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biggrizzly | Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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Any secrets for getting a torque wrench on #16 bolt in the sequence on the right hand side head? There's enough room to get the torque wrench in there but no room to swing it.
I know you guys that have done this in the car must have come across this little PITA. My torque wrench has a fairly long handle on it and that is one of the problems. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 2:28
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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bogus | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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use an extension.
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 2:46
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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Thanks bogus -
Anyhow - I did figure it out. If I would have just used a few more brain cells for a few more minutes it would have occured to me. The extension was part of the problem - getting just the right length was key. I found a long half inch socket that just got me there. Thanks for putting up with my dumb questions!! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 3:11
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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Notorious | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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Year of car? Front or rear? (I'm guessing rear) We shouldn't have to look up the sequence to see WTF you're talking about. I've torqued my heads with the engine in the car 2 or 3 times. I don't recall any major issues.
I see you got it worked out as I was posting. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 3:15
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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Quote:
Year of car? Front or rear? (I'm guessing rear) We shouldn't have to look up the sequence to see WTF you're talking about. I've torqued my heads with the engine in the car 2 or 3 times. I don't recall any major issues. Sorry - Its a 94 and it was the bottom bolt on the right side rear near number 8 cylinder - my apologies |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 3:17
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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cuisinartvette | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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That ones always a PITA with the suitcase right there. ...Had to use a wobbly and guess at it before, figured the Ujoint took some accuracy out but could be wrong. Youll be fine man.
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 3:34
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pianoguy | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Guru Emeritus
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After reading numerous horror stories about getting to certain nuts and bolts, I recently added a variety of wobble extensions to my arsenal. I should probably stock up on Band-Aids, too. :sign7:
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 4:07
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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Well the heads are done and on!!!
Does 60ft.lbs seem easy to you? I used thread sealant and lubed the bolt heads like ARP recomended. It just seemed like a lot less effort to torque them to 60# than taking them off was. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 4:17
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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I dont know where you got that figure from, the 94 service manual i have says 67 ft/lbs.
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 6:37
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bogus | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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with the lube, 60 ftlbs is probably 90.
no problem there. I saw your thread over at CF with no answers. nice. very nice. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 6:56
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cuisinartvette | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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Thought the lower bolts (outers near block) were 60
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 7:53
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CasetheCorvetteman | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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Not on an LT1, they are all 67 ft/lbs, i checked in the good book to make sure before i posted the first time.
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 8:03
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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When using ARP bolts follow ARP specs
When using OEM bolts use OEM specs. OEM bolts on LT1 can only be used once and require a special angle torqueing method. ARP are reuseable and more friendly I followed the preparation and torque instructions to the "T" according to ARP. Wasn't that a movie -- Thats like "The World According ARP" |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 13:03
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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Quote:
with the lube, 60 ftlbs is probably 90. I know,CF has gotten pretty lame lately in that respect. I stilll post a few questions that I think I need a quick response over there. But I either get no response or no intelligent response. I get a faster/better response here now than over there with a lot less members here. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 13:06
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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Notorious | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
When using ARP bolts follow ARP specs You're dead on, I use the ARPs too and they're 60 lbs. If you ever have occasion to crack one loose again, you'll immediately notice how much better they maintain their clamping force too. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 14:45
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bogus | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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ARP uses torque to yield? Interesting.
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 18:47
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CFI-EFI | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Senior Guru
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Quote:
When using OEM bolts use OEM specs. OEM bolts on LT1 can only be used once and require a special angle torqueing method." Quote: ARP are reuseable and more friendly ARP bolts are not torque to yield (TTY). RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 18:52
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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Quote:
Quote: I agree - LT1 Factory head bolts are TTY |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 18:56
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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Notorious | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
ARP uses torque to yield? Interesting. Here are the specifics of ARP's torquing recommendations for their SBC head bolts. If using their moly-lube, or their moly-lube sealer (which should be used on SBCs) they torque to 60 lb-ft. If using anything else, they must be torqued to 75 lb-ft. Interesting, huh? In my case, the bolt set came with their lube but not the sealing lube. Kind of stupid since nearly all of the bolt holes of the Chevy go into the water jacket, and so should be sealed. So I bought their sealer lube separately. A sizeable container good for many times of use was only about $7.00 through my local speed shop. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 19:03
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CFI-EFI | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Senior Guru
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I agree - LT1 Factory head bolts are TTY[/quote]
Personally, I am not aware if the factory Gen II head bolts are TTY or not. I was only quoting YOUR post for the benefit of bogus. It is nice to see, however that you agree with yourself. RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 19:09
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
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Quote:
Quote: My bolts came with neither - I used thier moly lube on the underside of the bolt heads and washers. And then used thier white sealant on the threads. It's kind of like trying to keep your peas out of your corn at supper! LOL |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 19:10
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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Notorious | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
It doesn't matter. You could have used the sealer lube everywhere with no problem. But I'm very glad to hear that you were on top of it, did your homework and used the sealer where it was critical. I tend to be a worrier by nature, so thank you for lessening my load! Something tells me you've got everything under control now. :thumbleft: |
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 20:44
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ninetyfivevette | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Guru Newb
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I have to reinstall my ARP head bolts and I don't have any documentation- Does ARP state you must torque the bolts down five times to prestretch them?
