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| Steve40th | UPDATE: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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I want you guys to be apart of this too, so here it is.
Cut/pasted from another forum. Until I get notifications its hard to surf over here. Well, I went down the wonderful path of taking my damaged 4L60 out after finally getting money to get her fixed, again. Couple things I noticed. Fluid was nasty, and the pan in the transmission and the one I drained the fluid into was defiitely dark. Torque converter. It had exactly 3/16" gap when all the way into the transmission, yet the transmission shop took all that gap out and pulled it all the way to the flexplate, with no washers etc. I think that is BAD, and after searching the internet forever it was true. One of the cooler lines was already rounded, yeah for me. Its the one closest to the Servo housing, so I had to cut the line (flare it later.). Converter is painted silver, yes its a Vigilante but they fubarred it up when they did the last transmission build and painted it after they cut it open. It will be shipped back to Precision Industried for a rebuild. YEAH. The Governer plate wasnt all the way flush with the transmission case. See Pic. Filter was black. Before I take it to the shop I am going to try to at least do a pump check with the dial indicator, or do it when I get there. I am going to ask the builder to take pictures of the build, especially on the pump end play. Other than that, I am kinda tired of this crap. Any suggestions etc for checks etc before going to the shop. The guy I am taking it to is very good, good reputation etc. [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2253.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2255.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2258.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 2:43
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| Aboatguy | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Steve,
Good to see that you finally started working on getting the vette back on the street. Mike |
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 3:27
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| bogus | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Step one is always the toughest.
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 3:34
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Hopefully the longest item turnaround will be the converter going to/from PI.
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 3:34
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| Matatk | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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So is the damage due to improper installation from the last shop, or running it hard?
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 14:21
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Matt, Soon I hope to find out. I ran autocross about three times, which was second gear only and was short from 30-50 seconds. So, I am not saying running it hard is possible in that time, but not likley.
The converter gap, or lack thereof as they pulled it forward to the flexplate, might be one thing. I am not expert, or have the knowledge of Pete. But, After the valve body TV valve sticking and not having the basic parts of the shift kit in there, tells me it was poor attention to assembly. We'll see when it comes apart if there are any tell tale signs. Regardless, when she goes back in. Attention to detail of install and TV cable adjustment will be my responsiblity as I am doing it this time. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 18:33
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| pianoguy | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Too bad Pete doesn't make house calls - Hawaii is very nice this time of year ;-)
Best of luck! |
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 18:52
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
I have a spare room Pete ;) |
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 19:06
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| bogus | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Check United, they are doing deals to Hawai'i right now!
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 19:44
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Wow. Is there any recourse against the previous shop?
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/2/7 20:27
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
Nope, Its funny because he is now the largest advertiser on Oahu for transmission repair now. His F430 is sweet though. I am sure I made at least one payment on that for him Seriously though, I found out he used to have a transmission shop in Arizona, and was asked to leave due to business practices. His name isnt even what he uses here. Shady person, as one person here who knows his background layed it on me. Sad. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/8 0:55
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| pr0zac | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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I hate people that sell products that they know are not done right and as long as a majority of them don't come back their doors stay open. I will never run an auto that I cannot rebuild myself. As much as I love a large stall until I get some serious time in the innerworkings of an automatic transmissions I won't own one. That really sucks that you are in this position. I have been there a few times with my trans am. with any luck you will gain the knowledge to do it yourself.
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Posted on: 2010/2/8 2:18
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Being stuck here in Hawaii makes it a little tougher. If I was back in SC, it would have been shipped to a reputable company or Pete, if he had the time..
Regardless, If I could afford the tools I would do it all myself, as I could take my time etc. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/8 4:30
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| pr0zac | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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well i would hate to have the problem of being stuck in hawaii..
