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| CentralCoaster | Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I'm considering trying my hand at paint work. I currently have a 5.5cfm(@90psi) 26gal compressor.
From what I've read so far, this is sort of small to be doing big paint jobs, but I'm patient and would rather screw it up myself than pay others to screw it up. I want to start on some small stuff, like my truck interior, small metal parts, etc. Eventually I want to repaint my entire vette and my truck. What sort of equipment do you recommend? Air dryer? What gun? Any particulars on type of paint? What about tools for stripping the paint down? Mask? Exhaust fan needed? Where do you buy your stuff from? I have a single car garage to work in that I can seal up with plastic, and I don't mind doing lots of disassembly and painting a little at a time. I'm not looking for showroom paint, I just want something that looks good from 10 feet and doesn't peel off. I've seen the finishes at the budget paint shops around here and I'm sure I can do better than those. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 0:51
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Your air supply is low for a high pressure production gun, but what you are talking about doing, at least initially, is going to want a touch-up gun whose air requirements are a lot less -- your compressor should be fine, but look at the specifications on the air gun you want to purchase to be sure.
I switched to HVLP, and the gun has its own three-stage turbine. My compressor is now used primarily for air tools and inflating the tires. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 2:44
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| red_johnny | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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On Sabbatical
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I need to find me a buddy who can paint so I can repair my hood damage and get some custom ghost flames put on too
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 2:50
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| BillH | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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I've done all my own for years including fiberglass.
You sure can beat the budget shops because you'll take your time. I've used the plastic stuff many times. I screwed some 1 x 2's into the ceiling so I could attach the plastic with a staple gun. The 1 x 2's are about 2 ft away from the wall so they cover the toolbox, drillpress, etc. I overlap 2 pieces of plastic by 3 ft, this eliminates having to tape the whole seam and I don't get overspray leaking out. I just use an old bedroom fan with the garage door sitting on top of it for exhaust and use 2x4's to hold down the plastic on the floor. One of the problems with this setup is getting enough light inside the "booth". I just got 2 new halogen work lites but haven't tried them yet and would probably put them outside the booth since they ger so hot. I would get HPLV guns even if you have to wait for the compressor to catch up. The gravity guns can put enough mist in your "booth" to make it hard to see. I'm using a compressor smaller than yours with a HPLV trim gun. You'll probably need the booth for your truck inrterior but, spraying trim parts, even an engine block with a HPLV can be done with just plastic on the floor and won't mess up your shop. Paints are all over the place in quality and ease of use. I liKe PPG 2 part Urethanes, they hold up really well and prevent chips better than anything I've used except Emron. The problem is that they're expensive. A quart of Corvette yellow to do my racecar was over $150 plus the catalyst. I found some new paint on the web by Kirker that I want to try. The most expensive gallon was $66 plus activator. If you want to puke, price the "House of Color" stuff. For custom work, I use AutoAirColor and to go inexpensive, I use model car paint. You can get some cool pearls by Boyd Cottington at a hobbyshop for $4 a can, spray it from the can and coat with PPG clear with no problems. Most say don't mix brands but I do all the time on custon stuff (wouldn't paint my Vette that way though). I've done quite a few helmits like this. If you're gonna primer the interior of your truck, I use a 2 part epoxy primer, it's really worth the money down the road. Try these: www.autobodytoolmart.com (has the Kirker paint but gun prices are a little high) www.spraygundepot.com ( good prices and a bunch of links) check out Devilbiss "FinishLine" guns, very good quality and reasonable. Don't get a HPLV from HarborFT, A friend got one, used it once and threw it away. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 15:16
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| jhammons01 | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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I've done all my own for years including . All of that is great info for sure. Thanks. CC have done anything just yet? |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 16:37
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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You should be worried about using "an old fan". It's an explosion hazard! If you do use an old fan, don't suck the fumes out with it. That brings the explosive vapors through the unprotected motor. Instead, blow the fumes out. It's not as effective, but at least it's less likely to go boom!  |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 16:48
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| BillH | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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You're absolutely correct.
I've been lucky. I usually do it when I'm done painting, after the paint flashes to keep the dust down. I want to put an explosion proof fan in the shop I'm going to build. Not cheap, a 16inch with shutters is $550. Yea, cheaper than a burntdown garage. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 17:29
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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... in the shop I'm going to build. Now I'm jealous! Back to CentralCoaster -- another thing about HVLP guns. If you use them with compressed air, you still need to be concerned about moisture in the air supply. If you go with a turbine, moisture is normally not a problem. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 19:06
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| jhammons01 | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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What is an HVLP gun?
