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| corvetteronw | Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Since I am due to retire in a couple of years I am trying to get out of debt and for sure not trying to rack up any more.
I got this 91 Steel Blue Metallic 91 coupe in December. The pics from the seller looked like they were taken in bright sunlight as the color was kinda washed out. I was somewhat let down when I saw it in person. The color was quite faded. The mirrors were sunburned to a flat gray as was the tail section. The nose was too but it also suffered from the bra that had been on it beating it to death. I have buffed out the tail section so it is quite shiny and repainted the mirrors with matching Duplicolor rattle can paint. I have sanded off the paint from the nose section and am in the process of painting it now. The first coat turned out kind of dark. So here I sit with a car of many colors. The nose looks like it is going to turn out darker than the body. The body from the nose back to the rear clip is shiny but faded. I buffed it out and it looks real good. The rear clip is shiny but much, much lighter than the body. I found a recent book with some great "home garage" painting tips. I already have the compressor and I just picked up a Harbor Freight gun. I am shopping around for paint and supplies. Looks like I can get enough of the base coat/clear coat and all the supplies in a kit for around $300 online. In the next couple of days I will stop by the local Finishmaster shop to see what they charge. Probably more than the online deals but at least I will have someone to go to for advice when I screw up. I just cannot afford to pay thousands of dollars to get it repainted right now. I did get a hell of a good deal on an original owner car that has all the receipts for the work that was done over the years. I am still not unhappy with the car but I think I am going to try and paint it myself. I will post the steps and take plenty of pics along the way for those of you who might think of trying it. Basically I am going to do a "scuff and squirt". The only thing I am removing are the front license plate cover, tail light lenses and the emblems. The concept is to not make a color change. Do some spot putty repair to a few nicks. Sand those smooth and spray a high fill primer on these spots. Then rough it up with a wet sanding of the entire body by hand. Tape and mask carefully. Use wax and silicone remover before and after the sanding. Tack it off good. Spray a base coat. Let it dry and apply the clear coat. Buff it out. Sit back and admire the work (hopefully). I can hire a college student that I know who works at a local Pontiac, Buick, GMC dealer where his Dad is a buyer. His Dad says he is the best "wheel man" in town. Probably give him a hundred dead presidents for his trouble. I will post up as I go along with before, during and after pics. Damn but I hate living on a budget. :tongue: |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 6:12
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| biggrizzly | Re: Paint | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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Ron, your not the only one living on a budget. It has taken me years to accomplish on my car what others have done in months. I have seen some nice home paint jobs before and some pretty horrific ones too. I think that if you take your time, do your homework, and prepare the car well in advance you should be pretty happy with the results. If no.. you an do it over. LOL
Good Luck and post photos as you progress |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 12:20
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| flyboy | Re: Paint | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Good Luck! The side mirrors almost have to come off. I removed mine and it's not all that difficult. Following the instructions in the FSM really helped.
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 13:22
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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| Matatk | Re: Paint | ||
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Good luck. Looking forward to seeing the progress pics. It does seem that most people remove the bumpers, though. Just a thought.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 13:36
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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Good for you, Ron.
I've been doing my own paint, fibrglass work, etc. for ever. I have a few suggestions, if you want them on the home spray booth, etc. I've used a HF HPLV gun, about 3 years ago and wasn't real happy with it. It may have been that particular gun. But, I'd suggest that you shoot some tests with it with something inexpensive, like the Duplicolor stuff. The only other thing, I've done is to take a fully prepped, primered/blocked car to a local shop to have the base/clear sprayed. Only because I like having those coats cured (baked). You can end up with a very nice job out of your garage. One note on the wax & silcon remover, if you have any slight cracks or anything that's down to the glass, don't use it. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 15:22
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| bogus | Re: Paint | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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can you bake SMC?
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 16:58
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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^^The baking process is not as hot as you think.
Blue Metallic. The Metallic has oxidized and I'm not an expert but I'd worry about painting over it. The Primer under it would be perfectly acceptable to paint on. Adhesion issues.....check out Organo Silanes adhesion primers....a mechanical bond is what you are working with, and Oragano Silanes can assist that. The old school paint and body guys try to scuff up the surface more to increase the surface area in order to gain adhesion...but you can achieve the same thing with a good chemical primer.....all the paint stores will know what your asking for but most paint and body folks resist this "chemical" solution. Have fun with the following http://www.aaparkerconsulting.com/silanes_techpaper-parker.pdf What he is saying mostly is that Hydrolysis of the Silane is important....and it "dies" after 36 hours or so. So you have to add the silane to the deionized water and iso-alcohol......mix.....apply........and paint all within a 36 hour period. And it is just a mixture of clear watery liquid....smeared or sprayed on and allowed to dry (few minutes) |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 17:06
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yes. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 17:25
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| corvetteronw | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
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Holy farking shite! That article is very technical.