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Posted on: 2010/2/9 2:56
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
Well, living and working here are different than being on vacation. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/9 3:24
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Well, no pics yet. But builder has had it for a week. I had to go to Okinawa, came back and he had all, well most internals done. The pump? is out getting trued? as he said it wasnt very flat. He is waiting on a couple minor things and the rest should be done in a few days. He is doing it after regular hours, as there is less rif/raf coming in. He said 3/4th were fried. Based on the pump, torque converter being alittle further out, he blieves it may have just had too much clerance within the pack. He said it is hard to tell as he didnt build it and no real smoking gun is showing itself.
Vigilante is sending converter back, as it was freshened up. Vicki asked if I wanted to "upgrade" it while it was apart and change the stall. Bit my tounge and said leave it. So, 2800 stall single clutch, yet painted pink. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 6:50
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| Trae1976 | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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2012 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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Quote:
Steve40th wrote: I'm curious where you found that info. The 4L60 may be different, but I just recently got a 700R4 mated to my engine, and I also had about 3/16" gap. However, Bowtie Overdrives' instructions specifically state that should be the case, and that no gap is a symptom of improper converter engagement. Curiosity got me, so I looked it up on their site. This is directly from their Intallation Guide: Quote: The best way to be absolutely certain that the converter is fully indexed into the front pump is to place the transmission/converter assembly up against the back of the engine. The bolt lugs on the converter should not be touching the flex plate. There should be a gap between the flex plate and the converter bolt lugs. With the transmission bolted to the engine, this gap should be approximately 3/16 but no more than ¼. (If the gap is larger than ¼, precision shims must be installed to obtain the proper gap before the converter bolts are installed.). Before installing the bolts into the converter lugs you will need to slide the converter forward to the flex plate. If a gap doesnt exist, the converter isnt indexed into the pump properly. To get it to index into the pump, you need to continue turning the converter, at the same time, applying slightly inward pressure until it fully engages. Another easy way to check when using a full size converter is to try and slide your fingers between the converter and the pump housing. If you can, the converter isnt fully engaged. This test doesnt apply to the smaller v-6 or small diameter high stall converters. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 14:23
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| pr0zac | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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4th gear is the combination of the 3rd gear clutch pack and the 2nd gear band. i learned a bunch about the 4l60e when my trans am went through 8 of them. the original, 1 from a guy on camaroz28.com that later got banned for selling shit parts, 3 from performabuilt(lasting anywhere from dead from the start to 200 miles), a stock one from fparts.com(lasted the longest at 8000 miles) and 2 from a shop in jacksonville. then i sold it. it was not the car.. i had 3 different pcms and engine wiring harnesses.
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 14:27
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
A few builders recommended different gaps from converter to flexplate, a 3/16ths was too much. Each builder is different, as PeteK has said several times. We'll see when I get her back, and in. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 15:26
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Various pics from parts taken out of transmission
[IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2274.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2273.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2272.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2271.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2270.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2269.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2268.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2267.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2266.jpg[/IMG] Bent plate. Look near the extra boost valve and you will see if was bent over there [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2265.jpg[/IMG] Pieces and parts [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2262.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2010/3/4 4:58
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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It's usually best when getting work done to take it in there as a box of parts. Rebuilders love that.
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Posted on: 2010/3/4 6:49
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| PeteK | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Moderator
 
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I cannot believe how bad the forwards look. That is not typical. I suspect a possible broken forward apply piston.
If you like, you could step up to the molded steel apply pistons. Cheap upgrade. About $40 or so, but requires the 98 and up return spring assembly. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/4 17:52
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Which ones are those you speak of.
There were things wrong to me, and I am not even a transmssion guy. I think it wasnt built with any precision, as it seems to have been slapped together, IMHO. The transmission has been rebuilt. As soon as I bend my new cooler lines, and get my converter back, it will go in. Pray for me to the transmission sympathy Gods, as all I want to do is drive this darn thing. Also, would a broken/cracked piston cause the transmission to take a bit of time to go into gear, from park to reverse. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/5 2:29
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Update:
Transmission is in, with the exception of two top bolts. Went ahead and adjusted the dreaded tv cable. At idle its not touching the tv valve, but very very close. At WOT it pushes the valve all the way in. So.. I should be good?? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/10 6:04
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| bogus | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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The TV is set with a torque wrench... don't remember the steps off hand, tho.
