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| biggrizzly | How to buy engine components? | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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Are engine rebuild kits junk?
It seems they have a lot of stuff you might not need and some other stuff that might not be that great in quality. Worse case scenario I will need to buy a crank, connecting rods, bearings, gasket sets, etc. If I do have to do a crank and rods I might really consider the 383 unless I find some great reason to stick with the 350. But trying to find a place to start is difficult. Does anyone have a nice little shopping list of items needed to do a decent middle duty (street/strip) 383 rebuild on an LT1? |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 14:54
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Master Guru
 
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From what I have seen buying a shortblock is cheaper than piecing together
however since you already have the block idk for sure there are good kits out there. Are you building yourself or have a machinist? |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 15:17
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| biggrizzly | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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I'm still thinkin' on that. PeteK said he knows some good shops up his way for machinge work and he is not that far from me, perhaps 3 or 4 hour drive. I need to ask around the racer guys in my club to see what they got to say too. I feel confident that I can assemble myself but might run into technical issues too big for myself. So, it might be better to let someone that is experienced do it. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 15:22
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Master Guru
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I rebuilt my 350 gen 1 into a 383 when I was 17 with my dads tool chest and a chilton lol. clearanced the block. beat the piss out of the stock pan and I think it did pretty well. No issues after 15,xxx miles. Gets 17.6mpg with my heavy foot and auto.
Its a way to save money and thats why i do things myself unless I dont have the tools. Everyone here goes to the same engine builder but I live in a 300,000 population town (fattest city FTW). He only bored and honed my block and recut my valves in my heads. PeteK looks to do badass work on anything he touches and should steer you right. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 15:31
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| rklessdriver | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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For parts.
Your going to get the best selection and price via mail order warehouses. Your going to get the best service from the smaller racer oriented ones. I would suggest 2 of these places. http://www.CNC-Motorsports.com/ http://www.competitionproducts.com/ Both companies sell good parts and have knowlegeable sales/tech staff. They are big enough to offer prices competitive with Summit and Jegs without you having to dealing their moron $2 and hour phone people. As to kit or the peice at a time method of building the short block. If a company offers a kit that has the proper fittament, displacement, compression ratio, quality of parts, ect at a price your willing to pay there is no reason not to buy a kit. Eagle and Scat both offer many rotating assy kits that fit a big majority of peoples needs. If your dead set on using a particular type/brand of rings/brgs, want special features like a light weight crank and rods ect - your better off buying the componets seperate and doing it peice by peice. Some times you can build in little custom touches (that will really make a difference in how it performs) to your engine for less or the same price as a regular old run of the mill 383 kit. Even on street cars I prefer to use certain brands and types of parts, so I peice together things. What you do depends on how much power you intend to make and how hard you intend to spin it. Keep in mind that it is always better to "over build" on the quality than put lesser parts on the edge of their HP capability. Will |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 16:29
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| PeteK | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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The machinists that I am associated with all started out doing street stuff, and graduated to all out race stuff (as most do). They always offer free recommendations of proven parts combinations, pro's and con's. It kinda comes down to budget vs quality. I do think that rotating assemblies should be bought piece by piece, tweaked as needed, final balanced and installed. Never trust a pre balanced kit, unless you completely trust the seller. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:03
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| Matatk | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Webmaster
 
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Don, as you know, I kicked this around for a while before I did mine. After hearing everyone say "oh it's only pennies more to build a 383" I fell into that belief. It's not true. It can add up to significantly more. My scat rotating assembly was around $1100. Crank, rods, pistons. Plus balancing was another $300 with mallory. Stroker clearance add $100. New flexplate and harmonic balancer because my builder said a 383 should always be internally balanced, $150. Etc. If your 350 crank only needs polishing, you're looking at like $50. Add in some budget pistons for $250 if you are boring it out. If you're not and you can get by with a cylinder hone, even cheaper. Bottom line is there are many different levels of an engine build. Everything from bargain basement garage builds to high cost racing builds.
As far as piecing it together, I had my builder supply all the parts. That way he is warrantying them. If I brought them to him, there is no warranty. Also, since he's a distributor for every major brand, he can get them all and then give me a price comparable to market prices. Here's an example of a zz383 crate motor - $5250 http://www.jrgmparts.com/GM_Performan ... _zz383_crate_engines.html I paid less than that, but I feel I have some better components in mine. You can get cheap fleabay 383s for around $4,000, but they are sketchy at best if you ask me. That's why I asked for recommendations and got a quality engine builder. Certainly not a "budget" builder, as I found out, but high quality none the less. Shoot me another PM if you have more questions and we can discuss some more personal stuff or give me a call on my cell. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:06
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| PeteK | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Matt,
Did he at least sell you forged pistons for that much money? The Scat rotators I sell are $1100 out the door and include: Scat Cast crank Scat I beam rods Hyper pistons Balanced to use stock type neutral balancer and stock weight external balancer New Scat SFI flexplate New stock balancer Rod bearings Main bearings Moly rings Balanced with 2 slugs of Mallory. I only charge $50 to clearance for stroker, and $400 to assemble. My prices may be going up. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:20
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Matatk | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Webmaster
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Pete, I sent you a PM.
