|
|
Register To Post |
| dan0617 | Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
 
|
Current setup is 383, HSR, forged internals, flat top (-5cc) pistons, AFR 195's shaved to 60CC. Cam is a flat tappet 230/236, 110 LSA, 1.7 rockers. All supporting mods already done. I do my own tuning. Car runs 10.55 @ 133 on a 200 shot, 12.08 @ 114 on motor. 3520 lb raceweight. Will be faster with a harder launch now that I have a D44.
Building a garage now, when done, I want to supercharge. Want the power all the time instead of out of the bottle. I am planning on changing to the AFR 195's with the 75cc combustion chambers to yield a 9.67:1 SCR. Keeping the same bottom end and cam. 80lb injectors and a KB boost a pump with the walbro 255hp. Going to run 50/50 water/meth instead of an intercooler. I'm thinking I'll run about 12lbs of boost at first, I'd like to run mid to low 10's in the 1/4 and I think that will do it with my setup. May want to run more than 12lbs if I need to to reach my goals. I was thinking of a D1 procharger, but I'd like it to be self contained. I don't know any D1SC bracket for my car. Was also thinking of a Vortech V7-JT Trim or a V7 YSI but I don't know what brackets are available for that either. I will contact Greg at Blowerworks when I'm ready if I need to, but was wondering what brackets are available for what head units for my car ('89). Also, what are your suggestions for head unit for me?? |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/16 21:51
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
 Transfer
|
 
|
||
| BrianCunningham | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
For a YSI, Greg is the only supplier I know.
|
||
Posted on: 2011/10/16 23:38
|
|||
|
_________________
Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| AKS_Racing | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Guru
 
|
An F1R would be a good candidate, but requires all custom brackets. It also requires rework of the hood frame.
For 12 psi on a mild 383, will not require 80lb/hr injectors, but I would recommend a better pump. Your times sound close to mine when I left the bottle and moved to the SC route. Went through several iterations, but the car remains with the R-series blower. If I were ever to do more, it would definitely be the TC route. Much experience on the TCs on bikes. Best of luck in your quest for FI. |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/17 0:40
|
|||
|
_________________
Miss Nasty: Bigger SBC with C4SP and just shy of 30 psi boost. Low 9.0s with low 160+MPH with a decent 60' (1.72 is decent for me these days). :thumbleft: |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| djxib | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
The YSi fits nice on a L98 and Greg has all the brackets you need. My YSi setup (LT1) was more complicated due to the sheer size of the blower and the location of the accessories compared to the L98.
Nothing quite like the surge of a blower, very controllable on the street and there when you need it.!! |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/17 1:50
|
|||
|
_________________
Andy 1996 Greenwood Collectors Edition LT4 Previously 1992 Convertible Polo Green. 383 LT1/LT4 forged/balanced. V7-YSi, Alky. 608RWHP... Now sitting at a dismantler with a salvage title. Still runs... |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
 
|
We went from Nitrous to a Pro Charger this year on our NMRA car. Now I know we are talking the space shuttle to a regular airplane here but the learning curve was huge for us. This entire season has been a huge test session.
Last year when the descision was being made to get off the bottle (we were the only car in 10-5 Outlaw), I pushed for a move to turbo's (almost everybody else is running them). I didn't think a blower could be competitive and honestly I didn't think it would be as fast as what we had already run.... but so far we have almost equalled our best 1/8th mile ET (4.38) and we have run more MPH - so there is promise. Of course with only 4 regular cars in the field now it looks like it don't matter if we get it fully sorted for next season or not. I will say Pro Charger (the company) has been 110% with holding up their end of the deal. Based on our experience with them on the race car, if I had to spend money on a project like yours I'd go with them. Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/17 17:14
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Thanks for the suggestions. I was actually leaning towards the F1 and the YSI as being too big for what I was looking for, and not worth the extra hassle of something like the D1 which should bolt right up from what I've read.
Wouldn't the D1, with water/meth instead of the restrictive intercooler, be capable of pretty high boost on my combo? High enough to get a 135 mph trap speed (700 rwhp plus or minus)? For the injectors, I figured I would go 80's so I wouldn't need to change again should I decide to try to go with 16 or so lbs of boost in the future. One thing I have realized about myself, the itch for more never ceases so I might as well prepare for more as I upgrade parts. Aaron...I can only imagine what a 160+ mph trap speed feels like!  Will...which procharger are you guys running? |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/18 0:59
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Aaron (AKS).... or anyone else who might know....
