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| bogus | LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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OK... I am still debugging my 92... but that's another issue I will address this weekend. I needed a break from it, so a week away was a good thing. Get a new perspective and such.
However, I need to start considering the LT1 that I am putting into this car. It is a 1996 LT1, with an auto. I have an OEM dual mass flywheel, so bringing it into balance shouldn't be an issue. It has a nominal 61k miles on it and has not been started in several years. My first goal is to reoil it internally, so there are no dry spots (oil the wrist pins and cam, soak the cylinders, oil the valves). With the engine out of the car, this becomes rather easy. Just poor some oil on parts and let it leach in. I want to bring up the power a bit and have been mulling some ideas around. I am, at the very least going to do a cam upgrade. I want to the the LT4 hot cam kit, or equivalent. My thinking is that whatever cam I do now, with 1:6.1 roller rockers and push rods, I can reuse down the road. I want good stuff... no junk that will fail in 6 months. Heads, however important, may not fit my budget right now. And finding something good and used for the LT1/4 is hard. So I may leave heads stock for now, and update them in a few months when I have a better idea of budget. The old LT1 will be torn down and the bottom end will become a 383 or something. But that is 2+ years down the road. The overall project plan is this: 87 = Bastet44's 87 coupe 92 = my 92 coupe Remove LT1 (87) Pickle the 4L60E (87) Prep new LT1 (92) Install new LT1 (92) Pickle old LT1 (92) Restore body and interior (87) Install LSx and 4L60E (87) Rebuild old LT1 as 383 (92) Thoughts? Cam comments? Remember, I have to deal with CARB here... bastards... but I do. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 19:32
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| Durango_Boy | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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I think the 383 would be cooler in the '87, and the LS engine would be spot on in the '92. My two pennies.
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 20:12
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| BillH | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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What, no throttlebody airfoil??????
 I'd use a squirt of ATF or Marvil in the cylinders. Since the motor's out,putting in a new cam will give you access to what needs oiled on the top end. And, I'd put in a new pan gasket which would make it easy to check the bearings and their clearance + putting fresh oil on them. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 20:13
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The computer control on 1990+ C4s makes this an annoying prospect. The CCM controls traction control, abs, engine, climate and IP. Upset that kettle of fish and all sorts of things stop working. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 21:15
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| Durango_Boy | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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So you couldn't use an independent form of engine control and simply disconnect the engine from the CCM? |
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 22:04
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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That can be done... but it's real complex. You have to reprogram the dummy engine controller to not throw codes on every little thing. Essentially, the old engine controller simply becomes a data reader.
Guldstrand has done it. It can be done. And I don't think Dick is gonna tell me how they did it. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 22:42
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| rklessdriver | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Cheapest cam option for CA emissions is a Hot Cam or the LPE 219.
My cam grinder can put 20hp on either of those grinds and still pass emissions (plus near stock idle) but the cam will set you back about $350.00.... You'll need valve springs reguardless so once you decide on the cam we can figure out what you'll need. Mark Bychowski has a set of Crane rockers on CF for $150 and some guide plates for $20.... thats a good deal on the rockers... but you'll need to spend another $25 or so to get the proper (short) poly locks. New Scorpion rockers will set you back about $250 and IMO that's the best quality for the money you can get in a rocker arm. You won't know what push rods to buy until you get ready to assemble everything and measure. I have the tools to do it right and will be glad to loan them to you when the time comes. TFS and Manley make good quality pushrods that won't set you back too much... about $100-$200 a set. Keep an eye out for heads. Occasionally some older LE, AI and TEA hand ported LTX heads show up for sale. Heck a couple of months ago I saw a set of Combination Motor Sports CNC ported LT1's on racing Junk for like $700.... Don't forget the gaskets you'll need to put it back together, which brings me to head gaskets. The Victor PN 5898 is good for a lil bump in compression. The rest sounds good. A oil pump primer shaft isn't expensive and you can prime an LTX with the intake off. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 22:56
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I have a primer tool, figured I would also let gravity be my friend.