What is a Turbine Gun? And if we get down to 4. CFM level what now? |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 19:22
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| j3studio | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Another interesting thread - keep talking guys!
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 19:27
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Grace, 2003 50th Anniversary Convertible |
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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What is an HVLP gun? HVLP stands for High Velocity Low Pressure, and it was a new technology about twenty years ago, forced by EPA emissions requirements. The essential benefit of HVLP over High Pressure is overspray. High Pressure guns typically result in about 20% of the paint going on the object being painted and about 80% becoming overspray. With HVLP, the numbers are just about reversed -- there is typically less than 20% overspray -- I forget the requirement but it's quite low -- which means over 80% goes on the object to be sprayed. Thus, lower pollution by a lot. Air source. If you use a compressor, you are pressurizing air to around 100 psi, then reducing it down to about 30-40 psi for a High Pressure gun and to below 10 psi for an HVLP gun. As the air is initially compressed, it heats up. It then gives up some of its heat as it sits in the tank and hoses. When you use the air for your spray gun, you reduce the pressure; thus, the air gets colder -- quite a bit colder than when it started in the first place. Thus, the moisture in the air comes out as water droplets. You need to have a really good moisture trap to get rid of the water. Otherwise it will ruin a perfectly good paint job. Just ask anyone -- like me -- who was bit by that problem. It's really frustrating. With a turbine compressor as a source, you only compress the air -- typically to about 5 - 7 psi. Thus the "Low Pressure" part of HVLP. It makes up for the low pressure by using high volumes of air. A turbine compressor is ideal for that type of air source. You never store the air, so it doesn't have much opportunity to cool down before you use it so there isn't much of a moisture problem. There really isn't a turbine gun, just a turbine compressor. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 20:16
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| jhammons01 | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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How interesting.
So these newer guns are only spraying at 10psi?? why then are so many people saying you have to have an ~8cfm capacity compressor?? If a gun is only using 10psi then surely a smaller compressor could keep up with it.........correct? Would you attribute the "Fisheye" effect to water rather than dust? Another thing that I could never get a straight answer is.......if you look at a C4, it is really chopped up into sections. If you had a way of mixing the exact color over and over, would you really need a "Big Gun" to spray large areas??? The Clamshell is the only thing that bothers me it is a huge area...but the rest of the car is small touch up style areas with lots of breaks for masking off. If you are not changing colors and only restoring the paint, could you not paint section at a time??? |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 21:24
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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How interesting. The HVLP gun needs a lot more than 8 cfm of air -- but it needs it at 10 psi (or less). My gun operates at approximately 6 psi. For compressors, ignoring all the losses you have in the pressure reducer, water separator and pipes, pressure times cfm is a constant. If you have a compressor that is rated at 8 cfm @ 90 psi, then that compressor can provide an output of 80 cfm at 9 psi. (8x90 = 80x9). Just like a high pressure gun, you need to look at both pressure and volume to determine what you need for a source. In short, a small compressor is totally inadequate for a production-size HVLP gun. Fisheye is normally caused by silicone contamination. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 22:54
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| Qack | From the Fuji HVLP Spray Gun Manufacturer Website | ||
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WHAT IS HVLP ? FACT & FICTION
To qualify under the term HVLP, air flowing through the Aircap must not exceed 10 psi. Generally speaking, HVLP turbine motors produce over 100 CFM (cubic feet per minute) at 3 - 8 psi. (pounds per square inch) depending on the model of motor. Compare this to a typical high pressure set-up where 45 - 60 psi at 8 CFM would be the norm. HVLP turbines supply air at a much lower velocity producing a softer, easier to control spray. This allows you to lay the paint on gently and not blast it on. Benefits of HVLP include less overspray and less paint wastage. Transfer efficiency can be as high as 85%. The quality of finish is identical to the best high pressure spray finishes. In some areas of the USA. (Southern California for instance) high pressure spray systems are prohibited in certain industries. All HVLP turbine systems, (by any maker) automatically comply with all known regulations in North America." [url]http://www.fujispray.com/what_is_hvlp.html[/url] |
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Posted on: 2008/1/11 22:58
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Another thing that I could never get a straight answer is.......if you look at a C4, it is really chopped up into sections. If you had a way of mixing the exact color over and over, would you really need a "Big Gun" to spray large areas??? The Clamshell is the only thing that bothers me it is a huge area...but the rest of the car is small touch up style areas with lots of breaks for masking off. If you are not changing colors and only restoring the paint, could you not paint section at a time??? You could probably get away with that if: 1) you were a really good painter and 2) the paint wasn't metallic. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 0:50
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| jhammons01 | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Qack!!
