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| JeffK | Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Been messing with these #@$#&!!@@$%^)(*&^! Rockers for the last 3-4 weeks now.
I'm not going to publish who I bought them from but they are an off brand but I read good things about the supplier on TGO so I figured I'd give them a shot. I have had a tick since I got the car back together but since I put the base tune in from Mick it's been running great. I drove it for a total of approx 300 miles so far and the tick has not gotten better or worse. Tonight I decided to pop the VC and readjust the valves on the drivers side since I could tell that was where the tick was coming from. #5 exhaust rocker was sloppy side to side. Movement is between 1/8 & 3/16". I am going to call the supplier tomorrow and see what they want to do. I am thinking that I just need to see about getting all my money back and buying a set of Cranes. I made a quick vid of me moving it with my hand but my crackberry and photobucket are at war tonight. Anyway, I needed to vent Jeff |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 1:00
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| bogus | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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That sucks. I hope you find satisfaction from the mfg.
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 1:07
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| Steve40th | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Adjustment with RR's is critical, especially with COMP CAMS lifters. But, what kind of lock down nut do these have? Are they like factory, or a jam nut.
Also, what camshaft are you running? Sometimes the springs with rollers cause ticking. Mine ticks all the time, with Beehive 918s, 555 lift cam, fast ramps and Crower SS 1.6 Enduro II roller rockers. Mine is 1/4 turn past zero lash, cold with GM lifters. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 6:22
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Stock cam. LT4 springs. Polylock nuts on the rockers. I had them at 1/2 turn past zero. I'm ok with a little noise but this is beyond that.
Here's the video... |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 11:14
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| flyboy | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Is that play in the trunnion? Not a good thing, I think.
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 11:36
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I'm worried about the quality of the rest of them now. I'm going to call the supplier today and see if I can get a full refund. I doubt it but I'm going to try. Then I'll get a set of Cranes or Scorpions.
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 11:44
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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There's a speed shop near work that has Proform rockers in stock. Any input on the quality of them?
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 13:10
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| rklessdriver | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Sorry to be the one to tell you - but in the hierarchy of rocker arms - Proform is JUNK. If your going to buy stud mount rockers I recommend Scorpion or Crane. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 13:44
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| mseven | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Some side to side is normal. I would also be inspecting lifters, if the rocker is loosing adjustment, and also check pushrods for straighness (and if hitting the guide plates). If you take any of the rockers (cold) and the valves are completely closed there will be some side to side. If there isn,t any, than the adjustment maybe too tight.
I'd steer away from to much of a budget rocker. Scorps may have the better rep for a budget rocker. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 13:48
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I thought maybe it was a lifter too Mick so I switched it from #5 exhaust to #3 intake just to double check. I even switched the lock nut just in case the threads were bad...still the same.
I'm fine with a little side to side wiggle but you can hear the clicking when I wiggle it. Imagine that at idle rpms. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 14:37
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I'm thinking of just ordering the Scorpions from Summit for $239 narrow body. I don't really have to have narrow but it would be nice to have the extra clearance.
Or I could get the Summit racing regular bodies for $199 The speed shop here could get me Crane Golds for $280 + tax. TOO many options. I don't think the supplier of the ones that I have will do much for me since I've had them 4 months. I haven't been able to get through to them yet. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 16:17
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| smooth | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I agree with you on your expectations from the mfg Jeff. Probably had'em too long. If you thought it might be the springs, I'd saywhy not do the screwdriver in the spring test while its running, but ,I'm sure you thought of that.If all that movement is on the trunion, I'd trash them w/o driving another mile. If the bearing has lost a roller or two, it could be in your oil!!!! Change the oil and filter it to look for trash.....and pray. As for a new set, save up the extra $40 and get the Cranes...pretty much can't go wrong...But I know what its like on a tight budget! Good Luck Jeff! |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 16:56
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Alan 2001 Navy Blue Metallic Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. Dr.Seuss |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Springs are brand new GMPP LT4's
Car is sitting in the garage. Putting more miles on my leased car.  I guess I will go with the Comps. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/7 17:51
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Picked up the Comps today...ouch that hurt $$.
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Posted on: 2011/4/8 17:02
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Been on hold for over 10 minutes waiting for one of the technicians at original place to get to the phone. Dozed off at one point.
I sent them an email on Wednesday describing the problem that I'm having. Here's the response. Hi Jeff, I greatly apologize that you are having issues with them. It would probably be best to give our technician ---- a call on this so he can assist directly. They are covered under a 5 year warranty so we could assist with that over the phone as well if needed. Thanks! My boss finally asked me who the hell had me on perma-hold so I hung up. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/8 19:56
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| WW7 | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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If you can get a new set from them under warranty, put them on ebay and get rid of them. At least you can recoup some of your money....WW
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Posted on: 2011/4/8 21:10
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I agree. As far as buying the more expensive comps...yeah, it hits the pocketbook hard, but I've learned not to skimp out on certain parts. Costs more to replace them in the long run. There are even parts now on my car that in 20/20 hindsight I wish I hadn't gone the less expensive route on. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2011/4/9 2:02
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I really hesitated to buy these rockers initially but I figured that if they were that bad there would be stuff all over about not buying them. OH well, live and learn.
