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| jhammons01 | Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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So, I'm driving along and everything is good...then a regular stop light turns green, I gas it a bit and hear something. I turn down the radio and start to hear what sounds like a loose washer on a spinning shaft....like a bearing going bad almost....but
...only in First and Third gear and only at the lower RPMs (yes it is an '84 4+3) shit Gurus what does that sound like to you? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/19 23:37
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| pianoguy | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Guru Emeritus
 
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Sounds like time to get one of those nice Tremec 5-speeds?
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 1:16
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| bogus | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I would agree. The 4+3 is best replaced with a T500...
the entire package is just sooo much nicer... The shifter is shorter and internal, much more modern. You can always pickle the old 4+3 and OD unit incase it ever gets to the point where it matters. It's a 6 hr job... R&R... tops... |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 2:26
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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The T10 part is fine, it's the overdrive that has issues.
When's someone going to come out with a spool or something for that part? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 2:31
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Quote:
Yeah, and it only costs more than his car is worth. John, does it still rattle with the clutch in? Under acceleration? Coasting? Feathering throttle? Does overdrive effect it? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 3:10
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| cuisinartvette | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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[QUOTE]John, does it still rattle with the clutch in?[/QUOTE]
Ditto |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 3:12
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Only under 25% acceleration. Heavy acceleration and the noise is not prevalent.
Not when the clutch is in... Over drive was not used when I started hearing this |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 4:50
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| bogus | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
Don't be so quick to say that... The T10, over time, becomes as big a problem as the OD unit. They are ok boxes, but after 20+ years an a lot of miles, they get gnarly. Kevin, bmwgsa and now John here have all had various degrees of problem with the box. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 5:24
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
Still cheaper than a car payment. There is a fine line between value and worth... |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 5:25
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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So basically only when there's slack in the drivetrain.
Under load in either power or coast tightens it up. Causes the helical gears to ride against their bearing surfaces. Causes the springs in the clutch hub to load up. Hmmm. Just thinking out loud. Makes me wonder how bad it'd sound on jackstands at idle... |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 5:41
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Quote:
We're not sure about John's problems yet. As for me, I chewed the dogs off 1st and 3rd gear because I went drag racing without enough clutch fluid. I don't fault the 4-speed for that. Although the rebuild kits for them appear to be crap. I think they're a great setup other than the sloppy shifter and poor control strategy used on the overdrive. And that by the time the overdrive weaknesses were addressed, their reputation was already unsalvageable. Hell, I broke a ZF too. How many have done that? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 5:48
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| dan0617 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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IF it did it in any gear with all other symptoms the same I'd say U-joint. I've had them act exactly like that, no noise while slowing down or accelerating hard, but noisy under light throttle. If it really is only 1st and 3rd then it must be a problem in the tranny.
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 13:48
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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what is "chewing the Dogs off"? And if that is caused by too little clutch fluid, then wouldn't I have committed the same infraction due to my recent bout with the Clutch MC???
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 14:55
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| bogus | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I was thinking the exact same thing.
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 15:28
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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which two gears go out when the O/D goes out? Reverse and 2nd?
Could this be a symptom of that about to occur? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 19:17
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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while searching around, I came across a description that was good.
This noise sounds sort of like a Dieseling or bad fuel knock along with that spinning sound of a bearing going out......whirrrr whirrr clatter clatter whirrrr clatter But in on First and Third. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 19:33
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Do you use the regular clutch when you it the OD button?
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 20:05
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_________________
Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Senior Guru
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Yeah, I always push in the clutch in and out of OD
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 20:23
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Quote:
But that's wear issues more than design issues. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 20:35
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Senior Guru
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John, low clutch fluid wears out the synchros prematurely. Keep going, and it chews the dogs up.
This should have no effect on the trans noise. It will leave you with some metallic gear oil and cause the trans to pop out of gear occasionally when decellerating at high RPMs. Fixing worn dogs requires, well, throwing the transmission away. I don't think this is your problem though. Getting the car on jackstands and running it while crawling underneath should really exaggerate the clattering noise and allow you to pinpoint it. I just hate tearing stuff apart without knowing for sure where the problem is. Once the trans is off the car you lose the ability to diagnose anything. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 1:56
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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What does the gear oil look like?