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Posted on: 2010/3/10 6:24
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
I used the FSM, 1/8" drill bit, and a inch/#'s torque wrench. You release the throttle cable, disconnect the cruise cable, release the other cable and unlock the tv cable. You then put the bit in the ASR holes which lock all three cable reals together,. then you go clockwise and torque it to 71 inch #'s. Hold it, lock tv cable, remove torque wrench, then floor the throttle to reset the throttle linkage. I did it several times and the same result. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/10 7:27
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| Aboatguy | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Hurry up and get those last two bellhousing bolts in that puppy....Good to see/read that you are almost back on the road...
Mike |
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Posted on: 2010/3/11 0:05
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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I am hurrying. I need to assist in home preps for open houses as we are trying to sell too.
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Posted on: 2010/3/11 4:18
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| Aboatguy | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
I believe you need to get your priorities in order! I spent the week before my last deployment pulling an engine....calling around the country procuring parts..and getting the sucker back together IOT spank a blown Cobra before I left for 6 month of fun in Baghdad I forgot I had to get my 2 quarterly jumps in too....Just putting it out there. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/11 17:59
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Check, I will get on it tonight. I went to three different stores just to get ATF fluid. Gotta love Hawaii.
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Posted on: 2010/3/11 23:22
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| Aboatguy | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Well Jefe' how did it go?
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Posted on: 2010/3/12 23:03
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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With the exception of putting the pan back on and exhaust, I am stuck here. I have adjusted the TV cable several times yet it sets this far from the plunger. It goes to WOT fine, and the throttle goes to WOT fine, but upon return the tv lever goes out quite far. The plunger is as far out as it can go, so hydraulics wont send it further towards the lever. I asked Pete to see if I am okay or can I adjust the TV cable a little out to put the lever at the plunger at idle.
Cant afford to screw this little procedure up. [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2284.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2010/3/13 2:52
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| Aboatguy | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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I can't help you there...my LT1s have the 4l60E....NO TV Cable..
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Posted on: 2010/3/13 11:26
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Well, I went and adjusted to here, as it was less than an 1/8"
No being impatieint, just seems that you want the lever to start at the front right on the plunger, and fully in when at WOT. [IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d80/Steve40th/DSCF2287.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2010/3/13 18:02
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| volzfan | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
Okay, I'm no expert on this.......in fact, I'm as far from it as it gets, and I'm sure there are folks here that know whether that issue is a problem or not, however I just can't let this go without at least telling you what Trae and I got into with his 700R4. We had the exact same issue with the TV linkage..........and the instructions from Bow Tie Overdrive were explicit that the plunger had to extent all the way out, on it's own (if you could pull on it, and it would come further, it was not good)........that if it did not, it could cause a failure in the trans. Trae called them, told them what we had, and they recommended a Trans-Go kit to correct the problem. He got the kit, and we installed it, and it indeed forced the TV plunger to the end of it's travel. Now, like I said, this may not be a problem at all, but I would really feel bad if I didn't post something, and then later you came on here with a problem related to that. So, from our experience only, and not from any other knowledge, claimed or otherwise, please take it for what it's worth. Good luck!  |
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Posted on: 2010/3/13 23:40
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'98 Coupe, LS1, Corsa Pace Car Exhaust, WCC "X-Pipe", Blackwing CAI, C6 Z-06 wheels, Custom two tone (Pewter/Black) Seat Skins from "Corvette Originals" Vettes of the Smokies |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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The plunger is all the way out on its own, as I did pull on it. It does have a Trans-Go shift kit within too.
