Until now I've had a reman unit from Advance Auto on the car. The factory starter quit back in 2005 when the car was still stock and had about 50,000 miles on it. I've had 2 different remans on the car and they both have "hot start" problems on the 383 where the soleniod gets hung up and I have bang on it with a pry bar to get it cranked... This is really inconvienient in the staging lanes or a parking lot... god forbid I stall it at a traffic light around here.

So I finally broke down and bought an aftermarket racing starter. My dad tends to use Tilton or Powermaster in his shop but we haven't used this particlar model before. This is one of their higher end starters and their tech dept said it was the best suited for use on an everyday street car with the kind of compression and what not my engine has.




First off it's a real nice part. It's also a couple LBS lighter than the stock mini. At $175.00 it's actually not much more expensive than the remanned junk I have now.

The connections are on the side - which is different. I know the battery cable on my car runs under the bell housing and then forward to the starter, so it's not going to be a problem but I don't know if the start wire from the switch is going to be long enough or not.

I'll get to work changing it Saturday. Hope I can get the factory one out of there without taking the header off....
Will

I really like Tilton.

But, you can't get a Tilton for $175.

Hope it works well, we need a report after the install.

Ive had a mini race starter sitting on the shelf since november. I really need to get off my ass.

I've been thinking about replacing my starter too. The ignition wire lug popped out when installing my headers. Dad and I did some shade tree trick to get it back in and stay.

I can make this thread a place holder.

I'll take some pics when I swap them out Saturday and post them up.

Plan on giving that Advance Auto POS one more beating tomorrow as it's Friday and I like to drive the car to work when the weather is acceptable.

Need to put a few easy miles on the 4.11 rear end anyway.
Will

looks nice!

I am surprised you are having problems with the remanned starters, actually. The starter is a Mitsubishi design, and is very durable. All that ever wears out are these 2 metal contacts. I have an Advance Auto unit that has been in there for nearly 10 years. No problems. So unless the starter itself is limited on compression, I find your bad luck suprising.

However, Good luck with this starter! Hope it holds up!

I had my stocker rebuilt as it was showing heat problems before the 383. Now with the headers, the heat issue is worse so I don't know how long it will last. That looks like a very nice option for $175 is it works and takes the heat. I'm looking forward to the real world results.

Matthew

I was thinking about wrapping mine.

Quote:

Main reason I havent done mine is I will be making a shield as well. I never had BAD problems until I got my melrose headers. Now its horrible but I have a lil bypass that is badass.

I was going to wait until Saturday to swap it but I figured what the heck, I may as well get to it after work yesterday.

The stock starter came out really easy. The EM headers wern't in the way at all. Disconnect the start and battery wires, drop out the 2 bolts, rotate the starter body a little and it comes right out the side.

The Power Master starter... I had a number of problems. Where do I start?

OK the drive assy is located in a different location than the stock starter. I had to temporarly remove the lower bell housing dust cover as the hole is drilled in the wrong place. When I get some time I'll cut it out to fit.

That "Infini Clock Ring" assy is neat but there was no need to position the starter any other way but the same way the stock was oriented.

I had to bend the battery cable end to fit correctly on the starter (since the connection studs are on the side) and it's puts the battery cable closer to the header than I'd like. I may end up eventually making a new battery cable so I can route it differently....

The starter motor is bigger, so it takes quite a bit of jiggeling to get it past the header.

First time I get in there I notice that the outside bolt isn't going to be able to slide in there and start the threads because it's too long and hits the top of the header collector. I cut about 1" of threads off it. Now I can rotate the starter sideways to insert the bolt and rotate it back straight into position to start the threads. The inside bolt is easy to get in and out with a 6" extension. Of course when I was starting the threads it fell out and smacked me right between the eyes on the bridge of the nose... After a few curse words, I'm sure all the neighbours heard, I got the starter bolted up.