How much is in there? When is the last time it was changed? Any metal on the magnetic drain plug? BTW, the common form of overdrive failure effects reverse gear only. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 1:59
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Reverse is fine....and since I put the new Clutch MC on, the thing is really shifting smoothly....smoother than it ever did since I've owned it.
I'll drain the Gear Oil Tomorrow. It sounds like you can get a rebuilt Super T-10 for around $500 |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 5:47
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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A nash version of it? They'd probably need yours.
I recall synchros plus bearings are about $200-$250. I'm having flashbacks already. Make it stop. I rebuilt mine a few times in a row due to some shims in the rebuild kit that weren't manufactured correctly. 2nd rebuild kit from a different source was the same way. I ended up paying another $100 to have this pos $2 shims machined down. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 20:26
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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I give up....it's not there today. No sounds at all.
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 21:02
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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I lied, its back.
It has to get really warm. Say above 200° F |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 22:54
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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So a lot was done to isolate this noise.
It is there when the OD is engaged but only in 3rd It is there in Reverse, First and Third. I can chug around the parking lot it it is loudest at low rpms. It is not there when the clutch is in. Only after the car starts to roll forward. I can shift from 1st to 3rd and keep the noise I can start in 2nd and shift to 4th and it is not there. I'm jacking it up to get the rear wheels off the ground. Then I'll let it roll and see if I can pin point it. Another sound that kind of describes it is....it sounds like a pneumatic pump pumping air bubbles....sort of. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 22:59
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Up on Jack stands. The noise is only there while in the Higher gears.
Not reverse, not 1st...barely in 2nd but in 3rd and 4th is is there..... But to be honest, and when I can get someone else to sit in the car and rev the motor while in 4th and slightly holding the brake......I'm think it is the left rear Half shaft coming apart at the U-joints...the inner one to be exact. I'm still confused why this noise is not there now and not there in 2nd and 4th while rolling down the road |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:47
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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My 13 year old just came home........The inside of that half shaft is about to fling apart.
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 23:54
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| pianoguy | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Guru Emeritus
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Whoa, that was a most fortunate find!
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 0:07
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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U-joint or rear end bearings?
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 0:54
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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How can I tell? Rear end being the pumpkin??
I seem to see the u-joint bouncing up and down.....and I can grab the half shaft and slight move it back and forth and roll it just a bit without the rest of the drive train moving. I sure hope this is the issue...I don't wanna deal with a crapped out tranny |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 1:57
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Does the shaft going into the pumpkin have any slop?
To check ujoint play I put my finger between the halfshaft and the yoke then put the ebrake on and car in neutral then rotate the driveshaft by hand back and forth. If the yoke and halfshaft move relative to each other, it's sloppy. If its bad of course, replace all 6. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 2:09
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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^^We replaced two at your place. I only need the half shafts at this point.
I can see the Ujoint on the inside move....The half shaft moves and the yoke moves....but what it connects to (leading into the pumpkin) does not move at all. Then I put it in fourth gear and ran it with the rear wheels off the ground. ~1200 RPMish. and that thing was just wobbling up and down pretty bad. I think I've isolated my vibration. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 2:18
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| bogus | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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great!!!!
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 3:19
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Schrade | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Could be sympathetic vibration. Same as a loose heat shield vibrating at the exact same RPM in every gear. Has to do with 2 different masses (objects) being in-phase or out-of-phase at some point. It's a stretch, but possible. Did you had the driveline disassembled before this started? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 3:22
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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^^not since about 18 months ago when we did the clutch.
But your explanation is similar to what I was thinking. And get this, while it is up on jack stands, I can only get the noise to occur while the brake is lightly applied. So yeah, some sort of phase vibration thing occuring. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/22 3:27
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| jhammons01 | Re: Tranny Noise (AKA when it rains it pours) | ||
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So....NO.....the u-joints/rear wheel bearing didn't fix this issue at all.
The bearing that is going bad is clanking when the gear shift is in Neutral, First and Third. It is getting louder. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/1 20:24
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