An exerpt from an anecdote at McNallyInstitute.com. While it is not
directly about C4s, it does speak to matters that C4 owners and forum
participants here might relate to.

How wide is your vision?

"When you fly as often as I do you sometimes find yourself sitting next
to a celebrity. Some years ago back, I had an occasion to fly with the
playwright Arthur Miller, and because of my Navy background the
conversation came around to submarines and nuclear power, when Mr.
Miller told me the following story.

He once had an occasion to fly cross country seated beside a nuclear
physicist. As they flew over the western part of the United States, Miller
noted that much of the scenery below was desert, unable to support a very
large population because of the lack of drinking water. The physicist
pointed out that some of the largest fresh water reserves on the earth
were located close by in the Rocky Mountains, but they were deep below
the ground and hard to get at. He said there was enough water below the
Rockies to sustain a population of two hundred million people with
no problem at all. He further stated that three atomic explosions carefully
placed could release this water.

Miller was impressed, but asked the nuclear physicist if the explosions
would not in fact contaminate the very water they were releasing? The
physicist thought about it for a couple of seconds and then pointed out
that contaminated water was not his field.

This is the same problem that we see through out our industry. People
with tunnel vision prepared to take action, with no thought about the
consequences of their actions, an example: ..."

For full text, click here

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Some great examples - a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, particularly not taking the big picture into account.

Hm... thought provoking, for sure.

Watch this space for a nuclear explosion.

.......

Definitely a case of the cure being worse than the disease!

I work in the power industry(electric power) . It is a know fact that the demand for power will triple by the year 2040. As it stands right now the industry is almost strechted to the limit when we have the heat of the past summer or the frigid cold of a bad winter. The power companies are trying to build plants to cover this shortfall but everyday they run into court battles with the Sierra club. The sierra club has stated that their sole purpose is to prevent anymore coal or nuclear plants from being built to protect the eviroment. This is all well and good, we will have a great enviroment and be sitting in the dark to watch it. So what is the answer ?

Give the Sierra Club a state they can call their own and the other 49 can get on with what needs to be done. Enough of this bull$#!+. I care for the environment but I don't want to live like a caveman. There needs to be attention paid to development and location. We need refineries too while we're at it. Let's open this country up and watch the economy soar and unemployment drop like a rock. Time to get some oil of our own, fire up some cleaner burning coal plants and invest heavily in alternitive fuel development. Let the atom smashing begin.

I AGREE. YOUR FLA GOVENOR HAS ALREADY BANNED ANY NEW COAL PLANTS IN YOUR STATE. I KNOW OF 2 NUKES THAT ARE ON THE DRAWING BOARD FOR FLA BUT ILL BET THEY ARE HOUNDED TO DEATH AND ARE NEVER BUILT.

Nuclear power has a bad rap in this country. A lot of that comes from the reality that we did much of the dangerous pioneering research.

The real problem? There are no two nuclear powerplants in this country that are the same. France has us dead to rights on this matter, they have a standardized design that flat out rocks.

If we were to ever start building plants again, we need to take the best design elements from each plant and combine them into a unified, consistant plan.

Coal burning plants have improved over the last 20 years. Insanely so. The upside is that existing plants can be upgraded to the newer standards.

We need to work towards getting fusion up and running. That will solve so many issues, it isn't even funny.

I don't necessarily think Florida needs coal firing plants. But states that are in areas where coal is readily available should take advantage of it. Florida has nuclear sites that are approved and are up and running for years now. Goverment red tape to get anything permitted today as in most regulated manufacturing sectors and production facilities require millions of dollars and years of applications just to get approval. My understanding is the existing facilities can apply for expansion being that the sites are already approved for the facilities that operate there. I've lived for almost 30 years by a nuclear plant and it's no more hazardous than living by a prison. Every once in awhile they have a break. Thats's why they have containment areas.
Here's a funny little fact. Turkey Point power plant has about 30 miles of cooling canals. In those canals live the bulk of the population of about 350 American crocidiles. The warm water discharge offers refuge to the manatees in cold weather, another endangered species. Not to forget countless species of wildlife that are givin a place to live in the buffer zones that surround the plant.
The waters around Florida hide massive amounts of crude oil just waiting to be extracted. Cuba, just 90 miles off the coast is already exploring their possibilities with the help of some major international concerns.
Maybe I'm getting all riled up over nothing. After the next Plague they'll be plenty of everything for everybody........... for those that survive it.