After sitting on hold for 20 minutes yesterday waiting for the technician I ended up sending them an email telling them that I had held that long and asked for them to have one of the technicians call me. I know that they are open til 8pm...no call yet. Maybe I could make 16 gold keychains? As far as reselling them... I don't know if I want to put these off on someone else. I'll have to see what happens. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/9 12:56
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Got the Comp's in today. Lashed them all to 1/2 turn past 0. No more funny noises. I haven't driven it yet since I have a ton of homework but maybe later.
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Posted on: 2011/4/10 23:38
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Good to hear. What's the status from the original company/vendor?
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Posted on: 2011/4/10 23:45
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Nothing from the other vendor...
I think I should have gone 0 + 3/4 turn on the Comps..still a light tick. Didn't show up until I got it hot. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/11 11:46
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Well Mick was right, it seems that the side to side movement I was thinking was an issue is also there with the comps.
I gave them another 1/4 turn tonight and there's still some sort of ticking. I'm at the end of my rope with this and I'm just going to drive it and see how it goes. Maybe it will blow up and I'll have a good reason to rebuild. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/12 1:10
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| flyboy | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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If it's any consolation, I have some kind of a small tick coming from the vicinity of #6. Looked into it, could find nothing. I've read so much about roller lifters/rockers and noise, I have just pushed it out of my mind.
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Posted on: 2011/4/12 1:52
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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That's kind of where I'm at too Joe. At this point its either lifters or something else expensive.
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Posted on: 2011/4/12 2:55
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Drove the Vette to work today. While going to pick up lunch I decided that I can not leave this issue alone. It is a real pronounced clatter at RPM. I am afraid that it is going to ruin the new rockers and I don't have that kind of $$ to flush.
Going to try running it with the VC off to make sure that the rockers are getting oil. If they're not then I suspect they might already be toast. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/12 19:50
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| flyboy | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Good luck, and on the possibility that a rocker is making contact with the valve cover or some kind of pushrod/guide plate issue. Are those stamped valve covers that could possibly be transmitting that much more sound?
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Posted on: 2011/4/12 20:36
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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That is a possibility but once it's hot it sounds very destructive. I know it's not right and I can't leave it like that.
Really wishing that I had left it alone now.  |
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Posted on: 2011/4/12 22:04
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| pr0zac | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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damn.. if you were a little closer i would drive up. let me see how this week goes. maybe we can work something out on the weekend.
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Posted on: 2011/4/13 0:18
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I can't ask you to do that. It's like a 4 hour ride man and I can't drive this POS that far.
I'm thinking I'm going to try the other method that JAKE always preached. Maybe by doing it with the timing mark I'm getting it wrong. Skip to 4 second mark and you can hear it. Of course on there it sounds like a rod knock. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/13 0:55
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I can hear it, but I don't know what to say. Have you tried adjusting them while running?
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Posted on: 2011/4/13 3:02
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I haven't tried that yet. I can't imagine the mess. I'm going to try popping the vc's to see if they're oiling good while running and go from there. I don't have school tomorrow night so I'm going to mess with then. Either I'm an idiot or this is more complicated than I thought.
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Posted on: 2011/4/13 3:19
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I'm in the garage now with drivers VC off. I tried the engine running technique. When the rockers are loose and clacking the oil squirts out good. When I set them to half a turn it almost stops. Is that right? Also when it turn them that half a turn it sort of stumbles which I assume is because of the change even though I turn it really slow.
Help! |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 0:03
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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A trickle of oil should be fine, it will spray more when the motor revs. I have read roller rockers have a tab that diverts the oil down but can't confirm that. It shouldn't spray too much.
As far as the tightening, it's been over 10 years since I did it that way. I read back off until they clack, slowly tighten until no noise, then 1/2 turn. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 1:38
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Half a turn from zero lash should be good. Roller rockers should have a "light snick" sound and they should all have the same pitch.... so when the engine is running at idle it sounds like a big sewing machine running. Snick,snick,nick,nick,nick,nick,nick,nick,nick.... Different rockers sound differently. The Comp steel rockers have a slightly different pitch of sound than Alum rockers will. When you adjust them with the engine idling you want to tighten them until the clattering stops and then stop. I hope my description of sounds makes sense. I know what it sounds like - but "light snick" that's the best I can do as far as then written word... The reason the engine changes idle speed (or hickups) is because you are changing the duration of the cam for a split second before the lifter bleeds down enough to correct the lash.... if you go too far you will hang the valve off the seat and start skipping/running on 7cyls... That is why you should stop as soon as it get's quiet... you can play with it a lil bit (say a 1/4 to 1/2 turn more) to see if it gets any quieter - but if it dosen't I would not recommend you go any further than that for fear of bottoming the lifter out and maybe bending a valve. Also in your last video I hear what appears to be a distinct exhaust leak. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 2:01
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Ha-ha, I think there is an exhaust leak now too..