If I do go with a D1 Procharger, and spin it to it's max at my max (65000 impeller speed at my 6500 RPM redline), about how much boost would it make on my setup that I described above, figuring no intercooler, just water/meth? I know there is no definite exact answer at this point but I'm wondering if it will be like 15, 18, 20, or more? Wondering if I will need to pulley it down to less than the max impeller speed. |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/19 19:20
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| tjpreul | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Elite Guru
 
|
Quote:
Here is a spec sheet from Procharger. http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/19 20:08
|
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| AKS_Racing | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Guru
|
Quote:
This is a highly subjective question, as it depends upon your complete intake tract. The more restrictive the intake tract, the more the boost (not necessarily good on it's own merit). Boost does not necessarily equal HP. The more important question is how much flow (CFM) can I push into the engine, if everything is ideal. The answer is 1400CFM assuming MIS. However, you do not want to run MIS at max RPM, unless you are fairly certain you are not going to overspeed the blower more than ~5-7%. I usually recommend that people set max RPM at 90-95% MIS. The D1 head unit (1400CFM) with everything else perfect is capable of right at 800WHP. I hope this helps. Aaron |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/20 0:18
|
|||
|
_________________
Miss Nasty: Bigger SBC with C4SP and just shy of 30 psi boost. Low 9.0s with low 160+MPH with a decent 60' (1.72 is decent for me these days). :thumbleft: |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| 383tpimachine | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Master Guru
 
|
Quote:
There is a local spinning a D1SC to 68000rpm and making just under 900. I believe it put 886rwhp at the last dyno day. This was an LS1 396 however. |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/20 1:06
|
|||
|
_________________
1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
This has all helped alot. I guess what I'm trying to wrap my head around is how fast can I safely spin the blower (what pulleys should I start with), and not way overboost my engine. Safely as in safe for my engine, I got what you are saying that I can spin the blower safely to 90-95% max mis at my max rpm and be safe on the blower. Being a 383 with HSR, 230/236 cam on a 110 LSA, 1.7 rockeres, no restrictive intercooler in the intake tract, Hooker supercomps and true free flowing dual exhaust I'm trying to figure out roughly how fast to spin the propellor and not kill my motor with too much boost. I think at this point I'm going to plan on setting it up for about 60,000 impeller speed at about 6300 rpms (which is more or less my redline). Would I be safe to set it up at this at 9.67:1 compression or should I shoot for lower than that?? 9.67:1 would be easy with just a head swap but would my engine be able to handle that much compression with the D1 spinning at 60,000?? I know my cam will likely be letting some boost get away since it is on a 110LSA. Again I know there is no for sure answer but I am interested in you guys' educated opinions. Ooh....and if I get at or over 700RWHP I'd be very happy. I'm not number chasing, I'm comparing to what I have now on the bottle. That is more than I have now (according to calculating RWHP from weight and 1/4 mile ET) and I'm happy with the performance of the car now, just don't want to have to refill bottles anymore. Thanks again! |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/20 13:16
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
We are limited by NMRA rules to an F3... however being a direct Pro Charger supported car has it's advantages. We have a spare blower in the trailer that has a special impeller that should be worth a few hundred HP once we get the rest of the combo sorted. Like I said not sure it matters anymore. Most everyone has left the class gone to SSO or the other radial tire classes. We could go race in NMCA full time but we have run at some of thoses shows on and off for the past few years and they are struggling to fill the field just like NMRA. There is ORSCA and the ADRL and 1/8th mile is very appealing from an engine builder standpoint (easy on parts) but their rules are way different and our car won't get light enough to be competitive. The car owner is pushing ahead, so maybe NMRA can do something so we have a place to race. Anyway on your combo. I think the D1 (get the D1SC thou as it's self contained oiling system) is more than enough blower to do what you want to do. Really it gives you plenty of head room to expand in the future. It's capable of making over 900HP and there are better ways to intercool it that the P/C factory air to air system. For street cars I like air to air but it takes up alot of space if you have everything sized right for the HP..... Meth injection would make the pressure side easy to plumb, but I don't have any experience running it other than the little meth/water kit that came with the Paxton Novi 2K's back in the day.... Good luck with yours. Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/20 17:48
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Thanks Will.
