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Durango_Boy | Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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I have been building this engine for a very long time. It's actually been built once before but I scrapped the design because I wanted more compression and had to choose new heads, pistons, and cam.
The block is a SBC 400, bored to a 405, with a roller retrofit conversion and I am using a GM V6 roller lifter retainer system. Here is the spec list, and the cam I had to choose from Comp now that Crane is done. At this point I picked a cam that was as close as I could but now would be the best time to pick something more aggressive is some of you feel this one will be too tame. I'm contemplating a thinner head gasket but I have to be careful about my static CR...it's already borderline on 91 / 93 and I might want to take this car on long drives. The car is not lightened much, maybe 3200 to 3300 lbs as a guess. I will have a TH2004R behind the engine, and the 3.08:1 rear end will be rebuilt using the same gears. I like torque and slow speed low RPM cruising, with occasional spirited runs. I don't play around in the upper RPMs much so high revving will be limited. Thoughts on this build? Proposed New Cam: http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=161&sb=2 SBC 400 Front Pad: T10140SA Casting: 3951511 Date: J12-72 Bore Size - 4.145" Piston Stroke - 3.75" Head Gasket Bore - 4.190" Compressed Gasket Thickness - 0.038" Chamber Volume - 64cc Dish Volume - 12.5cc Deck Clearance - 0.025" Estimated SCR - 10.15:1 405 ci (Bored +.020) 6.638 liters per cyl. 6633.85 CCs Retrofitted for V6 Hydraulic Roller Lifters 5.7" Rods 12.5cc Dish Speed Pro Pistons 64cc chamber/ 190cc Intake Runner Aluminum Vortec Heads .600" Springs Steam Holes Self Aligning Stamped Roller Rockers Vortec Air Gap Intake Manifold |
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Posted on: 2009/2/26 13:53
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BrianCunningham | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Senior Guru
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Why the V6 lifters?
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Posted on: 2009/2/26 18:00
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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dstaley | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Guru
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I know the lead cam engineer over at Reed Cams if you're serious.
Many companies don't have the greatest tech support guys answering the phone, as you're no doubt aware. But, if you get one of the genuinely experienced cam engineers like you'll find at Isky, Reed, and any of the others that haven't been commercialized you'll never get a bad choice. It just doesn't make sense to take a stab in the dark when there are professionals like this willing to do an assessment for free for nothing more than the price of a phone call. Honestly, the cam is really just a tuning device, like setting the timing- much like the software in a MPFI system. The real power is in making the engine breathe and in compression, the rest (cam, timing, etc) just creates the right mixture and 'lights the fire' for a given set of conditions, right? |
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Posted on: 2009/2/28 2:21
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dstaley | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
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Oh, by the way, I should have mentioned- send me a PM if you're interested and I'll give you the specs he picked on my cam. I'm very happy with the results.
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Posted on: 2009/2/28 2:26
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bogus | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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You may also want to ask cuisinartvette. He can help you get a custom grind...
Brian asked about the V6 lifter. After rereading your post, I assume you are using the V6 lifter retainers, but V8 lifters? At that point, is there a difference? I mean, the V6s share some internals with V8s, why not lifters? |
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Posted on: 2009/2/28 2:31
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
I am using V6 roller lifters and V8 retainers and spider bar. The Gen1 blocks have shorter lifter bores than the later roller blocks so the V8 lifters, being taller than V6 lifters, lift up too high out of the Gen1 lifter bores. This creates several problems...all solved by using shorter V6 lifters. The benefit is a cheaper roller conversion and the reliability of the stock retainer system, which I like better than the after market stuff. |
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Posted on: 2009/2/28 5:59
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Curtis1974 | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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My thoughts for you are to just get the damn thing together! I'm ready to turn some wrenches with you again..........