Thanks, but I will just stick with the old school ways. I will do my best. If I "F" it up I can always sand it down and have the local mom and pop shop do it next year. I am not going to take off mirrors and bumpers as I really want to spend some time driving it this summer. I have had Corvettes in the past that I was unable to drive because of being in the middle of a project. The car then becomes a pain in the arse and it is too easy to let it sit there as other things come up. I just need to wait until the weather warms up to a consistent 50 degrees or higher to get started. Hopefully by late April. Here is a link to the book I am using: http://www.cartechbooks.com/vstore/sh ... 6&Product_ID=2564&CATID=3 Thanks BillH. I will take your advice on the wax/silicone remover and do the small repairs first. I am also going to rely heavily on my Finishmaster sales rep. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 18:08
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A VETERAN IS SOMEONE WHO AT ONE POINT WROTE A BLANK CHECK MADE PAYABLE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR AN AMOUNT OF UP TO AND INCLUDING THEIR LIFE. |
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| corvetteronw | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
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I found out from reading the above-mentioned book that my Coleman air compressor will not support a HVLP gun. The specs on my unit says it will support the siphon gun's requirements. I got an industrial gun from Harbor Freight for under $30. They had cheaper ones but this one fits the bill.
So far I have learned not to use newspaper and hardware store tape to mask it off. Also to use name=brand sand paper and to cover the stuff in the garage with plastic sheets to avoid having everything turn blue! |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 18:14
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A VETERAN IS SOMEONE WHO AT ONE POINT WROTE A BLANK CHECK MADE PAYABLE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR AN AMOUNT OF UP TO AND INCLUDING THEIR LIFE. |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Paint | ||
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Listen, that article make it "easier" as.....you can use 800-1000 grit wet sand paper to just "get through" the color and expose the primer.
here is the trouble.....you have such a smooth finish that you run into adhesion troubles. That is why the old school way is to rough it up....well once you rough....then you have to smooth. If you aren't doing any body work in an area and you don't want to do anything else other than take off the old oxidation and re-paint.......save yourself But your right, that whole thing is highly technical. I have years of surface prep and adhesion experience so this comes naturally to me.....but there is a lot of "core competency" issues that need to be addressed first. Good luck on your project. Remember laying the paint is important, but rubbing it out afterward is almost more important. When you are done painting, you'll have orange peel and fish eyes all over.....a quick light wet sand and buff will fix that right up. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 18:28
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| pianoguy | Re: Paint | ||
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Best of luck, Ron - will be looking forward to seeing how you progress!
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 21:49
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| bogus | Re: Paint | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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IIRC, baking is at about 100F-135F or so.
Am I on target? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/14 22:39
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| corvetteronw | Re: Paint | ||
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Andy. If I do this right and it comes out OK I could swing by and we could re-do your peeling green machine when my wife and I go visit her sister in Torrance.
I'm sure your neighbors would love to hear the compressor running and smell the paint fumes!  |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 4:30
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| anesthes | Re: Paint | ||
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Master Guru
 
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Yes. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 11:58
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| anesthes | Re: Paint | ||
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I did mine over a few years ago (2007). Was a bit more challenging, because I did the 91+ bumper swap at the same time, plus I had some cracks I had to fix. A few crappy paint jobs to remove, etc. Took a lot of it down to the SMC, sprayed with a 2k primer/sealer.
