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Abbreviation for the 6th generation of Corvettes built starting in 2005 and are still in production....
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sliding C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
Zagreb, Croatia
326 Posts
Member since:
2005/11/25 0:00



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It's been a while since I installed front C5 brakes but I can't say that I'm
very satisfied. Problem is that after 1-2 hard breakings from ~120 to
stop breakes get overheated and start to scratch on something and start
shaking. If I let them cool down then it gets back to normal.
Everything that I installed is new. Original C5 Z06 calipers and pads and
I bought Durastop rotors (slotted/drilled).
I know that rotors are probably junk but anyway I think that brakes should
be better. I can't say that there is much improvement over stock 12"
front brakes that I had.
I still didn't install brake bias spring and I hope that it will improve things.

Now, I have a few questions;
1. Are you staisfied with your C5 brakes?
2. Do you have bias spring installed?
3. Is there any kind of aftermarket master cylinder available that is better that stock
unit and can be installed with not too many mods necessary?

Here are a few pics of my install.

before:

Resized Image

adapter installed]http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6642/adapterifu5.jpg[/img]

after:

Resized Image

Resized Image
Posted on: 2008/1/21 18:02
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'90 L98 auto with a lot of mods
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Notorious RE:C5 front brakes
Elite Guru
Downbound train, NC
2184 Posts
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The pads are likely your problem. You didn't state what kind you're using but try some Hawks and bed them in properly.
Yes, I have C5 brakes and used the bias spring. And I indeed found them to be an improvement over the J55s that came on my '95.
Posted on: 2008/1/21 22:18
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Jeffvette Re: C5 front brakes
Elite Guru
Not on CF
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I would say those are my brackets, but they are not stamped with PNWZR1 and I haven't sold any to Europe.

One thing you may want to take a look at is the metal tangs that fit in the abutment bracket, depending upon the rotor they may rub. Take the tang out and grind on it with a bench grinder some to get some more clearance.

Also check the clearance between the edge of the diameter of the rotor and the tang as well. If it does not fit flush against the abutment bracket, it will hang down and grind on the edge of the rotor.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 1:47
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j3studio RE:C5 front brakes
Elite Guru
Western Philadelphia Burbs
4247 Posts
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I'm extremely satisfied with my C5 brakes, but these particular ones are attached to a C5 ...
Posted on: 2008/1/22 2:12
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Horsepower844182 RE:C5 front brakes
Guru
Beaumont, TX
82 Posts
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Hmm...I'm starting to think I have C5 brakes on mine as well, they look a lot like those red ones.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 5:44
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sliding Re: C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
Zagreb, Croatia
326 Posts
Member since:
2005/11/25 0:00



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Quote:
I would say those are my brackets, but they are not stamped with PNWZR1 and I haven't sold any to Europe.

One thing you may want to take a look at is the metal tangs that fit in the abutment bracket, depending upon the rotor they may rub. Take the tang out and grind on it with a bench grinder some to get some more clearance.

Also check the clearance between the edge of the diameter of the rotor and the tang as well. If it does not fit flush against the abutment bracket, it will hang down and grind on the edge of the rotor.



I'm not sure if you made brackets but I bought those 2 years ago from
Ed Salinas. I believe he was CF member also.

Anyway, I took a closer look and it does look like there is scratching mark on rotor edge,
so maybe you're right about metal tangs rubbing on rotor.
Thanks.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 8:25
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'90 L98 auto with a lot of mods
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sliding RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
Zagreb, Croatia
326 Posts
Member since:
2005/11/25 0:00



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Quote:
The pads are likely your problem. You didn't state what kind you're using but try some Hawks and bed them in properly.
Yes, I have C5 brakes and used the bias spring. And I indeed found them to be an improvement over the J55s that came on my '95.


I'll probably order new rotors and pads in near future.
I've seen that everybody speaks good about Hawk pads, but what
kind of rotors are recomended?

Also I'll be adding some cooling ducts soon. That should help too.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 8:30
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LD85 RE:C5 front brakes
Master Guru
Indianapolis, Indiana
784 Posts
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2005/9/16 0:00



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I'm pleased with mt C5 brakes, but I dont break hard from 120 to zero.

I do bring it down from 120 to 35 or so at the track .
Posted on: 2008/1/22 11:58
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CasetheCorvetteman RE:C5 front brakes
Elite Guru
QLD, Australia
2071 Posts
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Im happy enough with my JL9s at the moment. Seems to be few people that can get them to work right.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 12:05
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sliding RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
Zagreb, Croatia
326 Posts
Member since:
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Quote:
I'm pleased with mt C5 brakes, but I dont break hard from 120 to zero.

I do bring it down from 120 to 35 or so at the track .


