I'm in my third year of autocross. The first runs for me were more like drifting runs than autocross but that was the start of the learning curve. I think what my main problem now is charging the curves and scrubbing off too much speed or braking for too long like a coast into the corners instead of stabbing the brakes and accellerating earlier out of the turn. I know there are different lines and taking a tight line often means you have to scrub off more speed. I've tried running a middle line trying to improve my track times.
I have about 18 events under my belt and clearly should be several seconds faster than what I'm doing. So I'm appealing to the veteran racers to share a tip or two that may help me improve my runs. I've had instructors ride along but they never really give me anything that is helping my performance. Basically they just comment about running on street tires. I know I'd pick up better time with track tires. But if I continue to run on street tires I really just want to improve my run time without going to the expense and hassle of bringing an extra set of wheels and tires. I drive either C4 Corvettes or an 83 Porsche 911 SC. My run times are similar in each car 90 stock coupe 6 speed, faster when I bring the 383 but that moves me up in class so I'm still running slow for that group. Thanks guys and gals. Any help is appreciated. Fire away, flame suit on.

Tip #1: Don't crash.

I'm not much help other than that. But good luck. I am thinking about trying some autocross, too, once everything on the car gets fixed.

Matthew

Most people I see at the track pussy foot into the corners on the brakes. Does your car push like a dog into the corners, or does the ABS ever activate? I don't think you'll be doing much drifting if you use the brakes to their potential. These cars actually do push in the corners, and really bad if you're trailbraking. Of course I'm not counting throttle oversteer.

I don't think you'll find any track tips that would apply to auto-X though. I'm still learning, I'm no vet.

Have you ever considered letting a veteran driver take your car out with you in it? There's plenty of good drivers, but in my experience, only a few are good at instructing someone else at it.

And FWIW, there's usually only one (fast) line around the track, and it involves clipping some cones,every now and then, so I'm not sure what you mean by running the middle.


All I can really say is move the seat forward (for steering control), up (for visibility) and buy really really good wheel bearings.

What I meant was sweeping a turn wider as opposed to the low side maintaining a higher speed through the turn. I haven't been really good at finding the best apexes through a curve.

Hitting the apex of the turn and clipping that inside cone makes it wider and more gradual than you'll ever get by hanging on the outside of a turn. But you never really get a chance to learn the line when doing auto-x anyways.

Yea, what Kevin said is right.
Good instructors who provide proper feedback are hard to find, mostly because at these events they are volunteers. And they don't use intercoms or spend 10 minutes doing a debrief after each session.

The basics are, the faster the corner or the wider the corner, the later the apex. Most autox turns are fairly tight so it's an early apex, stab and steer.

The best thing right now would be to do a couple of ride alongs with an experienced driver if possible.

Do you have any books on hi performance driving ? They'll help you to understand apex's better.
Somewhere out there, there's a book on Autocross, I don't see it in my race catalogs. Try a search.

A really good investment would be the DVD from www.hooked ondriving.com These guys run some of the best HPDE's in the country. They started out in N.Cal/Reno and now have branches in Vegas and the Northeast.

Kinda hard not being there 1st hand, but here we go...

Slow in, fast out is the golden rule.

I do both road courses, and autocrossing, most of the same rules apply, but some are different. You can get away with stuff at and autocross, that you'd never want to do on a road course. ie) snap-turns.

look ahead as much as possible, most people are concentrating too much on the cones in front of them, they mess up their line. The time between turns in much smaller at an autocross than on a road course.

Drive the 1st runs slow, get to know it, and then pick up speed. You have more than one run, use them all.

Draw a map of the course, especially if they don't chalk the course.

How's your car setup?
Stock, our cars tend to understeer pretty bad.
My car came with the 255f/285r setup and it was really bad.
You'll want as much camber in the front as you can.

Here's a real good summation:
http://www.lvrscca.org/soloII/tips.htm

Check out my videos, and not just of my car, and you should pick up some good pointers.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=swiftwood

Slow In, Fast out.
It does sound like Tommy's overdriving a little, may be causing the drifting.

Looking Ahead.
It's one thing I see on almost everyone I coach. I tell guys to look out 3x from where I can see their eyes pointed.
Looking ahead slows everything down mentally.
A lot of guys are fixated on cones. In HPDE's where there's braking, apex and exit cones, I work on getting the driver to pick up a cone and then forget it while looking towards the next cone. This has the effect of moving your vision out too. Like when you start your turn in, you pick up the apex point/cone and immeadiately look for the exit point/cone. Your mind retains the visual on the apex cone without the need to stare at it and you hit the apex just right. This really makes the corners much smoother.