I will have to check racing junk for deals. Thanks for the tip on springs, wasn't 100% sure on that. I think you can still get the entire hot cam kit for about $500... or you used too... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12480002/ still can, but the kit is now $650.00. only thing lacking are the hardened push rods. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/2 23:11
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| flyboy | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Elite Guru
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"... hardened push rods". So you're going to use real guide plates and non self aligning rockers?
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 0:03
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I guess it depends on which kit I select. I thought hardened was required either way, to be honest.
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 0:44
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| rklessdriver | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Senior Guru
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Hardened pushrods not nessesscary with SA rockers but not bad either.... as all quality pushrods will be hardened anyway.
Dang $650 for the GM Hot Cam kit..... thats alot of $$$ and you still need to spend a bill on pushrods.... Before I spent that much I'd look for GOOD used stuff. BTW I sent you a PM on some LE1 heads I happen to see today. I also know that Noland has a set of stock LT4 cyl heads, GM LT4 intake and a hot cam just laying around. I could ask him for prices if you want. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 0:58
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| Matatk | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Webmaster
 
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I don't know why everyone is so fixated on a 383. Maybe because I have it now it's not so great. But if I knew then what I know now...it'd be a 355 with some AFR heads and a nice cam. Less money and less headache, still good power. Just my .02.
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 3:27
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| tjpreul | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Elite Guru
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I still have the head and intake gaskets from the engine set if you need them.
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 4:57
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Vegas wasn't built on winners. '92 auto, MSD, Banski, Taylor wires, SS lines, C5 rims, 3.07 gears, white gauges, seats from a '96. Motor: Forged rotating assy, Probe pistons, CC valvetrain, AFR heads, Procharger P1SC |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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TJ - Thanks! I will keep that in mind!
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 4:59
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
I am not "fixated" on the 383; it's down the road. I do believe that a well built 383 with the right head/cam package is nearly unbeatable. Now... a good 355 (to clarify, a 355 is a 350 with a .030 over bore), will rev nicely but won't have the stump pulling torque that the 383 would get. A lurking guru, Arisa, has an LT4 with good heads (don't remember specs), LT4 hot cam, long tubes, thin head gaskets and some other tricks, but is still a stock short block, and get tons of power... 450 at the crank or there abouts. Pulls like a freight train. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 5:02
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Matatk | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Webmaster
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I say "fixated" because every thread when someone mentions a rebuild, they automatically say 383. I think a 355 is more than sufficient in 99% of rebuilds. I should have gone that route with a few different choices....but we live and learn.
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 15:41
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Matt I have planned a few 383 builds for people and built quite a few 355s. I'm totally with you on the simplicity of a 355. However, for a good 355 you are probably still looking at a new crank and pistons...the same things that make a stroker. In my comparisons, I can build a 383 for 'almost' the same money as a 355...if you count machine shop labor and parts replacements that have to be done on either choice. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 18:54
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| biggrizzly | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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I dunno, I'm really loving my 383 these days! Its not politically correct to say why I feel this way on a forum like this but it will roll with the new ones pretty good.