I haven't tested brakes on track yet, but I'm trying to get the car ready
for track days mostly. But from how it looks now, I don't think that I could
make 2 hard laps and still have brakes.


What about MC? Are you all using stock PBR unit?
I ask because mine is ready for replacment!
Posted on: 2008/1/22 16:43
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SpectatorRacing RE:C5 front brakes
Elite Guru
1721 Posts
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Quote:
I'll probably order new rotors and pads in near future.
I've seen that everybody speaks good about Hawk pads, but what
kind of rotors are recomended?

Also I'll be adding some cooling ducts soon. That should help too.


Rotors arent' going to matter much. Stick with a brand you trust and you'll be fine. Powerslot is a good brand, but they're probably pricey.

You don't need cooling ducts for the street. Add them if you like, but it's only a placebo. You may need them on the track some day, but not for awhile...once you get your brakes functioning correctly you'll be fine.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 17:51
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sliding RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
Zagreb, Croatia
326 Posts
Member since:
2005/11/25 0:00



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Quote:

Rotors arent' going to matter much. Stick with a brand you trust and you'll be fine. Powerslot is a good brand, but they're probably pricey.

You don't need cooling ducts for the street. Add them if you like, but it's only a placebo. You may need them on the track some day, but not for awhile...once you get your brakes functioning correctly you'll be fine.


Problem is that I don't have much choice here in Croatia so I have to order from US. And if I order something that's not good then it really
gets pricey.

As for ducts, I have allready started to convert car for track use since I
really rarely use it on the street. I don't mind driving track car on the
street but vice versa isn't good for me.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 19:02
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CentralCoaster RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
San Diego, CA
9454 Posts
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2007/10/28 0:00



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Sounds like they need to be bedded at least.

I had to rebed my wilwood after leaving some nasty pad deposits from locking em up on toasty hot brakes, I tried everything. Finally scuffed the rotors and pads down and took about a 1/2 hour of racing at Cal Speedway before the vibrations finally went away. The whole damn hood was shaking during the first part of the day under hard braking.

Smooth as silk now.

I highly recommend the bias spring, it'll compensate for the bias you lost by using C5 front brakes. Hopefully your m/c and abs are working properly and the C5 upgrade wasn't just done to mask the original problem.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 23:05
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Notorious RE:C5 front brakes
Elite Guru
Downbound train, NC
2184 Posts
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Central Coaster, can you explain here, as you did so well on CF one time, about how deposits from crappy and/or improperly bedded pads are generally often much more responsible for the vibrating pedal effect that folks assume are warped rotors? That was an eye-opener for me but I cannot explain it nearly as well as you did.
Posted on: 2008/1/22 23:08
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SpectatorRacing RE:C5 front brakes
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Quote:
Problem is that I don't have much choice here in Croatia so I have to order from US. And if I order something that's not good then it really
gets pricey.


Ahhh, that's a conundrum. Are you looking for a brand you can get there or just someone who will ship overseas? Try Porterfield-brakes.com, they have a nice selection. Although I'm not sure if they'll ship outside of North America. A big company like powerslot can hopefully help you. Brembo is always a quality choice, they have local offices in Europe, but again may kill you on cost.

Quote:
As for ducts, I have allready started to convert car for track use since I
really rarely use it on the street. I don't mind driving track car on the
street but vice versa isn't good for me.


Now this is good news. Most people just want to look cool...happy to hear you want repeatable braking for serious use.

When you do the ducting, purchase or fabricate a plate that forces the air directly into the center of the rotor and does not just blow air onto it. Otherwise you won't get much effect. You want the air to blow into the center and be dispersed through the rotor vanes, not just blow on the inside surface of the disk.
Posted on: 2008/1/23 0:50
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CentralCoaster RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
San Diego, CA
9454 Posts
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Quote:
Central Coaster, can you explain here, as you did so well on CF one time, about how deposits from crappy and/or improperly bedded pads are generally often much more responsible for the vibrating pedal effect that folks assume are warped rotors? That was an eye-opener for me but I cannot explain it nearly as well as you did.


The short answer is uneven pad deposits give you uneven friction and uneven rotor thickness. This becomes more noticeable as it heats up. So the rotor will feel like it's grabbing, releasing a bit, grabbing harder, etc. That give you shuddering.

I'm not sure what I posted there, I'll have to search for it.

Stoptech has lots of good tech info on their site though, I'll defer to them. I didn't invent this stuff. So I know the expansion isn't to be taken lightly.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml


Now, contrary to unpopular opinion, rotors CAN warp when hot. This is from uneven expansion, I presume from core shift. I've held plenty of rotors that had horrible core shift. One side would be 9mm wide and the other 7mm wide, so they absorb heat unevenly, and therefore expand unevenly. If you hold the rotor still and spin it, you can see the cooling vane gap wobble side to side even though the rotor surfaces are flat. This is usually a problem on chinese rotors but I've seen it on the oem replacement stuff too.