It may come down to GMs procedure using the torque wrench. It is a very good wrench, and calibrated. I used a machine and calibrated it for a 71inch/#'s. So, I know what the wrench needed to be set to to get 71inch/#'s. Now as the ASR section is clicking, I had to feel the click on the wrench. That is why I did it several times. I dont think GM intended the lever to be that far off. Bowtieoverdrives write is very good as well as the pictures to help you see. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 2:22
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| volzfan | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
Hey, great to hear that. Like I said, I really don't know much about this, but I just could not "let it go" without at least making mention of what we did. I would hope someone would do the same for me, if there was a question in their mind.  |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 14:37
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'98 Coupe, LS1, Corsa Pace Car Exhaust, WCC "X-Pipe", Blackwing CAI, C6 Z-06 wheels, Custom two tone (Pewter/Black) Seat Skins from "Corvette Originals" Vettes of the Smokies |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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UPDATE:
FAIL!!!!!!! Worked good on stands, set fluid. Used PeteK's procedure to get all the fluid in, each gear 30 seconds etc. Reverse was fine, but wouldn't come out of first gear. I could pull it down and hold first, but it wouldn't go out, even if I manually shifted. It went through all the gears on the stands. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 21:03
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Took governor out, seems good. Nothing broken and internal valve moves easily.
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 2:22
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| Aboatguy | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Steve, what's the status of your vette?
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Posted on: 2010/3/27 13:16
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Still in the shop. After putting it in I had no 2/3/4th gear.
Had a conversation with Dana (ProBuilt), builder of the transmission and Trans Go. Two problems. I checked pressure in park, 80 at idle and 175ish at WOT, but pulling tv cable. But wouldnt shift. Builder swapped valve body, shift fine, but pressure wouldnt go above 80 psi. So, Dana/TransGo and builder are working it. They think its in the valve body or boost valve/Pr valve area. Builder is not charging me as he feels its his fault. Great, but... Can I throw a 92 valve body in? What about TCC switch then? PeteK? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/29 0:12
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| pr0zac | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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holy shit.
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Posted on: 2010/3/29 4:38
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| PeteK | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
Ditto. If the valve body switchout allowed it to shift, and (at the same time) caused a failure for line pressure to rise, something is likely amiss in the checkball, separator plate, or valve body gaskets. Without having it on the bench here, I could not begin to guess. I still think the root of the problem is a new transgo valve binding in the valvebody. They are know for it in the 93 model year. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/29 18:25
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
Thanks for the help. Will a 92 valve body work? TCC wiring? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/30 3:47
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| PeteK | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Quote:
Any 88-92 valve body will work, with the matching separator plate, and checkball arrangement. Wiring is no bighie also, but you would need both wiring diagrams side by side to confirm wiring and pressure switch combinations. I have not done it in a while, but do not remember it to be terrible difficult. If replacing the valvebody is an option, PATC has a stock of brand new 1993 valve bodys. Assuming they have not sold out by now. They had alot of them, so I dont think it is likely. I only suggested changing valvebodies if you wish to elininate the transgo kit. I know a few guys that owned 1993 model year transmissions that had enough, and removed it. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/30 13:20
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Thanks. I will give Dana etc a chance. I will look on PATC site for a valve body.
PATC site and their ebay site have the valve bodys listed as 1987-93, so I emailed to see what they have. http://www.transmissioncenter.org/700r4_valve_body.htm |
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Posted on: 2010/3/30 16:00
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| pr0zac | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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man.. i feel your pain. this sucks.. i hope that its something easy and this is the last issue for a long while.
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Posted on: 2010/3/30 23:16
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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Me too. I went by the shop and we were able to get pressure up to 160 at WOT in Park (throttle body disconnected) and 60 at idle.
At this pressure it will burn-up. The builder is going to take the valve body off and check some internal valve, check the design of it for Dana. Other than that, very frustrating. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/31 2:37
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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PATC doesnt sell the valve body anymore.
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Posted on: 2010/3/31 2:44
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| Steve40th | Re: My 4L60 is out of the Vette. | ||
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I may have found a valve body, Bulkpart says they have two available for the year I asked for.
R74740H Valve Body, (1 Switch) Auxiliary Type $152.96 R74740J Valve Body, (2 Switch Side By Side) Auxiliary Type $152.94 |
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Posted on: 2010/3/31 18:31
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