What kind of power is that engine putting down? Sounds absolutely killer! |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/21 0:32
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
Exactly what I'm striving for! How much boost are you running with that YSI? And what is your static compression ratio? I still have to figure out what SCR would be best for me. |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/21 0:35
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
It's a 550 inch Big Block Ford with the new Profiler (C460 improved) cyl heads, Singe 4bbl cast intake (sheetmetal elbow and converted to EFI). It put down over 1800RWHP thru a Powerglide that blew up the day after we got it off the dyno (first pass down the track). Thats also thru a 6000RPM converter, 30X10.5 slicks and a 9" 3.70 gears. Those were not power pulls, they were just get the tune sorted enough that he could go and make some passes to get it 100% at the track. From what the tuner said you can't make full power dyno pulls with something like this. We fixed the glide and it blew up again a few passes later... so we are now running an air shifted B&J 2 spd with a converter drive. Our best with the 632 inch NO2 engine was 4.39 in the 1/8th and 7.02@201mph in the 1/4. So far we have been 4.42 in the 1/8th with the new Pro Charger deal and I don't rember the excact MPH's on the 1/8th miles but the Pro Charger deal is about 4mph faster that our best with Nitrous. Keep in mind these times are in a 2900LB car on real 10.5" wide tires. Mike Murillo and Conrad Scary can run 6.70's in qualifying but they slow down or burn the motors up trying to run that fast every pass. We could run 7.0's every pass with the old NO2 set up.... as long as the car was hooked up. We are hoping once the Pro Charger combo is sorted that we will be able to better them. Here is the old NO2 motor where Jim won the NMRA World Finals last year. Conrad tried to put his qualifying tune up on it for us in the finals. Jim cut a huge light on him, then the track wouldn't hold all that turbo power down the track. Jim has some videos of the testing passes with the Pro Charger combo on his facebook. Completely different chassis reaction. Far less violent hit. Sorry to clutter up your thread. Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/21 17:13
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Awesome video! I would have crapped myself if I were in the car in the left lane. You aren't cluttering up my thread, I'm glad you described and posted that. Man that is awesome!
|
||
Posted on: 2011/10/22 15:36
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Dan-
My brother is going to put a call in to our contact at Pro Charger. He is going to give me a number so you can call and talk over your tech questions with somebody (and not the $6 an hour somebody that answers the 1-800#). Give me a few days as it's the weekend - given it's opening day for rifle season people are hunting. Yea Conrad getting out of shape.... that's pretty common with 10-5 Outlaw cars. 3000HP in a heavy car on little tires is some kind of way to go racing.... Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/22 17:36
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Thanks! NO hurry, will be a little while before I can afford to bring this all together anyway. I'm building a garage to work in for the first time in my life. No more working outside!
I'm also still not 100% sure if I will go Procharger or Vortech, but maybe he can answer some of my questions I have about Prochargers. |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/28 16:11
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Aaron,
What headgaskets do you run? And what would you suggest for me, running 12 up to maybe 16 psi? Do you use head bolts or studs? I am planning on re-using my ARP bolts. Ooh...you mentioned that 80lb injectors would be more than needed. If I do push all the way to 16lbs of boost, what size injectors do you think would be needed? Do you make and sell any brackets? I saw lots of threads about your bracket setup. |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/28 16:15
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| Matatk | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Webmaster
 
|
Quote:
Dan, I'm no expert but I always thought you should be shooting for the 8ish range with a turbo/blower. Will, can you comment? Matthew |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/29 2:01
|
|||
|
_________________
2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| djxib | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
SCR is around 9:1. I am currently gently breaking-in the motor so I have it restricted to around 4900 RPM. I'll be allowing it to run close to redline (should be around 6500) at the dyno in a month or two. It's sized for around 14 psi but we'll see what happens.. |
||
Posted on: 2011/10/31 22:07
|
|||
|
_________________
Andy 1996 Greenwood Collectors Edition LT4 Previously 1992 Convertible Polo Green. 383 LT1/LT4 forged/balanced. V7-YSi, Alky. 608RWHP... Now sitting at a dismantler with a salvage title. Still runs... |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
I think 8:1 is for the unefficient older roots type blowers and guys who are running 25 or so psi. 9:1 seems like a good target and should allow for tons of boost but would require me changing pistons or going to heads that I don't want to run. Running thicker headgaskets to lower compression kills the quench and ends up worse than just running higher compression with a good quench. I'm planning on .040 gaskets with a .005 deck height, so quench distance would be .045. Although compression would be higher I might consider a .035 gasket to get even better quench. My thought is 9.6 to 9.8, with 93 octane, water/meth injection, solid 11.5:1 AFR and timing dialed in by watching spark plugs for flecks should be good for up to 16 psi. Just looking for anyone who has tried and succeeded or failed or any input. |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/1 21:10
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
7.5 to 8.1SCR is a good starting point for the old roots blowers making big power on the street because of the amount of boost - well actually the large amounts of pressurized super heated air they pump at low RPM.