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Posted on: 2008/1/19 23:04
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Notorious | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
I have to reinstall my ARP head bolts and I don't have any documentation- Does ARP state you must torque the bolts down five times to prestretch them? If they've been previously torqued down, as you indicate, this is no issue whatsoever. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/20 0:20
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Stl94LT1 | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Guru Newb
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Quote:
I have to reinstall my ARP head bolts and I don't have any documentation- Does ARP state you must torque the bolts down five times to prestretch them? They do, I didn't. :tongue: Also, I torqued my long bolts 70 lb/ft, and 65 lb/ft for the short ones. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/20 1:10
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dan0617 | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Senior Guru
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biggrizzly, you do need to roll the threads in on new ARP bolts. On mine, I used lube and torqued the heads down by the bolt sequence. Then, I started with bolt 1, loosened and retorqued it 5 times, then took it out, installed permatex thread sealer (I heard of problems with leakage on ARP thread sealer, but it may be fine), lube under the bolt head and washer, then torqued the bolt down the final time. Then I went on to bolt number 2, and 3, and right through the sequence. I was surprised at, after the bolt is torqued down the first time, when you loosen it and torque it the second time, how much farther the wrench circles around to reach that torque.
I torqued mine down to 70, but I have an L98, not an LT1. I think it called for 60 with the ARP sealer so I went to 70 since I used permatex sealer. It felt like I could have went to 100 with the ARP bolts and cleaned threads in the block. (Intake on the L98 is another story, I couldn't get 1 single bolt to torque to the recommended 35lbs and had to heli-coil some holes and settled for 22 lbs, but that is another story) Also if you do it my way make sure you torque to final setting right after installing the permatex because if you wait it becomes harder to reach the torque setting as the sealer "sets up" |
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Posted on: 2008/1/20 16:26
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Quote:
biggrizzly, you do need to roll the threads in on new ARP bolts. On mine, I used lube and torqued the heads down by the bolt sequence. Then, I started with bolt 1, loosened and retorqued it 5 times, then took it out, installed permatex thread sealer (I heard of problems with leakage on ARP thread sealer, but it may be fine), lube under the bolt head and washer, then torqued the bolt down the final time. Then I went on to bolt number 2, and 3, and right through the sequence. I was surprised at, after the bolt is torqued down the first time, when you loosen it and torque it the second time, how much farther the wrench circles around to reach that torque. Dan, Thanks for this great information - I had missed this until today. After reading this and then going back to ARPs website, I see that I indeed missed this step of stretching the bolts. However I did intall and remove them twice. I guess what this means then is that I need to go ahead and cycle all of the bolts at least 3 to 4 more times and then before the final torque, remove the bolts and put some fresh sealer on the threads, since it has been several days since they have been torqued. I'm also concerned that the white ARP sealant is good enough for proper seal. I know it is designed for that, but I have read a couple of posts where people said it had leaked. Initially when I put on the sealer, and had to remove the head, I could see where the sealer had actually squeezed out in between the head and the gasket a bit around the holes. The second time I lessened the amount of sealant thinking I didn't want to overdo the sealant. Comments please. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/24 21:23
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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dan0617 | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Senior Guru
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No problem, glad to help. You might be safe with 1 retorqueing but I think you are better off doing what you said. I have no experience good or bad with ARP sealer but I heard a few bad experiences. Camaroz28 members had a few too. I never heard bad about permatex thread sealer so I used that. Laying on the bench it seems like it never sets up but if you torque a bolt then try to retorque it the next day you can put 10 more lbs on it and it still won't move. Has to be the sealer set up. That is why I did all my thread rolling with lube, then cleaned it off and used fresh thread sealer on the threads and lube under the head and washer for the final torque. I haven't finished the intake install yet as I'm waiting on the plenum, so I haven't fired mine yet to see how it worked, but I think I did the right thing.
As a side note, if you ever remove the heads again the bolts are re-usable and you do not need to roll in the threads after the bolts have been used. |
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Posted on: 2008/1/25 0:49
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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biggrizzly | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
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Quote:
No problem, glad to help. You might be safe with 1 retorqueing but I think you are better off doing what you said. I have no experience good or bad with ARP sealer but I heard a few bad experiences. Camaroz28 members had a few too. I never heard bad about permatex thread sealer so I used that. Laying on the bench it seems like it never sets up but if you torque a bolt then try to retorque it the next day you can put 10 more lbs on it and it still won't move. Has to be the sealer set up. That is why I did all my thread rolling with lube, then cleaned it off and used fresh thread sealer on the threads and lube under the head and washer for the final torque. I haven't finished the intake install yet as I'm waiting on the plenum, so I haven't fired mine yet to see how it worked, but I think I did the right thing. Do you think it is enough to just clean the bolts after I re-torque them a couple of times and re-apply sealer. Or should I remove the heads again and clean the holes in the block too? I hate worrying about every little aspect of this job! Doing the work is so much easier than the worrying!! Thanks |
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Posted on: 2008/1/25 0:56
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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dan0617 | RE:Can't get enough swing with the tq. wrench on #16 head bolt | ||
Senior Guru
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I think when you remove the bolts alot of sealer will come out, clean it off the bolts before applying lube and reinstalling them for the retorquing process. Chances are when you remove them to apply new sealer you will have some more old sealer to clean off. I don't think chasing the threads again is necessary. I have no experience with an LT1 but I don't think, when talking about this, that it would be any different than a Gen 1 sbc L98 engine.
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Posted on: 2008/1/25 1:03
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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