After almost 2 hours of fanangling the pan under the car, holding my arms up along the sides, hands between the crossmember and the block, holding the pan up by arching my back and resting it on my chest (the one time I wish I were chubby...a belly would have helped), it's more or less in place.

The gasket says install dry, but everyone I know still puts a bit of RTV in each corner to prevent leaks around the two mains.

However, I had to put the pan in place and then put the gasket in around it, which was a major PITA (see above). There's no way I'm going to be able to get RTV in those front corners.

Have you guys ever installed the pan with the Felpro gasket dry?

Any leaks? After all this I wouldn't be able to bear having it leak again...

Would you damage or move the gasket if it was on the pan before the gyrations to get the pan in place?

I've always don the RTV thing, but use the Right Stuff now.

Putting it in dry is a crap shoot.

I'm guessing you are not using a Fel-Pro one piece oil pan gasket?

The reason I ask is because they are super simple to install using the included pack of blue studs.

The blue studs thread up into the 4 corner holes...the larger ones on the ends of both rails. They have clip ends so once they are threaded in you can slide the one piece gasket up onto the studs and it stays there.

I personally install the one piece gaskets without sealant but coated with clean oil.

Then the pan can be pushed up onto the studs under the gasket. It will also be help up by the clips on the end of the blue studs.

Now this is the easy part because the studs are now holding the gasket and pan, and in alignment with the bolt holes.

Simply get a few perimeter bolts started so the pan is now held up to the block. Use a flat head screw driver to remove the four blue studs, and you can loosely install the remaining pan bolts.

Tighten them snug in the same pattern as you would head bolts. Start in the middle of one of the rails, moving outward in a circular motion incorporating the other pan rail.

I can draw up a sequence diagram if you like. Torque to spec. You can install RTV in the corner gaps by the front and rear mains but I usually don't and have never had leaks using the one piece gaskets.

I do it everytime, and I use Right Stuff from permatex. The FSM tells you to also.

I have always lightly lubed the gasket with vaseline, and installed it without sealer.

I don't understand. The RTV is for between the gasket and the corners on the block at the rear main cap and timing cover.

Why can't you put some RTV on the block in those locations and then put the pan and gasket in place?

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You can. And like Steve say's, the manual recommends it too.

There is almost no clearance in the front to get in there and put the sealer. I would have to jack up the motor at least three to five inches to get in there, it's just too tight.

I had planned to put the gasket on and then slide the pan in, but the front of the pan hangs up on the main cap bolt heads. I really had to work to find the perfect angle with which to get it in. If I set the gasket on the pan and tried to slide it up in there the gasket would definately be knocked off when getting the front of the pan past the cap bolt.

Yes it's the Fel-Pro one piece with the metal insets. The blue locating tabs are great, but there's no room to put them up there. Again, the pan would knock them right off and I'd have the threaded part stuck in the holes...

Perhaps the Canton pan is deeper there than the stocker, as I see no way anyone could do this. Here's what I'm looking at - the pan slides between the crossmember and the bolt head in this picture is what it hangs up on.

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Here's one I took before removal. You can see the limited clearance between the bottom of the pan and the crossmember.

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I know in my C3 I have unbolted the engine mounts from the frame and jacked it up a few inches for clearance on various modifications or projects. Really the only issue is the distributor and in a C4 you don't have to worry about that.

Maybe lifting the engine a little bit is your easy ticket out of this mess.

The pan looks like it sits a bit low, but even with new motor mounts the front will only have about 1" to the cross member. I would suggest getting the chery picker on it and raising it. Where on the west side do you live ?

I just did this... then again, it was engine out.

But I used the oil pan without any RTV. I followed the part instructions, not the EOM. If I had been using a ACDelco gasket, sure, but I was using the FelPro grey and followed their instructions.

It's been a month+ now, and no oil leaks.

I have done the pan before in the car. The LT1 cars are a bitch... I found if you shorten the little blue things, it will fit.

I have to lift the engine on my truck to remove the pan. I hate it. Plus lining up motor mounts can be tricky.

Are your crank counterweights in the way? Turning the engine over to halfway between 8 and 4 or 5 and 7 will get the front counterweights up.

I'm going to go with bogus's answer - dry gasket, no leaks. I have the same grey Felpro. I have one more event before the winter on Oct 9/10th. I'll button it up, run it that weekend, and if it leaks I have all winter to pull the motor and do it right.

The bottom line is that this is not a job to do with the motor in the car. Lesson learned.

CC, the weights aren't in the way. At first I thought so, and had my buddy (who was not under the car) grab the breaker bar to crank it. But then I squeezed my hand up there and could feel that it was the cap bolt that was the problem. I wasn't going to remove that...

mseven, I'm in Novi, 10/Haggerty. Am I to assume by your post that you have a cherry picker? If I have to pull the motor I'll be happy to rent it from you if you're offering

By the way, did you guys see the amount of oil accumulation on that crossmember? That's from three track days. I completely cleaned the undercarriage when the motor was out this spring.

Amazing.

Thanks, guys, for all the answers.

Ok, maybe I'm just slow...

With the pan sitting on the garage floor... are you able to reach up there, even using a mirror and apply some RTV to those front corners on the block itself? Seems accessible from the photo, use your fingers.

Are you then able to get the pan+gasket installed and tightened down before the RTV sets up?

If you can't slide the pan in with the gasket on it without it getting knocked off, can you stick the gasket onto the block with this and then slide the pan in place?

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Nope you're not slow. Those are good questions, all of which I've thought through. My original plan was to test fit the pan, then pull it out, RTV the gasket and the block, then slide the pan back into place before the RTV sets. Game over.

What I found was that it was extremely difficult to get the pan in at all. I was about to give up after about 30 minutes of trying when I got lucky and it slid into place. I did not want to take it out again because I'm afraid I won't find that magic spot again where it aligns and goes into place.

So I slid the gasket up there with the pan roughly in place, supported between the front crossmember and the bellhousing. Getting the gasket in was the tricky part, as I couldn't get the thick front radius of the gasket between the pan and the block - same main cap bolt is in the way. As I mentioned in the OP, this was where most of the fanangling took place. Eventually I got it in what seems to be the right location and loosely stuck in two bolts to hold it until I decided the next steps. If I tried to stick the gasket to the block it would most definately be knocked off when the pan was forced up there.

I can (and will) RTV the back corners, they're easy to get to. The fronts are not. I may be able to put some goo on my finger and apply, but it will be haphazard at best. I can't see in there at all, so it would be strickly by feel. I would rather have none at all than some in the wrong place that keeps it from sealing properly.

Pulling the motor up about 4 inches would probably give me enough room to do this easily, but I don't have a cherry picker. Starting from scratch, I would rent or borrow one and lift the motor. But at this point it's close enough to finish without.

This is different form early C4s but *I think* (its been a year or so) I was able to unbolt those frame braces and it made putting the pan in a lot easier.

They look different on my 86 and they were bolted on both ends.

(For future reference, since it sounds like you got it pretty much done.)

I need to post pics of my engine...

When I pulled it out, I had an oil leak from hell, and it was caused by the front corners of the oil pan gasket (FelPro blue). The corners at the timing cover blew out. It was a rather slow bath, but a bath nontheless.

What an absolute mess. Up to 1/2" thick oil/tar/sand goo. Yuck-o-rama.

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well....I did but I'm guessing I won't ever see it again (loaned it to a "friend" in the spring he has since moved etc.)
However, you are not far from me if you need a hand with it I can come out your way.

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6 cherry pickers for sale on Craigslist in Detroit onder $150