You aren't helping me at all. You are supposed to tell me just what I want to hear and forget about all those facts you keep posting. My self esteem has dropped dramatically and My Sliver Metallic car is not getting painted in my garage.....and it is all your fault!! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 4:47
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| bogus | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Gee... use this, Kev,
 In all seriousness, I would love to do body work, but I don't have the garage space... When I do get my Vette repainted, I will do the prep and priming... I will sand that primer, remove the bumpers and the emblems, so that all it will need is final colour coating. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 5:23
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| cuisinartvette | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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You can do it, Ive used an HVLP gun before, they are great. Once miced the paint in that little cup goes further than you think it will. Mix each batch the same it will come out the same. The one I used was a middle of the road (not expensive, not the cheapest but erring on the cheaper side) and I was suprised how good it came out.
Take your time....If you have to have someone that really knows paint give you the rundown on mixing...I understand outside temps can change things. Had to have someone help me dothe mixing and gove me a few quick tips on spraying. Do it. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 7:01
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| JrRifleCoach | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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The guy that painted Rose had a coupla tricks that made sense.
Her threw a chain over the suspension and laid it on the floor. When the floor was wet this would ground the body reducing static electricty. Also CA has the worst laws concerning the chemisrty of paints. Buy what you need in AZ or NV. Just watch out for Andy and his "enviro" paint sniffin' dogs |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 8:18
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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My Sliver Metallic car is not getting painted in my garage.....and it is all your fault!! You'll thank me later. :thumbright: I did my first full paint job in my very narrow one-car garage. I ended up painting and stripping the car four times before I was happy. My wife wasn't happy. I had plastic set up everywhere. Well, almost everywhere. the garage door had been open, with plastic over the opening. When I lowered the garage door, the formerly white door was approximately hot pink.  |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 14:38
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| BillH | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Qack!! No, you don't want to paint your Vette in the garage. I guarantee you won't be happy. You'll get dust in the paint,etc. Even grounding the frame to the floor won't totally stop it. Vettes are electrostatic dust magnets. Do what Andy said about the prep and have it shot in a spraybooth. In your other post about the gun size, one standard HPLV would be used to paint the entire car, door jams, everything. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 15:14
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| BillH | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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You can do it, Ive used an HVLP gun before, they are great. Once miced the paint in that little cup goes further than you think it will. Mix each batch the same it will come out the same. The one I used was a middle of the road (not expensive, not the cheapest but erring on the cheaper side) and I was suprised how good it came out. I had 3 standard sprayguns and an airbrush. I used a HPLV once and figured I'd neven go back to a regular gun. On mixing, the graduated, clear plastic mixing cups are great. They'll get you the same mix every time. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 15:25
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| BillH | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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[quote]My Sliver Metallic car is not getting painted in my garage.....and it is all your fault!! You'll thank me later. :thumbright: I did my first full paint job in my very narrow one-car garage. I ended up painting and stripping the car four times before I was happy. My wife wasn't happy. I had plastic set up everywhere. Well, almost everywhere. the garage door had been open, with plastic over the opening. When I lowered the garage door, the formerly white door was approximately hot pink. :banghead] Ah yes, the pink door syndrome. I got careless with my "plastic spraybooth" once and ended up with a yellow toolbox and lathe. And, my bedroom is above my 2 car garage. It's fun tryin' to sleep smelling urathane. Reason # 245 to build my shop. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/12 15:37
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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In all seriousness, I would love to do body work, but I don't have the garage space... When I do get my Vette repainted, I will do the prep and priming... I will sand that primer, remove the bumpers and the emblems, so that all it will need is final colour coating.  You've got plenty of garage space, except you've got it filled with junk.Clear it out! I thought that was your new year's resolution!? (for 2006) |
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Posted on: 2008/1/14 2:48
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| jhammons01 | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Doh! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/14 17:47
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| SpeedHound | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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I would not suggest trying silver as the first color you have ever painted with. It's a very metallic color by nature and metallics run easily. Just a thought. Paint work isn't hard when you are keeping it simple. The prep work is what matters. This not only includes the work done to the car but also the attention paid to equipment used. Correct gun, line filters, both set up and on and on.
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Posted on: 2008/1/15 4:01
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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My compressor is 6.5cfm @ 40psi, 5.5cfm @90psi.