Anybody who knows anything about engines knows that as RPM (piston speed) increases detonation resistance goes up (less time approaching and @TDC). Modern Procharger/Paxton/Vortec blowers have impellers and pulleys that build boost in a very linier fashion consumate with impeller (and engine RPM). Then alot of guys are adding in air to air or air to water intercoolers or meth injection..... It's alot more forgiving to build HP with. On a street car with a Procharger 9.1SCR is probally where you want to be up to about 650hp on 93 octane (probally 850HP on 108-110gas). 9.5 would get by but you'll have to be careful with the timing curve. Which brings up another point.... Quench is not important in a supercharged engine. Running the quench @.040 or under (like is optimal NA) causes big problems with the tune up in a supercharged engine. In your case Dan I'd look at .050 to .055 quench. I'd also look into and read up as much as you can find about combustion "Chamber Softening". Those double quench pad AFR Elim chambers will really make your tuning window narrow. Sam Vincent in KY or Curtis Boggs (RFD) in VA would be a good phone call to make if you can't find anything on the net. Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/1 22:49
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Wow....I've never heard a larger quench distance is better on a boosted engine. What issues would a tight quench cause for me? I will research chamber softening as well.
|
||
Posted on: 2011/11/2 12:51
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
The whole theroy behind quench area, is that small spaces cause turbulance during the compression stroke and once the plug fires those tight spaces cause the flame front to move faster across that part of the piston/chamber face as it burns the mixture trapped in them.
This allows you to run less timing advance and still make the same HP... ie burn the same amount of fuel in less time..... This is great for NA because it makes the engine more efficient, since NA it relys on it's own dynamics as an "air pump" to make HP. This is not the case with a blower or NO2. You have enhanced mixture either thru a mechanical or chemical means. When you have that greater displacement of air and fuel in almost the same amount of area, you are already speeding up the flame front because the larger amount of fuel has to be burned in the given amount of time. In a supercharged engine (espc NO2 - but this applies to all FI) the burn can get out of control in a hurry. Faster flame propogation in the chambe is the enemy of HP in any type of supercharged engine. Too fast of flame front causes detonation, which forces you to retard the timing. By firing the plug latter you push alot of potential power out the exhaust valve just to keep detonation under control. By increasing quench and changing the shape of the quench areas in the chamber you slow down the flame front. You give yourself (the tuner) a bigger "window" to adjust timing and A/F to make the safest and most HP. The biggest problem you'll see is super small timing/AF adjustments make huge swings in power output, then you reach a point in power output where nothing happens - until it burns down all at once. Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/2 16:19
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| 383tpimachine | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Master Guru
|
These are MLS head gaskets from cometic. .051 compressed thickness.
H1075SP3051S they are nice but are $180 for the set. |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/2 22:27
|
|||
|
_________________
1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| AKS_Racing | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Guru
|
Sorry about the late response, but have been away. Headed out to tour Latin America again next week.
I ran the FelPro gaskets with ARP bolts for a long time with great success (18 psi). I also ran right at 9.6:1 SCR. My current combo runs ARP studs with just over 9.3:1SCR and I am just slightly over 3Bar, and yes, I am running just a bit blind during certain times of the year. I will agree with much of what is posted above, the tune needs to be close to correct all the time when you are running the higher SCRs. You could be far more lax with the tune if you started with a lower SCR. But you would also have a lazy car, off boost. Build the combo with boost that starts to come in at the lowest RPM possible and tune for that combo. I do not have any brackets, but am more than willing to share my expertise for others to follow the same path to run boost without belt slip. ProCharger has options that make this a reality. |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/4 1:26
|
|||
|
_________________
Miss Nasty: Bigger SBC with C4SP and just shy of 30 psi boost. Low 9.0s with low 160+MPH with a decent 60' (1.72 is decent for me these days). :thumbleft: |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
It is amazing how the quench distance thing is all over the board depending who you talk to. Tony Mamo has suggested I stay with a .040 quench even on a boosted engine. Many people on the net say quench means prettymuch nothing on a boosted engine. Some say between .060 to .120, give or take, is a hazardous range, lower than .060 or more than .100 is safe. I just don't know what to shoot for.