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Posted on: 2009/2/28 9:49
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Car's approximate birthday: June 29, 1974 Purchase date: 11/23/2003 Custom candy green - Vortec roller motor - TT2's - Custom sound system - Hooker side pipes - Babe magnet :thumbleft: |
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BrianCunningham | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Senior Guru
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cool learn something new everyday |
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Posted on: 2009/2/28 21:28
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_________________
Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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Yeah and actually, I made the mistake of originally choosing a stroker style small base circle roller cam because of the stroker rods I was using, and I found out the small base circle came DOES NOT work with the V6 roller lifter swap. The small base circle cam lets the lifters fall too far down in the lifter bores. Not only do they almost drop out completely from the retainers, but the oil feed holes that pressurize the lifters don't actually ever make it up into the bores fully so there would never be full pressure. Quite simply, V6 roller lifters can not be used with small base circle stroker cams in Gen1 small blocks retrofitted for the V6 lifters. Lesson learned. LOL. Now, the Comp cam I am looking at is a standard cam diameter so I can use it, but I will have to grind the rod bolt stud heads so they won't contact the cam. Once that's done everything should work together fine. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/1 17:47
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Bubs | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
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DB, don't you do anything the easy way? JK! Just wanted to say I'm glad I found where you went. I had trouble finding this site after you sent it to me.
Bubs |
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Posted on: 2009/3/2 20:37
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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No most things start out as easy but it seems I like too much of a challenge and I have to make things more difficult. LOL. I'm really glad you found this forum, again, and this time I hope you bookmarked it. LOL. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/3 0:28
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in2fun | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
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HI Durango. Just thought I'd say hi. BTW. I'm not much into the high RPMs. I like a lot of low end power and torque.
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Posted on: 2009/3/3 16:27
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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Hi Elio, great to see you here. This is a great place and the people are friendly. Start a thread and introduce yourself and show your car off. Lots of interested members. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/3 16:30
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in2fun | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
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Thanks DB. I just posted in the C3 Chat section with some pics.
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Posted on: 2009/3/3 17:05
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BeachBum | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Master Guru
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My only comment on your motor is that I think you have chosen the wrong cam for a low rpm motor as you have suggested you prefer.
A 405 with a dual plane intake and Vortec cylinder heads would definitely build better torque from off-idle to 4500 rpm with their 224/230 grind than the 236/242 cam shown. Just food for thought.... |
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Posted on: 2009/3/4 1:01
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_________________
863 cubic inches of C4 & C6 muscle C6 Corvette Z06 - Lemans Metallic Blue C4 Corvette 436 - Pure Black http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3933547 ... chevrolet-corvette/page-1 |
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
A 405 with a dual plane intake and Vortec cylinder heads would definitely build better torque from off-idle to 4500 rpm with their 224/230 grind than the 236/242 cam shown. Well I approached it like this. I prefer low RPM torque but I also don't want to limit myself to it. I want to have that HP if I need it. My thoughts on that cam were that the 405 is going to be a torque monster anyway...because that's what they do, and that cam would not only play to that trend but it would give me some room to explore if I change in my driving habits. Thanks so much for the insight. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/4 2:13
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BeachBum | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Master Guru
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nada
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Posted on: 2009/3/4 4:32
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Artsvettes | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Guru Newb
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I agree with Beachbum Also the 2004r trans will in no way like a 3.08 ratio. You will need 3.55 or higher. Try again |
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Posted on: 2009/3/5 21:24
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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Also the 2004r trans will in no way like a 3.08 ratio. You will need 3.55 or higher. Try again Why do you think the TH2004R won't like the 3.08 gears? The threads I read where people had that trans and 3.08 gears all said they liked it fine because it left them with a good low RPM at highway speeds but didn't kill the first gear for signal light playtime. I'm not concerned with track times...this car will probably never see a light tree. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/5 22:16
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Artsvettes | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Guru Newb
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It's not that I don't think the 3.08 will work well with the 200. I know from first hand experience. I didn't read it anywhere. Carfull what you read it may get you in trouble
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 1:04
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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See I don't get that statement. The guys posting about it had installed TH2004Rs in front of 3.08 gears, just like you did, so why would their advice be any less valid than yours when saying it would or would not work? You still didn't explain why you say the TH2004R would not work well with the 3.08 gears. What aspects did you not like? |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 1:32
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Artsvettes | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Guru Newb
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Do what you want. You asked for thoughts on your build.