http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/projects/newpaint/ Came out OK. C4's are kind of a pain in the ass to paint. I had some issues with blisters the first time I shot it, and had to redo it. Found the trick to success was baking the crap out of it before painting, to ensure any areas that were fixed with SMC filler were dry. Once you shoot it with paint, any liquid left in the SMC filler will turn to gas in the hot sun and has nowhere to go. The fun stuff: http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/projects/sanding/ Was quite a challenge. Most of the fiberglass work I've done was on boats. SMC is like a crappy version of fiberglass. It's like fiberglass powder glued together. Been painting/bodywork since mid 90s. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 12:05
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'79 Z28. 412 CID, NP 833 transmission, 3.73 10.5" rear end. |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Paint | ||
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Quote:
That makes a lot of sense. It's good that you point that out to everyone. I've been in Vacuum coating for years and outgassing is a constant battle. What you describe is an everyday issue for anyone that deals in vacuum Let me ask you this, The average Joe has no ovens to bake (or out-gas)an entire car. The second option without an oven is time......would you have any idea how much time is required for the stuff to out-gas over a period of time....sitting in the sun? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 15:39
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| anesthes | Re: Paint | ||
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Master Guru
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That is a good question. The first time we painted it we shot it in the spring, and it sat on my lift for a month. Rolled it outside one day, and after 4 hours in the sun had some blisters on the hood! Every spot I fixed with SMC filler had a blister (thank god I took pictures before priming it so I knew where the spots were). So I had to strip all the paint off again, the primer, back down to what it was previously to re shoot it with paint. Before doing that, we rolled it into the booth and baked it. Few more blisters came out. Then we rolled it out, sanded, etc, baked again, sanded, sprayed. I don't know how to answer the question, but given the opportunity, I'd leave the sanded and SMC repaired car out in the sun for a few days and hope it fully fully fully cures. What a nightmare the process was. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 18:25
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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On my "tools I want for my shop" list is a medium wave quartz curing lamp to take care of stuff like this and to "bake" panels. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 19:17
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| Dale1990 | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
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We used a quite a bit of filler on the 86 when we repainted it - removing a body kit. We didn't have it in the sun nor did we bake it and we never had any paint bubbles. Interesting.
EDIT: It probably did sit a day or three in the garage between filling and priming. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 21:26
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86 Coupe: SR 383 90 Convertible: Stock L98 06 Z06: Stock LS7 |
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| corvetteronw | Re: Paint | ||
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I just saw your Sea Foam YouTube post that someone put on CF. I have a Rick Anthony Motorsports T shirt (wearing it today). He is one of the good guys. Very impressive video. I'll bet my neighbors would just love the smoke if I tried that! |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 22:17
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A VETERAN IS SOMEONE WHO AT ONE POINT WROTE A BLANK CHECK MADE PAYABLE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR AN AMOUNT OF UP TO AND INCLUDING THEIR LIFE. |
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| Matatk | Re: Paint | ||
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This is completely off topic, but since you brought it up  Rick is one of my closest friends. I'm the best man in his wedding in May. As far as the smoke, there wasn't as much as I thought. I've seen others that were much worse. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 22:40
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Stay on topic or we'll report you to a moderator.  |
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Posted on: 2010/3/15 23:09
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| bogus | Re: Paint | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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yea, what bill said.
so there. I donno about DIY painting... LA is sooooo dusty... |
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Posted on: 2010/3/16 5:11
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Ain't it fun linin' in the sand? I wash the black rose, back it into the garage, a half hour later, it's dusty again. Most of the racercar stuff I've painted in the garage has come out good dust wise. I do the clear plastic "booth" and spray it down a bit with water. I also have the floor wet during the painting. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/16 14:30
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| bogus | Re: Paint | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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and my garage is a mess... no space for a plastic paint space, damnit.
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Posted on: 2010/3/16 14:51
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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Ha, I'd make a bet that mine's worse than yours but I'm too chicken to post pics. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/16 14:55
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| screamin_conure | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
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Hey Ron, good luck! Just think of the satisfaction you'll get out of telling people you painted it yourself! I'm sure it'll be beautiful!
By the way, for what it's worth, I found a Sherwin-Williams automotive finishes store near my home and picked up a small supply of their Ultimate 7000 urethane in my car's color to do some touch-up work with a hobby airbrush. It's a pretty nice little shop and the prices don't seem to be too out of line. I just painted my license plate filler with it and it's not too shabby! Pretty good match and nice even finish. Ron |
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Posted on: 2010/3/16 20:59
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| corvetteronw | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
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Thanks everyone. I just priced the paint and related reducer, adhesion promoter, clear coat etc at FinishMaster. It is more than twice the price of what I can get on line.
The Harbor Freight gun I bought also has too large of a nozzle. This snit is not easy to figure out.  |
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Posted on: 2010/3/17 4:55
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A VETERAN IS SOMEONE WHO AT ONE POINT WROTE A BLANK CHECK MADE PAYABLE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR AN AMOUNT OF UP TO AND INCLUDING THEIR LIFE. |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
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Screamin', I stopped at a Sherwin Williams as well and got a Price of ~$300 for everything I needed. I didn't buy then....