Anyway, all I got from doing the adjusting with it running is a severe brush burn from the belt. My fault for not remembering that it's there. I started doing it the way that Jake used to preach. Watch this rocker and when it starts to open adjust the intake..not 100% correct but I'm tired and pissed. I got the drivers side all lashed. I noticed that the #5 exhuast rocker did not have very much resistance. Even with it lashed I can take my thumb and push it down about 1/8" on the pushrod side. It will spring back up when I let go so there's no doubt that it is in the pocket of the lifter. So, I think I'm going to have to tear the whole intake off again to swap out lifters...@!#%&*^%$ Can I swap out the stock lifters for LS7's without changing the cam? Thanks, Jeff |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 2:16
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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If that's what Will says, that's what I'd do. As I said, I haven't used that method in over 10 years, and it was just once at that time. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 2:25
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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No need to replace the cam. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 2:26
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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PS - isn't this fun
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 2:28
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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I forgot to mention, with the RRs and new lifters to be installed, might be a good idea to invest in an adjustable pushrod length checker to be on the safe side. Joe (flyboy) can give you more info.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 2:32
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Fun? Not anymore. It was the first...even the second time I took the intake off.
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 2:42
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| rklessdriver | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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It's easier for regular people to understand because it's sometimes difficult to grasp the concept of "zero lash" which is important when adjusting hyd lifters... doing it when the engine running it is easy to hear the difference in the lifter noise and the only downside is it can be messy. I prefer the "exhaust open, intake close" method of adjusting valves personally but it takes some practice to really understand what your doing. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 3:12
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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All that the slack in the lifter tells me is that it's bled down all the way... that could be because you had it too tight the first time around or it likely bled down while you were turning the motor over adjusting the others. True it could be a bad lifter or damaged from being adjusted too tight but that is pretty rare. Adjust the other side, Button it up, drive it and give it a chance to pump back up before you go tearing the top end back apart. BTW the Exhaust Open/Intake Closed method of valve adjustement is easy to remember. First remember that you only do one cyl (2 valves) at a time. 1. Rotate the engine over until the exhaust valve just starts to open - STOP. 2. Adjust the intake rocker. 3. Rotate the engine over until the intake valve you just adjusted opens then starts to close - STOP. 4. Adjust the exhaust rocker. 5. Move on to the next cyl and repeat. Take it easy and try not to let things get to you. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 3:30
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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That's the method I was using. I like it other than killing myself turning the engine over by hand.
All the others on that side are still firm. I had a tick before all of this that I thought was coming from the messed up sparkplug threads on #8. That was one of the main reasons for pulling the heads. Maybe it was this lifter all along? I think that I am going to lay the valve cover back on, fire it up for a few minutes and then check that rocker again to see if it still does it. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 3:49
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| rklessdriver | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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One of these will make turning the motor over really easy. http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/weba ... 07-P_N3412_T%7CGRP2083___ You can just "bump" the motor over. I use a similar one all the time when I have to adjust valves in the car. Besides it's not good practice to turn the engine over using the balancer bolt... espc with the plugs in. The rest sounds like a good plan. Give it a little run time and see if it's getting oil. If it's getting oil but still noisey - then with the engine running play with the pre load a little... if you can't get it to quiet down... you know you got to replace it. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 12:25
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Found a post on CF where the member ran into exact same issue.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-te ... kers-on-my-91-c4-l98.html |
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Posted on: 2011/4/14 22:23
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Ok, I got out of class a little early tonight.
I laid the VC back on and fired it up. Forgot that I still had #1 sparkplug out. Interesting noise it makes with a plug missing. Anyway, It ran for about 45 seconds before I shut it off. All of the rockers were rock solid except my suspect one. Damn, I wanted it to heal itself. I assume that would have been enough time for it to pump up. Will? Anyone? Thanks guys! You are as always a great help to us less wisened. Jeff |
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Posted on: 2011/4/15 1:14
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| Matatk | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Jeff, don't take this wrong, but I don't think there is a fairy tale answer. If it were my car I'd replace the lifters. But that's if it were my car.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2011/4/15 2:16
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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DREAMKILLER!  I wasn't really expecting it to fix itself. Going to pick up new lifters today. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/15 11:07
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| dan0617 | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Senior Guru
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Yes it should have pumped up a few seconds after the engine fired up. When you put the new ones in they will act like the bad one at first. Be careful finding zero lash. I like to set mine up the first time while the intake is off so I can see at the lifter it is at zero lash.
You can set it at TDC on the #1 compression stroke and set up 1/2 the valves, then turn the engine 1 full revolution and set the other 1/2 of the valves. I don't have the chart in front of me which ones are to be set first and which ones are to be set after you turn the motor 1 revolution but I'm sure if you search on here or look in a repair manual it will be in there. I've always done it that way and went with 1/2 turn past 0 lash and I have yet to have a problem. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/17 14:03
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ยด89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| JeffK | Re: Roller Rocker issue | ||
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Elite Guru
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5 hours start to finish minus setting the timing! It was 10:15 when I got that far so I cleaned up the garage and called it a night.
Hoping to get out of class early enough tonight to fire it up and set the timing, top off the coolant and see how it runs. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/18 14:27
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