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 2:19
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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You still didn't explain why you say the TH2004R would not work well with the 3.08 gears. What aspects did you not like? |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 2:48
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76vet | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Guru Newb
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Quote:
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 5:17
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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I agree too, and I will end up doing what I want, but he did cite the fact that he had done the same thing before as a reason not to do it or listen to what others posted, to my car, yet didn't cite an example...not an unreasonable request by any stretch, and left with somewhat of a snide remark and no examples. I value his opinion but I would certainly like to know what about the TH2004R and 3.08 gears he did not like that would make him suggest against it.
I could suggest to someone else they don't breath but I wouldn't expect them to take me seriously for no reason unless I told them I just farted. Just saying. LOL |
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 5:23
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BeachBum | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Master Guru
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good luck
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Posted on: 2009/3/6 20:24
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_________________
863 cubic inches of C4 & C6 muscle C6 Corvette Z06 - Lemans Metallic Blue C4 Corvette 436 - Pure Black http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3933547 ... chevrolet-corvette/page-1 |
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Little-Mouse | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Guru Newb
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Are you going to run fuel injection, my understanding narrow
lsa (higher overlap) has bad effects on fuel injection if thats truely the case you should go to a wider 112 LSA. I did not notice any mention of a .900 base circle, will you not need the .900 base circle with a 3.75 stroke. James |
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Posted on: 2009/3/25 18:11
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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James, no fuel injection right now but I am planning on dual side draft carbs. I actually started out with a small base circle cam, for strokers, but because of the lifters I needed a standard base circle cam. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/25 23:58
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Artsvettes | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Guru Newb
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DB Besides from my personal experience
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2006/01/01/hmn_feature9.html |
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Posted on: 2009/3/31 1:34
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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I'm still wondering what about the TH2004R and the 3.08:1 gears YOU did not like since it was from personal experience. I also wouldn't consider that to be very tall, and from what others who have done this have said it's a great middle ground giving you improved mileage at high speeds AND less loss for 1st gear. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/31 1:58
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BrianCunningham | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Senior Guru
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Ask PeteK if that 200 will even LIVE behind that 405. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/31 13:48
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_________________
Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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Durango_Boy | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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Of that I have no doubts. Before it's installed it will either be rebuilt by me or a local friend of mine who's professionally rebuilds them. I'll buy all the parts myself and he or I will do the work. I know of a few guys with 500+ HP engine in front of TH2004Rs and they are fine unless absolutely flogged like a rental car. |
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Posted on: 2009/3/31 20:58
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pr0zac | Re: Thoughts on my 405. | ||
Elite Guru
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i have had that cam in an 11:1 383 with vortec heads. it was a nice cam but i think that the duration and lobe separation will push your hp up the band where you don't want to be quote unquote. i had a 3000 stall and 4.57 gears so it found its way into the powerband quickly. but i would imagine a lower duration cam would work better. especially if you intend to use the 3.08's it would take it a while for the cam to come in.
i use to have 2.73's in my trans am and a hot cam with a 2300 stall. it seemed to drag its ass to come into the cam also. i know it would have loved better gears. i have a 230/236 in my trans am now with a 4k stall and 3.23 gears and before i was still using my old 2300 stall and on the 2-3 shift it would fall out of the cam and cars that i would be pulling away from would make the ground back up and once i got back into the cam it would start pulling off again if i didn't fall too far back. the new stall allows me to keep the rpms up and stay in the cam. all setups drove around fine. all these guys talk about just driving the car and not being concerned with high rpm performance yada yada yada. well if you arent going to run the car whats the point of stroking boring heads cam stickers whatever. you might as well leave it stock cause its going to drive the same or worse if you are just going to putt around. not doing gears is going to seriously effect the overall performance of the car if you aren't using a larger stall with a larger duration cam |
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Posted on: 2009/5/11 15:28
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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