Ron, Where did you go and what price did you get?? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/17 15:10
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| corvetteronw | Re: Paint | ||
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www.tcpglobal.com has a kit for their best base/clear metallic of about $370. This compared to $750+ at the local FinishMaster store (it did include adhesion promoter which was not in the tcpglobal package).
I will try to find a local Sherwin Williams. My air compressor which is a 5hp, 20 Gal Coleman oilless unit sprays 6.5 SCFM @40psi and 5.5 SCFM @90psi. Looks like most HVLP guns require more than that. Still searching for the right combination. Oh well, this will make a nice war story some day. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/18 4:49
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A VETERAN IS SOMEONE WHO AT ONE POINT WROTE A BLANK CHECK MADE PAYABLE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR AN AMOUNT OF UP TO AND INCLUDING THEIR LIFE. |
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| jhammons01 | Re: Paint | ||
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Remember, you can link two small compressors together for a total SCFM. So if your friend has a small one, you can borrow it for a day, or buy a cheap Harbor Freight one and then sell it afterward.
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Posted on: 2010/3/18 14:10
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Yep, spray guns are in the "continuous use" catagory like an air sander. But, your 5 horse will put out enough air until the tank runs down and the compressor kicks on. The compressor ratings are when the compressor is running. I've done a boatload with my 2horse, 12 gal tank. You just have to wait on the compressor. I can usually get a panel done before the compressor kicks in. It's not that big of a deal. If you're going to keep the HF, use it to see how long you can shoot before the compressor comes on. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/18 14:48
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| corvetteronw | Re: Paint | ||
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Senior Guru
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I found a PPG jobber that gave me a "shop" discount. I can get everything I need for $502.82.
Breakdown: Gallon urethane clear 2.1 voc 4+1 $87.31 Quart overall hardener for above $66.20 Quart custom mix Deltron 2000 BC $91.10 Gallon medium temperature reducer $47.55 6% tax for the State of Michigan $28.46 I just picked up a used Sears (Binks?) gun for $45 off Craigslist so now I have all my supplies. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/23 15:21
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A VETERAN IS SOMEONE WHO AT ONE POINT WROTE A BLANK CHECK MADE PAYABLE TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR AN AMOUNT OF UP TO AND INCLUDING THEIR LIFE. |
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| anesthes | Re: Paint | ||
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Master Guru
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What are you using for paints ? I'm shopping for paint supplies. I want something that shoots easy, doesn't require a scientist to mix it between coats, and isn't $200 a gallon. I was looking at the summit stuff lately. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2010/3/23 16:13
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Excellent. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/23 16:41
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Funny you would mention that Joe, I was in the Summit store yesterday looking at that paint on their shelf, almost bought a quart just for the hell of it. For the racecars, I've been sticking to PPG Deltron cause it's been very chip resistant, but pricy. My next shoot will probably be Summit or Kirker, guys on some forums have had good things to say about Kirker but I've no experience with them. And I can walk n the door and pick up Summit. Note: Summit's latest tool catalog now has both single stage ( from $82/gal) and 2 stage (from $140). I'll probably try a single stage with clearcoat next. Clearcoat makes for easier cleanup of the tire marks & oil at the track. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/23 16:55
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| anesthes | Re: Paint | ||
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Master Guru
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The single stage Kirker seems pretty cheap. Wonder how the coverage is. Either way, I'll be shooting clear over it. One might argue that a traditional bc/cc is better since I'll be performing the same amount of work shooting the clear. I guess, price is really the big difference. I can't bring myself to pay $200 per gallon of paint. The summit line has different colors for the single stage vs 2 stage paint.. I kind of like the 'candy apple red' and the 'performance yellow' on the single stage, although I imagine unless the car was absolutely perfectly straight, the yellow would hide better than the red. I'll sand and guide coat the primer/sealer, but I'm not going to go crazy replacing sheet metal that isn't rusty. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2010/3/24 0:23
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yea, PPG, R&M etc. are getting so expensive. If you want to get really sick, price the House of Color stuff. Yea, definately clearcoat. And there's a clearcoat technique that adds a bunch of depth to the paint that I've been wanting to try. It takes a couple extra coats of clear. You mix some of the basecoat with the clear in the first couple of coats. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/24 1:07
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| bogus | Re: Paint | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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that's basically the three stage.
Black Rose is a three stage... base, tinted clear and clear. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/25 2:13
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| BillH | Re: Paint | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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And a gorgeous color too.  |
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Posted on: 2010/3/25 2:28
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