer,fuel or water tilling acres that are better served going elsewere. We are closing in on 300 bu/acre corn production here in the corn belt with the advances in seed tech and genetics leading the way. Gone are the days of flinging deadly chemical around with airplanes because the protection is in the seed. We do spray fungicides yet but that too shall go away in a few years. They are coming to market with drought corn that will raise the same amount of corn as we now do only with a lot less water. We have monster piles of corn around here that will all be gone by next year and a lot of it goes on unit trains and is sent to the Great Lakes for shipping to other markets than ethenol. Ok kids thanks, the rant is now officially over. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/30 19:08
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CentralCoaster | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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The genetically altered corn isn't even edible now until it goes through all the processing, nor is it nutritious. Honestly ethanol is about all it's good for anymore.
One argument is that the energy required to produce ethanol from corn has a worse impact on the environment than processing crude. We've got lots of crude that isn't being touched. And we have an assload of natural gas resources. Not sure why that isn't utilized more. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/30 23:19
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Ultraman | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Or just let them drill offshore and get the shale oil headed to the refineries. We do have pipelines going through the area that will carry that to the processing plants. And what about the windpower thing, we have several wind farms coming into Nebraska. Those towers and generators are pricy. I think power will come from a lot of sources in the future. They do have corn that is especially for ethenol plants that is taking off next year my seed people tell me. Appreciate your thoughts.
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Posted on: 2009/12/30 23:46
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Matatk | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
Windmills will be the energy sources of the future, along with solar farms, IMHO. As they are more readily available and people invest more research dollars into them, the prices will drop. I think eventually homes will run off of their own solar paneled roofs, with power companies/infrastructure in place as a back up. Look at computers. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 14:00
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Sweet90 | Re: E85 making cents | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
Play on words Kevin Jim |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 16:45
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CentralCoaster | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
Wind and solar are two free forms of energy, yet are the most expensive to produce. But yeah, as technology marches on, it will be cheaper to harness, and as price of fossil fuels rise, it will start becoming more cost effective to use solar and wind. I understand the intent of incentives... it's to invest in a new technology, basically paying for the groundwork because the oil producers won't. They are easily abused and manipulated though. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 17:01
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Matatk | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
At this point. But the cost has been coming down already. Hence my analogy to computers. How big was a computer in 1970. How much did it cost? Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 19:46
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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CentralCoaster | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
A bunch. But the government didn't use your tax dollars to print coupons for computer purchases. The development was demand driven (yeah, including government contracts), but there was a profit to be made, so naturally, private industry invested their money in it. Ethanol on the otherhand, has no demand because it is inferior and more expensive than the alternatives. Nobody would touch it if the government wasn't giving out coupons at the pump. It also isn't a long term answer and therefore isn't worth spending my tax dollars on to subsidize it's development. |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 20:07
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Matatk | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
Of course they did! The government, in fact the military specifically, saw the vast benefits of the computer. The internet itself was intended for use as a national security network. http://www.msichicago.org/scrapbook/s ... ibits/commex/history.html http://www.dia.eui.upm.es/asignatu/sis_op1/comp_hd/comp_hd.htm Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 20:27
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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Matatk | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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No fair editing your answer while I'm posting
But I agree that ethanol is a short sighted solution and has no long term impact. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 20:28
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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BrianCunningham | Re: E85 making cents | ||
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Quote:
Nobody? |
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Posted on: 2009/12/31 21:50
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