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:28
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| BillH | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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Assembling it yourself can be done but the warrenty is all on you and building a 383 does require the small mods Pete mentioned. I'd take Pete's advice. Or. http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/lt1_lt4.html 383 short block w/3 year warrenty - $2,999 |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:29
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| Matatk | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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That's cheaper than I thought. Not a bad route. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:35
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| BillH | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Supposed to have a good rep, I don't have any experience with em. If I didn't build my own motors, I seriously consider the shipping charges to send one to Pete. I know excellence when I see it. And unless you know the machine shop or someone (like Pete) has a bunch of experience with them, you stand a chance to get a half ass job. I've had "recommended" machine shops do work I wasn't satisfied with. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:41
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| PeteK | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Moderator
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Warrantee is a funny thing. Let me explain.
Engine part manufacturers guarantee their stuff to be first quality, and match the specifications of their published literature. It is the assemblers responsibility to quality check a new part. Once it is touched with a tool, or set in a block, they will void the warrantee. Therfore, resizing rods that are an asshair off, or even balancing a crank (nescessary) voids the warranty. When something unusual occurs, the parts manufacturer will always blame it on installation, balance, or tune up. If all else fails, they will blame it on abuse. If they are in a very good mood that day, and a connecting rod has blown a hole in the side of the block, they will provide 1 rod free of charge, and you will pick up the shipping. Most builders make about 10% of the total bill in profit, so they are never usually willing to eat a failure, because they can't really afford to. Maybe they will provide some free machine work and assembly, but that is about it. If you think about it, it is kinda fair. If everyone does their job right, and the tune up is right, they live. Crate motors are a whole different story. When they fail, they usually just blame abuse, and deny the claim. Anyhow, my point is that there are written warranty's and guarantee's, but in reality, they are non existent. You spend your money on the best you can afford to do, and take your chances. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 18:46
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Aardwolf | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I had a local race builder work on mine. This is a 355 with a 6" rod and a hot cam. I reused the stock crank. You could save money and reuse the rods. Also I used a forged piston, you can save cost there too. I thought of going 383 but that up classes me for racing. And I'm not sure about how the inexpensive ($280ish) Scat cranks hold up for road racing. I traded my door panels for the cam so that's not in the bill either. Here is the bill:
[IMG]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o130/Aardwolfki/bill.jpg[/IMG] He said he would charge $75 for 383 clearance work. It looks like a 355 can be built around $1000 and about $1500 for a 383 short block, assembled. Pete, it looks like he charges similar to you just in different ways. More for balancing but less for assembly. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 19:55
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| Matatk | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Wow his work is cheap. I shopped around a bit and those are low prices. $200 for assembly? Wow.
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 20:28
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Aardwolf | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Senior Guru
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He works at comp, the site listed above. I'm sure he gets a nice discount on parts, but doesn't pass it along. So he's making some there! He said comp has been selling a LOT of rotating assemblies. His co-worker hasn't had time for any other work. 5-8 per day!
I normally do as much work myself as I can but I had him build the rotating assembly. Once it was in the block I started putting it together. I'm pretty far, here's a pic: [IMG]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o130/Aardwolfki/engine1.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 20:49
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| vis_croceus | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Anybody thinking about a Golen should spend some time reading up on them on the various LTx forums. Very mixed results. |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 22:53
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| Matatk | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Webmaster
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Slightly off topic, but I see your motor mounts on the block. Did you pull the engine this way with the trans still in the car? I unbolted my motor mounts because I didn't think there was enough wiggle room. If there is I'll install them before I drop it in. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 23:28
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Danspeed1 | Re: How to buy engine components? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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You have alot more to consider than just, "should I build it myself or have someone else do it?"
I believe for the most part in doing things the "correct way." Try not to spend yourself out of house and home and build within your budget, but don't cut corners if you can help it. Whats funny is that I have had a few cars over the past couple of years I spent some pretty decent $$ on. Now I never had a "problem" with them, but they are all gone (sold). On the other hand, the one car I can justify cutting corners constantly is my 95 Monte Carlo picture below... which now has 215,000 miles. Its put together with spit and glue, and knock on wood, it keeps running. Meanwhile, I had the car almost 6 years, the longest I have owned any car. Moral of the story, you can probably get by for less if you have to... and by the time you "think" you may have problems or the engine may be worn to the point it needs another rebuild, the car will probably be long gone. So don't stress over insignificant things like intake manifold porting for example... cost vs improvement its just not worth it. One more very quick story. When I was in high school a local guy (not the best student) had a Olds 442 with a 307 he built out of mismatched junk parts he had lying around and was given for free. The engine didn't even look pretty, I remember he saying it cost about $400 total including the extremely basic homemade nitrous kit. I watched this guy race muscle car after sports car, foreign and domestic and beat each and every one. Then after summer was over he sold the junk car for top dollar. I hate guys like this! Why can't it be me? That should give you something to chew on. DG |
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Posted on: 2010/5/7 23:52
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