Next I notice there is no way to really see clearly how much free clearance I have between the starter drive pinion gear and the ring gear.... If I push my head up against the oil pan kick out and peer inbetween the pan and bell housing I can barley make it out and it's no where near the 1/8" of an inch recommended. I start to wonder how I'm going to check the starter drive to ring gear engagement?? I'm certainly not going to get any feeler gauges up in there.

I figure these things are billet alum and made in the USA by skilled workers, it's probally gonna be OK (factory starter was fine with no shim). I'll try it anyway..... hook the battery up and turn the key.... Fuckin battery is down to 11.3V and all I get is click. Drag out the booster pack, hook it up and notice the voltage is now 11.5V.... I'm getting slightly disapointed at this point. I grab the battery charger and hook it up. Wait a few mins and turn it over. SOB sounds like a Hampton 1471 turning over.... Yep drive engagement is way too tight in the ring gear. Glad the motor didn't fire.

Start to take it back out.... Notice a bunch of shiney metal shavings laying on the floor. Magnesium from the bell housing of course... Since the starter drive is in a different place it's hitting the bellhousing when the starter drive is out. I get it out and take a look.... Well it's clearanced now. I also noticed when removing it that the starter drive pinion gear was still out and hung up in the ring gear.... Again glad the motor didn't fire.

Once I get the starter off and on the ground I remove the Infini Clock Ring assy on the starter and install the .062 shim to get the free clearance I need and when reinstalling the starter I put both of the shims they sent on the starter pad to get some much needed clearance in the drive to ring gear engagement.

Reinstall the starter. Of course during reinstallation the inside bolt falls out and smacks me right between the f'n eyes on the bridge of the nose. I manage to get it bolted up tight and I push my head up against the oil pan kick out and peer inbetween the pan and bell housing I can barley make out I've got what appears to be 1/8+" of free play between the starter drive pinion and the ring gear. OF course still no way to pry the drive out and check the engagement but, heck I've got both shims on there... I may have to take it off and take on out right?? I hook up the wires and hook up the battery. Turn the key and it spinns over but still sounds like a roots blower.... then the engine fires.... starter is stuck in the ring gear for a milisecond but disengages.

At this point it's 9:30PM, I don't have any more starter shims, so I called it a night.

I took some pics and I need to put them on my photo bucket. I'll take a few more tonight after I stop by AutoZone and pick up a pack of starter shims and see if I can get the starter drive engagement sorted.

At this point I would not recommend anyone try to use the Power Master 9600 mini starter on a ZF6 C4 Corvette.
Will

Sucks, Will. Too bad Tilton's are so $$$$$.

BTW, My 92 starts on 11.3 and has been doing so for 5 years.
I gotta get a new battery one of these days.

And I was so looking forward to a reasonably priced quality replacement. I'm sorry, but I did chuckle at the bolt on the nose issue, only because I've done it do many times myself

Matthew

I did not take very many pics. I'm sorry. Working by myself, I tend to get started and push thru to get done...

I managed to remember that the camera was laying on the box about the time I got the factory starter out....

[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00035.jpg[/IMG]

Here is the Advance Auto reman factory POS.
[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00033.jpg[/IMG]

Here is the new starter in place getting rolled to the side so I can put the outside bolt in place.

[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00034.jpg[/IMG]

Here is the outside bolt. You can see when the starter is in position to start the bolts in the block - the outside bolt is right up agains the header collector....

[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00038.jpg[/IMG]

Here it is all buttoned up the first time.

[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00037.jpg[/IMG]

Here is the bellhousing where the starter drive was hitting and it eventually clearanced itself, somewhat....

[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00036.jpg[/IMG]

From here on out it's just wash and repeat fooling aorund with the shims....

I took it back apart this evening after work and the shims included were a total of .030... I installed the thickest one in my new package (.058) and tried it. I can actually see clearance in the starter to ring gear mesh - but the darn starter is still getting hung up in the ring gear for a milisecond once the engine fires off... it also sounds like there is too much clearance. I think it's still hitting the bellhousing inside somewhere causing the hanging up problem.