Track Maps
Always, I do trackmap debriefs at the end of every session. It's the same thing as walking an autocross course. It puts mental images in your mind for the next session.
I've seen Pro drivers sit down, draw a map and put down every brake point, bump and everything else on a map.

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And that habit gets real easy when you look up and see rocks, smoke, and a car sitting backwards in the middle of the track "that came out of nowhere".

Although I'm familiar with most of what has been mentioned, Thanks for the recap. I walk the track trying to position myself where I should drive on the course. For most of the course I look ahead pretty well but on tight turns I tend to get short sighted. I think I brake too early going in and that sets me up for the poor time. Just need more seat time and practice I guess. I've always been more of a soft braker on the street and it's tough for me to adjust to more aggressive braking. Accelleration out of the turns doesn't seem to be to much of an issue but I tend to be out of balance with one rear wheel slightly elevated no doubt effecting tire contact.. The Corvettes push (understeer) and the Porsches tend to break away (oversteer). Being a late bloomer in autosport participation I'm just happy to be driving our cars. There are plenty of books available and I've got acccess to some damn good instructors. I'm just picking brains of the folks I know trying to get some of it to stick and someday be able to "that's what they were talking about". Keep em coming.

The best tip is get as much wheel time as possible. Unfortunately that's hard to do in AutoX.

A single HPDE will get you about 25x more seat time than an autoX for about 5x the cost. Obviously it doesn't all translate to autoX, but it got me to decide that I didn't want to put any more time into autoX.

Plus I have a hard time learning and building on my previous run when I have to sit for an hour in between "laps", and stress about not screwing up the next run since I only get a few.

Same goes for the dragstrip. With 4-5 runs in one night, I could never improve. It wasn't until I found a place down here that I could get 15+ runs in one night and even hotlap at the end of the day that I really started improving.

Do you have any roadcourses nearby?

The three roadcourses are Homestead, Sebring and Morosso
(which is under upcoming construction). They run about $250 for a day and $375 for a Sat./Sun.drivers education runs. We'll be getting into that pretty soon. We've just been tightening everything up mechanically so we can go out and wear it out or break it again. Autocross has just been a stepping stone to bigger and better things to come. Like I said previously, for us, it's more about fun than competition.

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Oh yea, it's nice to avoid that crap and get to drive your car home at the end of the day.
It's the guy that hits you in the ass that's scary.

When you say "get as much negative camber upf front", how much difference in negative camber front to rear is a good starting point?
Also, smooth is fast. Of course I try to be as afast as possible and push the car, as you would be surprised how far you can push a C4 before losing it.

Steve - typically about 0.5* less in the rear than in the front. C4's don't need much rear negative camber. Of course I'm talking about for open track, someone correct me if Autocross requires a different set up.

Tommy - one thing I didn't see mentioned is to ride along with other guys who you feel are capable. Having someone ride with you is nice, but as you said you're not getting feedback. Ride with someone good, watch their line, their speeds into corners, hand movement, shift points, etc.

Street tires won't make a difference...yes, you'll be quicker on sticky tires, but they won't help you learn anything as a driver. Figure out what you're doing wrong so you can improve, then move to R's. They'll do nothing for you now (unless you're chewing up your streets and ruining them.)

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So many inappropriate comments running through my head right now...

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Hummmmmm, shows where your head is.

Slow in fast out - LOOK AHEAD
If you are looking ahead far enough, the turn you are coming up on is already plotted, both position and speed, the exit is set by the position and speed of the entry (slow in). The exit of the turn should place you in the correct position for the next element (fast out). All of this input should takes place prior to the previous turn or element.
Drive the course in your mind over and over and over until you know where the turns, straights, slalom and key cones are. If you go to a new town and try to find the market, you end up puttin' along not sure where to go. In a familiar town, you drive right to the market, know where the lights and driveways are.
Drive the first run at about 7/10ths. Then re-run the drive in your mind to see where you can push you and the car to limits. Try different things during the day, change one section at a time. If you time improves, it was right, if you slow down, you did it wrong. Seat time will you better, but ONLY if you push your own envelope.
I run my 91 auto in AS with Kuhmo V710's. However, the basic alignment is about the same as when running street tires. All shims out on the fronts should give you -.9* to -1.25* camber. Caster is not an issue. Toe out should be 1/4" to 3/8" total. If your pushing a ton, increase toe out a little at a time. The rear on mine likes a lot of negative camber so I run -1.75* to -2.25*, depending on the course layout. You could probably start with -1.75* and see how the car feels as well as check the temps across the tires as soon as you can get over after the finish. The temps should be pretty close to even from the outside to inside.
The last thing on my list now is to get all the S2000's out of AS. They been kickin my butt for a while.
Remember that autocross is a lot like sex. If there is no squealing, your not pushing hard enough!
Subman

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