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| biggrizzly | LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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While talking with my engine builder yesterday we got on the topic of oiling issues. He said that any motor sports is hard on the oiling system of a stock engine. He thought that if I had visions of autocross in my future I might consider getting a better pan. I know that a lot of guys on the CF have recommended the Canton Road Race pan, but I was fishing for other options or comments on the Canton pan...or just keeping the stock pan.
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Posted on: 2010/11/3 0:44
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I personally don't think much of the pan Canton makes for the C4 Corvette.... It's really not that good of a pan. However it's better than a stock pan just by way of more oil capacity.
Most people don't know anything about what is actually available out there. They simply buy what the other guy has. If you want an 8qt pan and don't care anything about what your buying the Canton is as good/bad as any other mass produced oil pan from Milodon or Moroso. If it werent for the power of mass advertising I don't think any of those companies would be as big as are. IMO they build mostly mediocre products. There are other pans out there. I've actually used the Champ Pans CP100LTRB-RR http://www.champpans.com/index.cfm?event=productdetail&id=199 It's a very good pan for the money. Champ will cut the windage tray for the dip stick and put the 22mm plug in it for the oil sensor if you ask them. If your building a part time C4 Corvette this is the pan I'd recommend. IMO the door system and compartment placement is far superior to the Canton and it's less money. There are some detailed pics that I took on CF in blackharleymans 383LT4 engine thread. I know grindout on CF bought the same Champ on my recommendation - runs Road Atlanta often and loves his pan. Other manufactures: Kevko P/N 1091 RR http://www.kevkoracing.com/wetsump_chevy.htm MSR on CF bought this pan to replace his Canton and is much happier. http://charliespans.com/ http://aroilpans.com/ Not everybody has a web page either. Larry Pankrats builds some of the best oil pans money can buy. Hand fabricated and every weld is perfect. He honestly hasn't had to advertise since the 1990's. We have used his pans since the late 1980's. He built the pan on my 92 and there are may pics highlighting the workmanship on my photobucket. This pan will cost you (very) slightly more $$$ than a Canton. http://www.raceindustry.com/index.html?detailedlisting=1556 Will |
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Posted on: 2010/11/3 15:30
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| JAKEJR | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Thanks for the info, links and recommendations, Will.
Came at the perfect time since I'll be buying one in the next month or so for a new stroker build. Jake |
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Posted on: 2010/11/3 17:01
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My son, Ryan M. Cameron, graduated from West Point on 22 May 2010! He was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and I pinned on his first pair of "Butter Bars" PROUDEST DAY OF MY LIFE!! 96 Vette; 388 CID, all forged bottom end, ported AFRs, etc. |
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Both the Champ and the Kevco look like great pans.
Either one better than the other? |
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Posted on: 2010/11/3 17:03
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| JAKEJR | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Wondering why MOROSO wasn't included in your assessment, especially since they've been in the engine oiling business for many decades.
Jake |
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Posted on: 2010/11/3 17:45
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My son, Ryan M. Cameron, graduated from West Point on 22 May 2010! He was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and I pinned on his first pair of "Butter Bars" PROUDEST DAY OF MY LIFE!! 96 Vette; 388 CID, all forged bottom end, ported AFRs, etc. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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I like the Champ Pan better because it's 7" deep. The Kevko is 7.5" deep and the engine is mounted very low in the Y Body Corvette... If your car is lowered or you someday plan to lower the ride height the 7" pan is better. At stock ride height I don't think the .5" makes much difference and I agree the pans are very similar. I delt with both companies when I build Nolands engine (Actuall 3 companies - Larry told me outright that he was booked up and could not build a second RR pan for me at the time)... The rep at Champ was more than happy to do what I asked about the 20mm oil sensor (which Noland just had to keep)and he even told me how I would need to drill a hole for the factory dip stick if I wanted to keep it. Kevco went back and forth a few times about if he could/couldn't get the 20mm sensor fitting... Will |
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Posted on: 2010/11/3 19:10
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Jake I didn't purposley exclude Moroso. It's just that they don't offer much in the way of proper fittament for the Y Body Corvettes. I do think they have better build quality than many store bought companies. They also do offer real professionl level parts - but you're going to pay for it. The PN 20185 pan is a decent pan for a street car and well priced. It's really designed for F Bodys thou - as the sump is really small, placed really far reward (because the F/B Body cars don't have much engine set back and do have a really big crossmember) and it only holds 5.5qts. It also is pretty much what we used to call a "garbage can" type of an oil sump with no trap doors. Moroso does mfgr a good RR pan. PN 21901. Problem with it is the 8.25" sump depth. It is also $350.00 ish... which (for me at least) put's in competition with many custom built wet sump pans and I'll use a custom pan any day over store bought. Will |
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Posted on: 2010/11/3 19:26
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| BillH | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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I can build you a pan like this, Don.
  Attach file:  2006-04-10 22-13-37_0003.JPG (0.00 KB) |
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Posted on: 2010/11/4 16:01
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| biggrizzly | Champ Oil Pan Arrived Today! | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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I thought I'd share this with anyone interested. Based on the recommendation of Will (Rklessdriver), and others I ordered the Champ Pans Road Racing Pan. It arrived today. Feels like a real quality piece. Lord its heavier than the stock pan!   LINK TO MORE DETAIL PHOTOS |
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Posted on: 2011/1/4 3:52
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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what are the fittings on the side for? Coolers? Accumulator? Sump?
looks like a sweet piece. |
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Posted on: 2011/1/4 4:00
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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The bung on the side is for the oil level sensor. They installed that one for me. The one on top of the kick out is for a oil temp sensor, but I'll probably plug that one. The other is an oil check level plug. I guess to use in lieu of the factory dipstick if desired,
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Posted on: 2011/1/4 4:09
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| 383tpimachine | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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How much did it cost if you dont mind sharing
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Posted on: 2011/1/4 4:34
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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ah, ok. That all makes sense. Thanks! |
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Posted on: 2011/1/4 4:49
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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$340 something after the added bung, the pickup tube and shipping.