Toady I also re-routed the battery cable to behind the engine, along the top of the bellhousing/firewall area dropping it down to the starter. I feel much better with it up there mostly away from the headers.

I drove it to dinner tonight (about 25 miles total) and it started the same way every time. If tomorrow is good weather I'm just going to drive it around and put some miles on the rear gear. Sunday is forcasted for rain (like heck)... so Sunday I plan to remove the starter and take my die grinder to the bellhousing (if I can get it in there) and cut some more clearance for the starter drive. Then I'll put a shorter shim in it and try to tighten the mesh up some and see if I can get it to quiet down.

On our dinner drive tonight, my lovely woman commented on how quite the inside was with the new rear end (I explained how isolated it from the roll bar withsome rubber sheething) and how smoother it was under acceleration. I had to explain that she needen't worry it would still jerk your head off at WOT and that I wasn't really getting down on the throttle very hard because the rear gear was new....
Will

why not get this one? its listed for corvettes.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PWM-9502/

I saw that one after I spoke with their technical dept and but I had already ordered the one I have.... No idea why they didn't sell that one to me to begin with.

If I can't get this one to work right, I may give that one a shot.
Will

interesting, does an LT needs a different version?
mine looks like this:
[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2v3hved.jpg[/IMG]
I use a piece of .020 piano wire bent in an "L" shape with (about 3"x 1")for determining pinion to ring mesh.
There are few starter places around here that sell these brand new from 100.-125. ea. (with warranty). They are high torque/rpm that will support up to 16:1 comp. motors.

That looks like the solenoid is clocked a bit different, Mick. But I'm just going from memory.


Just did a quick check, different part nombers starting in 92.

Will, Is the part number on that starter 9600?

Quote:

Yes the one I'm trying to make fit is a 9600.

The problem seems to be that the pinion/starter drive on the 9600 appears to be located slightly higher and to the right of the factory starter. Thats why it's hitting the bellhousing when the drive is out/engaged.

I may try the other Powermaster 9502, which has the stock LTX style offset nose (Prozac linked) and try and sell this one (at a loss) if things don't work out tomorrow.
Will

the factory corvette one uses the long and short bolts for clearance. i have no troubles wiht my stock starter. the only problem i had was the bendix got messed up cause i was trying to start it with a weak battery. i just swapped it out with a parts store nose and other then that it has worked perfectly as long as the battery has enough to support it and i dont have to mod anything to make it work. i did zip tie my battery cable up out of the way of the header as much as possible. that and the rear o2 harness and wires in that area. they seem too close for comfort.

Quote:

Looks like that one's listed as 84 - 91.

Powermaster's site doesn't list specific car application.

Quote:

Yea that battery cable running under the bellhousing.... It goes right by the headers on BOTH fricken sides... That deal really bothered me....

I went on the drivers side and found the cable where goes thru a brace on the firewall and pulled it all out from under the car. Then I ran it along the rear of the engine compartment on top of the bellhousing and dropped it down and forward to the starter. It only remotely even comes close to the pass side header at the 02 sensor now. Much better than it was.
Will

Quote:

That looks like my proform I installed today. saturday my factory (yes 26 years old) starter didnt disengage during my 2nd run during autox. Did a field install on the mini high torque proform and it needed a single shim. Now it starts faster, easier, and sounds badass with the gear drive start

Sunday I was able to take it back off and look at where it was hitting the bellhousing.

It's clearanced itself with what looks like a nice plunge cut from an endmill... My die grinder was too big to get in there without removing the header so I left it alone.

I reshimmed it to a .030 shim and it is working/starting fine. Drove the car to work Monday and Tuesday with no problems. Plenty of underhood heat after 40mins of idling in DC traffic on the way home and I restarted it a couple of times once I got home and everything is solid.

I would have driven it today but rain was forecasted. Tomorrow looks better so I'll get to put some more miles on it.

All in all it is working fine now but there seem to be better fitting alternatives available.
Will