So at 10 psi, it's probably a little higher. Is this at least borderline? Also it seems to be hard to control the pressure way down by 10psi, or at least the guages suck. I had trouble getting the pressure right when doing ceiling knockdown texture, which is low pressure. Should I add on a better pressure regulator? |
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Posted on: 2008/1/15 16:59
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| Qack | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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My compressor is 6.5cfm @ 40psi, 5.5cfm @90psi. Many (most?) HVLP spray guns meant for a compressor take more than 10 psi "at the gun". The gun then further reduces it to 10 psi or less at the tip. I just looked at a Binks SV100 and it requires 10 cfm at 27 psi ... Look on the bright side -- you'd rather have a turbine-fed spray gun anyway! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/15 20:07
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| BillH | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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My compressor is 6.5cfm @ 40psi, 5.5cfm @90psi. You can get an inline regulator with gauge for $10. The affordable guns by Devilbiss (FinishLine) need 23 psi at the gun inlet to achieve the 10 psi at the nozzle. If you're still talking about doing smaller jobs like your truck interior, you're good to go. Your tank is fine. The CFM talked about here is for continuous output by the compressor ( like if you held the spray gun on for many minutes). The only thing you may have to do on something as large as your truck is wait for the compressor to catch up. Heck, I've been painting small stuff for years with a 12 gal. tank and a gravity gun which uses more CFM. If you want to play with a gravity gun, I'll lend you my older Sears gun that came with the compressor. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/16 15:55
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| BillH | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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On thing that hasn't been takled about too much, if you're thinking about how much you're going to spend on a gun, you still need clean,dry air.
One of the least expensive, namebrand oil/water filters is by Sharpe $60. I've also had very good luck with the inline, disposeable desicant dryers that attach to the gun, $10 to $20 and they last fairly long. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/16 16:07
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| redwing76 | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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I've been a automotive paint and bodyman for 40 years and some of the best jobs Ive done were at home in my garage.
If you're going to paint your own car you better get it done before 2011. After that EPA will make it impossible to buy automotive paint. After 1/1/11 you'll have to be a certified painter with a $100,000 booth to buy auto paints. If you think the law is unjust and many in the old car hooby do contactr the EPA before its too late. www.epa.gov Source Hemmings magazine feb 08 |
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Posted on: 2008/1/22 16:48
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| redwing76 | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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As far guns go think SATA.
Small compressors are a pain the azz to use. They cycle too much creating water, from condesation. Warning paint in a enclosed area can KILL YOU. If the water heator is in there also there can be a FIRE! You're best bet is to get a book on body and paint and do all the prep and have a pro spray the car. The finish is in the cut and polish, not so much the spray job. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/22 16:54
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| skirlin | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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This is an excellent thread. I have painted dozens of cars using pearls, candies, and metallics. My first car was my mothers which was...light silver which came out ok and I have gone from there. I haven't painted a car since the late 80's and the info on the HPLV is great. I am hoping to paint my vette next year and will be doing some practice jobs on my other vehicles. I had a buddy who wanted me to spray his Nova with a medium blue metallic, he said he would do all prep work and all I had to do was lay on the color. The greatest painter using the most expensive paint will not make a lick of difference unless the prep work is good. His was not good and I told him to work some more and he said it's ready, just paint it. Wow, how many coats would it take to fill 100 grit scratches. Genius is in the detail, you can do it.
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Posted on: 2008/1/23 16:21
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Paint/autobody: Anybody here do their own work? | ||
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Ok, so the scoop on ventilation.....
Little combustion air openings in the walls aren't enough even with a good mask? So I need a fan. Any old exhaust fan is dangerous because the motor/arcing is in the exhaust flow of flammable paint fumes? So either use a fancy $ exhaust fan with a sealed motor, or... Force air into the space and make sure the space can breath. (This also keeps it under positive pressure and prevents dust from leaking in past my enclosure. I simply filter the incoming air with a furnace filter or two. And I have to be careful where the fan blows, I don't want a huge breeze where I'm trying to paint.) How much air movement do I need? The big square fan sounds like good idea, shove it under the garage door partway shut and seal off the rest of the opening, or hell, maybe leave part of it open on the other side if it's under positive pressure.) Other safety considerations... Turn off the gas to the water heater during painting. The air compressor should stay outside the paint area too right? It's got an electric motor, not to mention it's pulling that nasty air into the compressor. Quality considerations... Plastic off everything and maybe make the floor damp. Static - how do I ground the frame exactly? To the floor? Just throw a chain around something under hood and let it lay partway on the floor? Any other tips that can help? Something I do to the surface before spraying to take the charge off? |
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Posted on: 2008/1/23 17:37
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