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BrianCunningham F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
Senior Guru
Boston, MA for the most part :)
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http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives ... ash/1373-full.html#200342

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F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not

The Obama administration has taken a look and after production of 187 aircraft, "the administration proposes to terminate the F-22 Raptor program," and close the Raptor production line. The quote comes straight from the Terminations, Reductions, and Savings report offered up by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The Raptor program costs the United States about $3.5 billion per year, according to the OMB, and the proposal would halt production after 2009, when the current multi-year procurement contract ends. The OMB states that the 187 examples of the F-22 Raptor air superiority fighter, supported by the planned fleet growth of Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) to 2,443 aircraft, "will meet DOD's requirements to maintain air superiority." And, according to the OMB, the Department of Defense agrees. But while the F-22 has frequently been attacked for its expense it has rarely (if ever) been attacked for its demonstrated real-world abilities. The JSF is a different story, but does come with at least one distinct advantage.

Versions of the JSF are destined for sale en masse to foreign governments and as such, the JSF program is seen by some as vital to the U.S. recapitalizing tactical aircraft. With the GAO and Congressional budget office both questioning the affordability of continuing the F-22 program while simultaneously pursuing the larger JSF procurement, that factor may be critical. Still, the JSF is still a project in development and as such its cost figures are still somewhat malleable -- they may grow larger. With the proposal to cut the F-22 on the books, critics and proponents of both aircraft may find new urgency in their voices. We'll be listening.
Posted on: 2009/5/11 15:07
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CSS996 Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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Central PA
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Why don't we halt ALL fighter production and just plant flowers instead?
Posted on: 2009/5/11 15:10
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DaleD Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
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Quote:

CSS996 wrote:
Why don't we halt ALL fighter production and just plant flowers instead?


The scary thing is, there are a significant number of Americans who think exactly that way.
Posted on: 2009/5/11 17:21
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BrianCunningham Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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He might need them in Afghanistan

He's pulling out of Iraq, but getting more involved there.
Posted on: 2009/5/11 17:29
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1Fast04Vert Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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The hills of N. Georgia
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Quote:

BrianCunningham wrote:
He might need them in Afghanistan

He's pulling out of Iraq, but getting more involved there.


He doesn't need them there either. Bad guys live in caves and don't have fighter aircraft. The F-15E, A-10, and a few F-16s are all we need over there. But the unmanned aircraft are awesome, cheaper, effective, and a lot safer and doing a good job.
Posted on: 2009/5/11 18:14
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TommyT-Bone Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
Chair-man of the bored
Homestead USA
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We don't need modern day weaponry if we use modern day diplomacy. Maybe if we say "Please stop the violence and human rights offenses" the bands of roving subversives/insurgents inducing all this chaos will think twice about it. After all .......... we did say "Please".
Posted on: 2009/5/11 18:36
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Matatk Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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SW Chicago Burbs
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Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:
We don't need modern day weaponry if we use modern day diplomacy. Maybe if we say "Please stop the violence and human rights offenses" the bands of roving subversives/insurgents inducing all this chaos will think twice about it. After all .......... we did say "Please".


And make sure you bow while saying it.

Matthew
Posted on: 2009/5/12 0:51
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Dads90 Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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Pearland, Tx
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Oh great, lets just sell them to some other country, who will sell it to another country to use against us. Viscous cycle.
Posted on: 2009/5/12 4:04
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bogus Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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San Pedro, CA
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I have always wondered why we needed 18 different aircraft to do the same basic mission.

The F22 is a cool plane, but the JSF does it and does it more efficiently. Also, with only one fighter to maintain, it means more cost effective management of the plane. Think of the Southwest Airlines model - an entire fleet of 737s.

As technology improves, the need for all this transitional technology becomes moot. It IS time for a single air superiority fighter, that is the JSF.

At the same time, the JSF is 20 years ahead - hell 30 years - of whatever any potential enemy, including the Chinese, can muster.

Top that off with the BEST pilot training in the world and you can see we have air superiority. Period.

I am a huge fan of automated technologies. Obviously, there are times when putting man and machine into harms way is necessary, but when you can use such technology, I am all for it. I guess it's about practical applications and not expenses for the sake of expenses. Call it budget restraint. It's something the defense department hasn't learned and really needs to.

The sad reality is that no matter what happens in this world, there will be a need for a strong military. Once the terrorists are dealt with - hell, before that - a new enemy will reveal itself. It's a given.

Once the USSR collapsed, it revealed our next enemy...

In as much as when the kings of Europe fell after WWII. It took a long time for the enemies to form, but they did. Nature abhors a vacuum.

I wish everyone else could see this.
Posted on: 2009/5/12 4:35
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JrRifleCoach Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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Quote:

bogus wrote:

Once the USSR collapsed, it revealed our next enemy...



The enemy within?
Posted on: 2009/5/12 5:08
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Epimax Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
Elite Guru
Wilmington, NC
1814 Posts
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2008/12/30 13:16



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Quote:

Matatk wrote:
Quote:

TommyT-Bone wrote:
We don't need modern day weaponry if we use modern day diplomacy. Maybe if we say "Please stop the violence and human rights offenses" the bands of roving subversives/insurgents inducing all this chaos will think twice about it. After all .......... we did say "Please".


And make sure you bow while saying it.

Matthew


Oh yes, that's a must....bow down and beg like a scolded dog....
Posted on: 2009/5/12 10:22
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bogus Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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Quote:

JrRifleCoach wrote:
Quote:

bogus wrote:

Once the USSR collapsed, it revealed our next enemy...



The enemy within?


It wasn't attractive when McCarthy was around, it isn't attractive today. In reality, it is paranoia.

Paranoia is crippling.
Posted on: 2009/5/13 5:48
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Matatk Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
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Quote:

bogus wrote:


It wasn't attractive when McCarthy was around, it isn't attractive today. In reality, it is paranoia.

Paranoia is crippling.


Some paranoia is healthy. Can't go around thinking everything is tofu burgers and happy bunnies. There are bad people in the world and we do have to protect ourselves.

Matthew
Posted on: 2009/5/13 11:33
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bogus Re: F-22 On Chopping Block, Joint Strike Fighter Not
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
San Pedro, CA
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Quote:

Matatk wrote:
Quote:

bogus wrote:


It wasn't attractive when McCarthy was around, it isn't attractive today. In reality, it is paranoia.

Paranoia is crippling.


Some paranoia is healthy. Can't go around thinking everything is tofu burgers and happy bunnies. There are bad people in the world and we do have to protect ourselves.

Matthew


Agreed, but paranoia isn't the right word nor emotion. It's more like concern or care.

Paranoia is a form of fear and once it festers, we get people like Joe McCarthy looking for evil at every turn.
Posted on: 2009/5/13 14:41
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