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| CentralCoaster | Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I've been trying my hand (ok, foot) at some "heel-toe" shifting in my 85 the past 2 weeks during commuting. It's really hard to do.
Most heel toe I've seen is more of a twist and tap with the side of your foot. I don't feel comfortable with this because I'm paranoid about slipping off the brake pedal. I tried some other methods but the gas pedal is way lower than the brake. The best I can come up with is braking with the arch of my foot and tapping the gas with my pinky toe. This pivots my right heel in the way of my clutch foot a bit, but is doable. Its much harder to hit the gas with my heel, plus the footwell is so damn narrow. I only wear a size 9 shoe. Problem is, the stock gas pedal is so horrible, that it twists during htis, and doesn't always end up doing anything. It's like trying to hit a wet sponge. It's not the pedal arm pivot, it's the attachment of the pad to the pivot. And don't even tell me about the CNC aluminum pivot, BTDT, bought the t-shirt and got my refund. Before I rip this pedal out, is there an easier solution? I know the pedals changed in 1990, so this might be specific to 84-89. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/26 3:09
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| Jeffvette | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Get some real shoes and learn to roll your foot from the brake to the gas. Best way to do it in a C4.
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Posted on: 2010/8/26 5:17
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| BillH | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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I H&T all the time on the streets unconsciously.
I wear 9 1/2s. I haven't tried it with my driving shoes though. I think it would be a tad harder since the Simpsons are narrow. People use different techniques and what's right for me may not be comfortable for someone else. Like Jeff said, it's rolling your foot. I use the ball of my foor, under the big toe on the brake. With Nikes, I'm covering 1/3rd or more of the pedal. I keep my heel on the floor below the gas pedal and rotate my foot to the brake. Then blip by rotating my foot, I catch the gas with the side of my foot just below the little toe. It's the ball under the toe because (as you said) the gas pedal is lower (and as you know) both pedals will be closer to being level under track braking. The thing to watch is your knee, it will move towards the shifter when doing the blip. Your heel will stay on the floor or come up slightly. I'd try it sitting still first and then use the taller gears to practice (like 5-4 or 4-3). I've been wanting to do a vid on this but all I have is my old point & shoot Pentax that does have vid capability. CC, didn't you post a point & shoot vid a long time ago? BTW, that's with '92 pedals. I'll be at the track Sat. If an earlier C4 shows up again, I'll try those pedals. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/26 14:04
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| pianoguy | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Quote:
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Posted on: 2010/8/26 14:47
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Heel & toe is hard to do on the street as your not normally mashing the brake pedal all the way down
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Posted on: 2010/8/26 16:28
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Good point. I'll start driving like an ahole and stomping the brake a little more.
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Posted on: 2010/8/26 18:35
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| BillH | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Heel & toe is easy to do on the street.
It's only hard when the gas pedal is higher than the brake. It's easy to do even under moderate brake applications, just takes practice. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/26 19:01
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| zoe6 | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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I'll have to try this! I've seen it done, didn't want to ruin anything in the transmission by missing a shift or worse yet over reving the engine. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 1:40
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| SpectatorRacing | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Elite Guru
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I dunno, I'm with Brian. I find it hard to do on the street but easy on the track.
I think the main reasons are that you're pushing significantly harder on the brake, and that it happens fast. A street downshift has to be smoother, it's more rev matching than blipping. It's much harder to control the RPM as you let the clutch out than to quickly blip en route to a downshift...you need to be close, but not spot-on. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 9:46
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| Jimson | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Guru Newb
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I have the same problem with my 87. I wonder if the early C4 pedals are different. I admit I am not the most experienced at heal and toe, but these pedals suck for learning. I measure the throttle pedal a full 2 closer to the floor than the brake and at least 2 to the right. I wear a 10.5 shoe and the best I can do is the very edge of my foot on the brake while just touching the gas. I am working on changing the throttle pedal. Plan to try it at the track 9/3.
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 12:12
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| BillH | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Erin, The best way to learn this is to start with the "rev matching" that Jon mentioned. Rev matching doesn't involve using the brakes. And it's easier to practice. Start with the higher gear downshifts. With the 6-5 or 5-4, you can usually do it before you have to hit the brake pedal (street driving). A quick blip after you push in the clutch while you are moving the shifter. You can tell you've done it right when your downshifts become seamless. You won't be able to feel a change in the car at all as the clutch comes out. Rev matching is a bit easier on the car especially the clutch but not that siginificant. Heel & toe is really for the racetrack and learning it/practicing it on the street is mostly for people who plan to take their cars to the racetrack. And I don't advise my students to learn it until they have some experience, like 4-5 events. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 13:51
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| BillH | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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That's cause your car's black and not black rose metallic.  When I first bought my C4, I was surprised one day to find myself doing it without thinking. I agree on the rev matching. And that at the track doing it faster makes it way easier. And threshold braking makes it easier with the high pedal pressure. I still do it a lot on the street and find that the position of the pedals doesn't make much difference anymore. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 13:56
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| BillH | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Hey, welcome to Guru. I haven't tried it in a early C4. I may get to try it tomorrow at the track, I think there's an 86 entered. But I just went into the shop and did a quick measurement on my 92. The positions are the same 2" & 2". When you hit the brake pedal, is your heel to the right of the brake pedal (in the usual location for using the gas pedal)? To hit the brake, I just rotate the top of my foot to the pedal leaving my heel below the gas. This way you're in position to do the blip. How much track time do you have? If it's not much, I'd recommend practicing on the street in using the higher gears. Especially if you only have a couple events under your belt. If you've been doing events for a while then you may be OK on the track. It takes quite a bit of practice to get heel & toe down like a year's worth of practicing on the street. And some techniques (foot position) work better for one person and not so good for another. Anyway, have a blast on 9/3. I'll have a long day tomorrow, doing tech and instructing all day. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 14:12
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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Senior Guru
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I need to start wearing race shoes to work then.
Not sure if that fits the dress code or not. |
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 16:34
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| BillH | Re: Heel-toe shifting with sh***y stock pedals? | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Posted on: 2010/8/27 21:52
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