Lately I have been thinking of using gaskets that will give me a .056, or gaskets that will give me a .075. Is .075 too much and will cause detonation? Is .056 not enough on a boosted application and will make the tuning window to avoid detonation way too small? My head is starting to hurt. Aaron....looking at your combo....what is your quench distance? Are you happy with it or do you wish you had done something different? |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/7 16:11
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
This statement is what I'm finding to be true.....but.....will going bigger than .055 be better than going .055? Will going bigger (giving lower compression, getting me closer to 9.3 or so) be better than staying at 9.5 and having a .055 quench distance? Is there quenching properties still going on at .055 in a boosted engine that keeps it more detonation resistant compared to going to say .080? |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/7 16:16
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Quote:
The answer is "It depends on what your doing". That's why your getting different answers from different boards and even with several different sucessful builds - because I bet there is alot of output (HP) and use differences in those engines. One size dosen't fit all and it's all about managing flame front propogation and keeping heat off the top ring. Lower compression is more detonation resistant given the same fuel properties, load, ect. Quench areas speed up the flame front propogation and that is bad in a boosted engine. Different fuels burn at different rates and have different outputs. Different chambers require less or more timing advance..... There is far too much to know to "know it all" and thats why all engine builders have baselines to draw from. With something like yours.... Your shooting above most street cars but no where near a real race car.... In the past with stuff like yours I just split the starting differences and it's worked out fine. I think anywhere in the .050-.060 is fine as long as you get the compression where you want it. Given your options - I personally would build 9.3 SCR with whatever the quench comes out to as long as it's in that .050-.60 range. Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/7 17:00
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| dan0617 | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
Well, if I change to the 75CC AFR 195's I see 2 decent head gasket choices in the MLS gaskets.
.051 thick (giving a .056 quench distance) yields 9.53 SCR. .070 thick (giving a .075 quench distance) yields 9.17 SCR. Sounds like I'd be better with the .051 gaskets so my quench stays in the .050 to .060 range even though the SCR is a little higher than the 9.3 range? Or would the higher quench distance and lower compression be the better of the 2 choices here? I will be doing my own tuning and know how to keep things safe but I am not an expert tuner so I don't want something that will be a nightmare to tune and be on the ragged edge of detonation all the time. Sure glad to have you guys' advice here, else I would have went with a tight quench distance and ended up with a tuning nightmare by the sounds of it. |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/11 16:49
|
|||
|
_________________
´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| rklessdriver | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Senior Guru
|
I think at your pump gas street power levels either will be fine. Because of the difference in timing advance (before you get into detonation) I'd bet there won't be 5-10hp difference between them. I'd expect the 9.1 motor to stand 3*-5* more timing advance below 5000RPM.
When you put it on race gas and turn the boost up I think the 9.5 motor will have enough of a power advantage that I would build it. I don't think either will be super sensitive on the tune. If you've kept you current NO2 deal together, this should be easy. Will |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/11 17:45
|
|||
|
_________________
1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
| AKS_Racing | Re: Supercharger Suggestions | ||
|
Guru
|
Quote:
Sorry guys, I have been in Brazil lately, and don't read these forums while on the road. I run right at 0.042" quench, so I am more in the traditional camp. But I will say that the car is sensitrive to the tune. You do not want to miss the tune when you are at 30 psi. As far as what I would have done different: 1) I would probably use the lower angle valves (i.e. read as 18°, 15°, 13° heads / intake / pistons). I have a complete 18° set-up and an SB2.2, just have never put them in service. 2) I would have went TC vs SC. I have had TC and SC cars, just never really turned up the wick on the TCed stuff. In the last 2 years, I have had several TC'ed GSX-R1000s, with my latest combo being right at 340WHP in a 350lb bike. The potential of the TC is unmatched. 3) Would have turned the TB sideways (as in over to the R side of the car) and packaged this A2W IC that I have had sitting for a few years. This has 4" inlet and outlet and would handle the power of this combo. I have never really gotten comfortable with the xxOH injection. IC is reliable. 4) Possibly a different SR cam. Currently right at 0.670" at 248/254 @ 0.050". But it sure does justice to the name of the car, "Miss Nasty". The SC route worked well for my goals, and I really don't see me messing with this combo at this point. It makes way more power than you ever need on the street and does decent at the track (traps over 160). If I really got it ever to hook and break my previous best of .04 (at a 1.72s 60'), it will probably break lots of stuff. I am content with it for now. |
||
Posted on: 2011/11/12 16:22
|
|||
|
_________________
Miss Nasty: Bigger SBC with C4SP and just shy of 30 psi boost. Low 9.0s with low 160+MPH with a decent 60' (1.72 is decent for me these days). :thumbleft: |
|||
|
Transfer
|
|
||
You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.
|
|