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 20:21
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I don't agree. You can easily reuse the stock crank and rods with a 355. Unless you really plan to stress it, the OEM stuff should be ok. If you find the need to replace it, then go 383. At that point, the cost of parts is moot. Unless you are on a budget, then a used OEM crank might just get the job done. Either way, you will need pistons. That's a given. OEM pistons will not fill in that .030 gap. To be honest, ANY rebuild will have teething issues. It's all about experience and knowing what to expect. This 383 I plan on building, I will DIY it. I had planned on other options, but with the luxury of time, all I will need to pay for is machine work and balancing. I will assemble. If it takes me a month to get the mains bolted in, then that's what it takes. This is just an example... But it could take time, if the bearings fail a microgauge, then I will need to reorder bearings and regauge. Only when it is right will I be happy. But this part of the project is down the road. I just want to pick bolt ons that will be reusable on the new short block, too. Why repeat the effort. It's why I bought a DeWitt's radiator instead of some generic POS that will leak in 2 years... it's why I have gone to the hassle of doing the LTCC conversion. All goals to make the basic car better. Now it has 180k on it, and I need to make some decisions. I don't want to take on a car payment right now. Technically, we could afford it, but I don't want to tie up the money that way. If I have $500 I can spend this month, great, I will spend it, but if I don't, I won't be REQUIRED to do so. And in CA, a newer car costs more to register. With my personalized "VET GURU" tag, it costs about $120 a year to register, but if I had a newer Vette, say a late C5 or early C6, I could expect to see that reg fee double or even triple. At the same time, my auto insurance would go up about $600 a year. In short, my plan makes sense... and with time on my side, I can pick and choose. When I do my short block, this is my plan: Magnaflux block to be 100% sure it is solid! Forged crank, Calles or SCAT New rods (would love titanium, but that would be a waste of $$) Internally balanced Appropriate balancer for the front Hendricks racing pulleys - if you haven't seen these, they are the SHIT, yo. They are cogged, so the belt won't slip, ever. and if an LT1 kit exists!! Block machined - line bored for crank and cam Billet main caps Torque plate boring All internals ported and relieved, as required Deburring the valley - improves oil flow back (I doubt I will mess with the epoxy paint, I think I can clean up the metal enough so as to not worry about that) AFR Hydra-Rev kit - something about the product that makes a ton of sense LS7 lifters - this is currently the trick of tricks Headers and bullet cats - yes, I am going to flirt with CARB here, but if the cats are doing their job, no one will care. If I am doing the myself, some of the above is stuff I can do, porting and relieving the various fluid ports; cutting out the material on the block for the crank throws... things like that will save a few bucks at the machine shop. Using a seasoned block will go a long way to avoiding core shift and things like that. But this is 2+ years down the road. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/3 21:34
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| tjpreul | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Elite Guru
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I want to be sure I have this correct. You are putting the '96 LT1 into your car while you rebuild yours.
If this is the case I would not buy any bolts on for the '96. I would install it as is. My reason for this is that plans always change. You might end up picking a completely different cam, or springs. Plus you would be putting brand new heads on a stock bottom end. Being that they are two different engine ideas I would not mix them. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/4 17:48
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Vegas wasn't built on winners. '92 auto, MSD, Banski, Taylor wires, SS lines, C5 rims, 3.07 gears, white gauges, seats from a '96. Motor: Forged rotating assy, Probe pistons, CC valvetrain, AFR heads, Procharger P1SC |
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I haven't committed to much of anything at this time, TJ.
I can't see a change effecting, say, roller rockers and valve springs much. I say the 383 is 2+ years down the road, but the operative is "PLUS". So I want a little punch now... If I put AFR heads on a stock bottom end, as long as I keep the revs below 6k, I should be a-ok.. I don't abuse, I just want a little more straight line for freeway merging and such. Also, when I DO install the 383, it won't be quite the culture shock. I would have built up to it. AFR 195s and a hotcam kit will work just as well on a 350 as it will on a 383... at least that's what I have observed. And still keep me marginally CARB legal. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/4 18:00
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| screamin_conure | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Hey Andy, have you looked into something like this? LT1 bolt-on kit I know that it includes heads which you were still holding off on, and is therefore a little pricy at $2,500.00 (plus the cost of rocker arms, timing chain, injectors and tuning), but it at least appears to be a nice little package custom tailored to the 92-96 LT1. Unfortunately, I don't see anywhere on Trick Flow's website if the kit is 50-state compliant either, but I don't see anywhere that it's not legal in California. I'll add my disclaimer right now, and say that I have no experience with this kit. Just thinking that it looks like an attractive package, and if I were personally looking to do some mods to my car, it's something I'd probably look into. |
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Posted on: 2011/12/5 18:37
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| bogus | Re: LT1 Bolt Ons | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I will read that later today or tomorrow when I have the time.
It's busy today/tomorrow... bastet has a big fundraiser she is organizing, and well, that means I am busy helping organize a big fundraiser!  It's all good. Just means I won't be able to do jack to the Vette until Wednesday. THANKS!!! |
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Posted on: 2011/12/5 20:40
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