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Posted on: 2011/1/4 4:51
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| SpectatorRacing | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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You've already made the purchase, but I would have said the same thing as above. There is also another brand that Slalom4me had lots of good data about on the CF, I would have looked up that post if you were still looking. It actually may have been the Kevco.
I have a Canton, and while it's fine, it's certianly nothing special. And they all seem to leak, I had to cut out the area around the drain plug and replace it with a better one as it would NEVER seal. Irritating. Either way, I would keep using the rails along the sides of the pan even though it's not required. All of these racing pans are chinsy stampings and will flex and deform if you eliminate the rails. Also, RTV all 4 corners and use the Felpro gasket. Don't RTV the whole mating surface. And lastly, welcome to the world of having to remove your headers and starter to get your oil pan off... |
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Posted on: 2011/1/4 23:54
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| BrianCunningham | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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after finding out a drysump conversion would be $5k (ouch) I decided to go with a Canton
but I'm also adding an accusump. I know someone that hit ZERO oil pressure on his datalogger w/o one autocrossing. [IMG]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/swiftwood/Corvette/blower%20build/782f2ac8.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 0:13
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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I am surprised you didn't go with the LTCC or DelTeq ignition upgrades.
I have had LTCC for 7 years with minimal hassles. The biggest problem was when the belt ate the harness... and when the Dynaspark failed. Neither of which are the LTCC's fault. I can fully believe that you could zero oil pressure on an autox. No question in my mind. Same for a track day, too. Toss in a high volume pump and you can kiss the oil bye bye. I do like the idea of a dry sump, it is romantic, but hard to justify on an engine that wasn't designed for it. |
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 4:10
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Brian, Was he using a higher capacity Road Racing Pan when that happened? Or was it a factory pan and oil pump? What is involved with the Accusump? I have read about some guys installing them. My engine builder seems to think that the better high capacity pan in conjunction with a HV oil pump will be safe for what I plan to do with autocross and occasional HPDE or FATT |
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 14:01
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| BillH | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Don (since you've worked around F15's) the Accusump is just a hydraulic accumulator. It "stores" oil pressure, engine pressure fills the bladder and compresses it in the other end. It helps keep the pressure up if you're oil pickup in the pan looses contact with the oil. Also a manual or electric valve is closed at engine shutdown and some oil pressure is held for engine startup. They are nice buy really unnecessary with your new setup. Plus you have to find a place to mount them. Plumbing is not hard, just tees into any oil pressure fitting. The guys autoxing C4's here are running stock pans. If you want some insurance, you can install an oil pressure alert light. You can tee in an adjustable sender (adjustable from 15 to 60 psi) and it will trigger a light on the dash. The sender's $23, complete kit with dashlite $31. We use these on the racecars (water temp & oil temp too). |
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 14:36
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| rklessdriver | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Don
I'm glad to see you are happy with the build quality of the pan. Couple of things. You are going to have to drill a hole in the windage tray if you plan to re-use the factory dip stick. You are going to have to modify the oil level sensor plug if you have long tube headers. They should have welded the bung in the front angled part of the drivers side kick out to avoid that. I thought we made sure that they would not make that mistake again after Nolands pan was built - but it appears they used the orginal drawings which placed it in the factory location. No need for an accusump with that pan. As you can see with how the trap doors and baffels are oriented around the pick up sump, oil cannot be forced away from the oil pump pick up. The upper core that your pan is built from is very thick and would be difficult to deform. As Spectatorracing said - A dab of silocone in the "4 corners" is all that's needed with the 1 pc dry fit oil pan gaskets. I don't have any leaking at all with their pans. I do not remember if I reused the factory oil rail support's on Nolands or not. I remember test fitting them and was having to grind on them a bit because of the way the Champ core is pushed out on the sides for extra rod clearance. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 20:51
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Quote:
Well - I have time. So... I give them a call and send it back and get put in the correct location. Thanks for the heads up. What a pain. Edit: I just called and asked them about the issue, but Chris from Champ was concerned that the oil level sender might interfere with the baffles? So perhaps I need to show him precisely where to place the bung. Has Noland had any problems with his locate up front? |
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 22:24
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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What is your criticism of the Canton pan? Price? Workmanship? Function?
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 23:50
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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I have no criticism. I had four or five people tell me that they had problems with them leaking. So just eliminated that option. |
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Posted on: 2011/1/5 23:57
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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Nolands is located in the side. We just shortened the outside of the sensor about 1/4" and made a low profile pig tail... Took about 15-20mins. Pictures and everything are in his engine build thread on CF. No problems in the past 2yrs and well over 30K miles. Reason we did that is, I already had the engine all buttoned up and we didn't find that it was hitting the header until we trial fit the headers. I know when grindout had his pan built he talked a bunch with Champ about putting the oil level sensor somewhere other than the side (factory placement) of the pan. I also don't think placing it in the front angled part of the kick out would interfere with the baffel or a door - but it might. You can unbolt and take the windage tray assy out of there and you'll be able to look down in that area and see. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/1/6 13:55
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Thanks for the feedback Will! As I paged through that thread again, Noland's engine build is very similiar to mine. I guess they all are kind of the same when stroking these engines. The modification to the pigtail is an easy fix and will eliminate the need to punch another hole in the pan.
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Posted on: 2011/1/6 14:37
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: LT1 oil pan options? for Autocross or Track Days | ||
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I 'believe' it had a road race pan I'll check with him next time I see him. |
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Posted on: 2011/1/7 2:12
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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