After even a light run on my wilwoods, I can hear the rotors shrinking, I hear it because the hats and rotors are 2-piece and move relative to eachother.
Posted on: 2008/1/23 1:17
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MyFatNutz RE:C5 front brakes
Guru Newb
7 Posts
Member since:
2008/1/12 0:00



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I converted mine @ 60,000 miles. The car now has 131,000 miles and the pads are down to the rivets. I used pfz-z rated pads with stock gm c5 rotors. The rotors have never warped and the pads have never squeeled. For some reason, the pfc-z pads always lasted the longest (60k+ miles on my 1LE camaro before I sold it) than any other brake pad. In addition, the pfc-z's never hammered the rotors either. I am replacing my pads with gm ceramic pads and again with stock rotors. I have a feeling that the ceramic pads might outlast the rotors.

One of the reasons I converted was that the long term cost of replacing the c4 brakes with the c5's was MUCH cheaper. Plus, the red Z06 calipers look cool; In addition to the beefier C5 caliper and thicker rotors.
Posted on: 2008/1/23 16:24
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sliding RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
Zagreb, Croatia
326 Posts
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2005/11/25 0:00



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Quote:

When you do the ducting, purchase or fabricate a plate that forces the air directly into the center of the rotor and does not just blow air onto it. Otherwise you won't get much effect. You want the air to blow into the center and be dispersed through the rotor vanes, not just blow on the inside surface of the disk.


I was thinking of install like in the pic below. If I understood you right, you
think that better cooling effect would be to bring air from direction
marked with arrow?

Resized Image

Here is what I have ordered for cooling ducts:

Resized Image

Resized Image
Posted on: 2008/1/23 16:39
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CentralCoaster RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
San Diego, CA
9454 Posts
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2007/10/28 0:00



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No. Bring air into the center, where the hub/bearing is. It's a tight space so some sort of transition to a sort of curved, wider, flatter duct would work better. This'll give you more even cooling.

That setup also looks a little dangerous because the caliper could swallow up that duct wire and jam up the brake, or make it so you have no brakes.
Posted on: 2008/1/23 18:05
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SpectatorRacing RE:C5 front brakes
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1721 Posts
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2007/12/29 0:00



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Sliding, as CC says you want the air flow to go into the center of the rotor, which will then send the air up through the center of the disc and out the edges (where you have your red arrow). Make sure the rotors you install are mounted the correct way, some are directional and some have straight vanes. Think of a fan - you want the vanes inside the rotor to "scoop" the air up in the center and blow it out the edge.

If you think about what you have in the first pic, you're only blowing air on the inside of the rotor, what cools the outside? In addition, with the speeds the rotor spins that momentary blast of air on the edge will be negligible in cooling a 5 lb piece of steel.

I'll go look for some pictures of what I'm talking about in case it's not clear.
Posted on: 2008/1/23 19:09
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CentralCoaster RE:C5 front brakes
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San Diego, CA
9454 Posts
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I checked google but almost every single one of em was done wrong! They're doing 90% of the work to get 50% of the results. :banghead]http://www.kennybrown.com/images/csr_8b.jpg[/img]

But even still I'd want some sort of transition there.

You can tell that was the point of these pieces:

Resized Image
Posted on: 2008/1/23 19:28
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SpectatorRacing RE:C5 front brakes
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1721 Posts
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Here you go, these aren't bad. The exit for the duct is into the center of the rotor, the plate around keeps the air from being able to escape somewhere else.

http://www.ecsracing.com/ecsracing/showthread.php?p=1573#post1573
Posted on: 2008/1/23 19:34
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sliding RE:C5 front brakes
Senior Guru
Zagreb, Croatia
326 Posts
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Posted on: 2008/1/23 20:07
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Notorious RE:C5 front brakes
Elite Guru
Downbound train, NC
2184 Posts
Member since:
2005/9/17 0:00



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Quote:
I am replacing my pads with gm ceramic pads and again with stock rotors.

One of the reasons I converted was that the long term cost of replacing the c4 brakes with the c5's was MUCH cheaper. Plus, the red Z06 calipers look cool; In addition to the beefier C5 caliper and thicker rotors.


Ditto on the cost savings in future replacement parts.
I got some GM ceramic pads that were AC/Delco-Duralasts, they were absolute crap. I have had good luck in the past though with ceramics from Raybestos and United.
Posted on: 2008/1/23 22:15
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