I think Nuclear power is the way to go too.

I was living in Pa. during the 3 Mile Island crisis and that has not deterred my
opinion that this is certainly the power of the future.

As far as getting our own oil, I understand there is plenty of oil in Alaska but the tree huggers don't want to drill there.

Man we have to start to get independant of the Middle East. Lets start drilling in Alaska and get this show on the road. The animals will be fine. I am all for the enviroment too and I am convinced that we can have both the oil we need and that the enviroment and wildlife along with nature will be fine. We just need to be responsible and use our heads.

Hell I deliver to a refinery in Mandan N.D. that sits right in a wildlife/nature preserve and the deer and turkeys come right into the refinery when we are unloading. The turkeys will actually sit on the pipes of the plant. Proof to me that nature and humans can make this work.

Time for us to get our heads out of our

Gary

There's a nuclear plant that was in the process on being built on Long Island. It brought jobs and tax income. So much tax income they built some better schools, etc. Property taxes were very low (considering the high property taxes on LI). The plant was supposed to provide cheaper electricity to LI.
A few miles in a near town another plant was proposed. The tree huggers got the proposed plant stopped, never started. Then they turned their attention to the previously mentioned plant. That plant actually fired up once or twice then was dismantled. The tree huggers won again. Property owners got socked with property taxes to make up for the loss of tax revenue.

In my area there was a proposed new interstate 3 lane highway connecting 95 to the PA turnpike. After almost 20 years of fighting the tree huggers the highway was finally constructed. The compromise with the tree hugger was the first 7 miles was to be 2 lanes. At rush hour it is so jammed that the sitting cars actually emit more pollution.

Man has always had to peacefully coexist with his enviroment. We have the technology to be "green" with most anything these days. It's time for us to get smart.

Maybe the Sierra Club can reduce their A/C power consumption to a point where they sweat so much, that nobody can stand their stink.

Opps sorry, I forgot. They don't shower to save water......

'em ALL

I haven't met any smart tree huggers yet. I'm starting to think it's more than a coincidence.

Coal is better than it used to be, but still, we need to bring back nuclear. Most of western Europe is powered by nuke plants. Also, coal plants produce more radioactive waste than nuclear plants.

http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html

Interesting to see the direction this thread has taken.

Although the example happens to involve an anecdote about nuclear
power, nuclear power is not central to the point that is made.
"How wide is your vision?" is about how much of the big picture
do we see.

I posted it after searching out supporting material for some comments
here. Turns out the comments were insupportable - something I haven't
been called on yet but which I still need to address.

Til then, the post at the top is my hair shirt.

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Quote:

NUCLEAR POWER


That's all I saw.

Quote:


We don't have a water problem, we don't have a food supply problem, we don't have a energy problem.




What we do have is a people problem. To many people are breeding and breeding often. And people are living longer.

Quote:

and it looks like you're doing your part.

Do your duty, do it in the booty.

Quote:
Well, the quoted passage in the initial post ends with

"People with tunnel vision prepared to take action, with no thought about
the consequences of their actions, an example:"

and a link to sixteen examples including

"16. The chemical manufacturer that blends chlorine with his cleaning
chemical or coating so that it will act as an antiseptic in the event the
customer has an open cut on his hands. He does not realize that the
chlorine he added will cause problems with the stainless steel that the
worker is cleaning or coating. Chloride stress corrosion problems are very
common in the process industry."

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Yeah but stress corrosion cracking and all the other stuff about pump manufacturing isn't as exciting as hippies protesting nuclear power! Plus most of the people in this thread don't know what 90% of the stuff in that article is.

There are always things working against each other. Nobody is a jack of all trades. That's why when I do design work, I have to rely on architects, building owners, city inspectors, etc for their input to make sure everything is coordinated and works together. All the parts may have tunnel vision, but the person above them needs the wherewithall to not know everything, but to realize he/she doesn't know, and how/where to find it.

Quote:

Where in the corn bread hell did you get this fairy tale?

corn bread hell!?... is there such a thing? I love corn bread!