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| PeteK | Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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I have a huge respect for the tech knowledge, and personal qualitys of the members here, so I would appreciate input.
I am trying to figure out a way to create a torque converter that can be easily disassembled for service, by the end user. That would allow them to do minor overhauls (by providing supporting parts sales), re-stall to a higher or lower speed, all without compromising quality. performance, reliability or warranty. That would allow those who wished to do it, an option. If I can do this for say, $100 above the cost of a standard converter (initial purchase price), do you think the market would be receptive. I personally think it is a great idea, but my builder/assembler is thinking no. Thoughts? Comments? |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 12:42
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| sliding | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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I also think this is a great idea.
If I had a possibility to make that choice when i was buying converter, I would've gone with it. This won't be interesting for people that are looking for cheap or stock replacement converters. But I believe that when buying high performance converter in $500+ range, $100 won't make that much difference. And possibility to rebulid your own TC, or to change stall speed is much more worth. At least in my opinion. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 12:59
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'90 L98 auto with a lot of mods |
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Sounds to me like a test batch should be created and offered for sale to gauge interest. How many would need to be made to reach a break even point. I'm thinking in the 10 to 20 lot range. Or is this a custom build matched to each particular user? You know I'm not a tech guy Pete but just offering my thoughts. The only way to really find out is to offer it, maybe even taking advance orders.
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 13:00
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| PeteK | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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If it were come to production, the few parts needed will be cnc'd. Now, prototypes can be hand made (actually altered, from my standard converter) for minimal cash. The converter will be the same, with the exception of a dual flange that will facilitate the bolt together feature. I am 100 percent confident it can be reliable, my builder is most concerned that the market will not bear the cost. I do agree that guys like Bruno (long distance customers) would have a huge advantage, as shipping overseas is terribly expensive on heavy items. I would (hopefully) still be able to offer this type of unit for less money than a Vigilante. Hopefully, $600 or so, shipped to the lower 48 states. I think the small, initial lot idea is a great one. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 13:14
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| PeteK | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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My thoughts exactly. Those that were nervous would still have the option of shipping them back for factory servicing. Little things like the ability to dis-assemble and flush during a trans overhaul is a great option, not available to us at this time. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 13:16
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| pr0zac | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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i think that level of thinking is above the what the average tinkerer is willing to mess with. but, i would start with one for an ls1. it'd sell instantly.
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 13:27
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| PeteK | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Believe it or not, the Turbo 350/400 converters still sell like hotcakes. We would probably start there. The LS converters are #2 seller here. I also agree that it is way above what most want. I think it would be a more effective marketing tool than a technical advantage (for most). Those of us that hate to be dependent on a supplier would appreciate the ability to get it serviced quickly, without having to deal with costs, and shipping. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 13:32
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| RickAnthony | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Very interesting idea.. I think +100$ over what a similar converter sells for is a good idea. I also agree most people do not mess with their transmissions, but there are some that do and will. I am one of them, I wouldn't mind taking mine apart to change the stall or rebuild/clean it when I am doing a rebuild on the trans ect..
Now how would the case be serviced? I am assuming a bolt together 2 piece housing? As where most are welded together now? how would this affect balancing of the conveter? I assume the case would be indexed and balanced as an assembly so the end user could un bolt it and bolt to back together without changing the balance? Also how are you going to seal the case? welding pretty much takes care of oil leaking out of the halves, but how will you seal it? I would think there would be some pretty high amount of fluid pressure when the converter is spinning at 7K rpms.. I like the thought and if it works I'd consider buying one.. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 14:07
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My Automotive Blog autoserviceupdated.blogspot.com CORVETTE SERVICE & REPAIR RickAnthonyMotorsports.NET |
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| PeteK | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Rick, Correct on all points. Currently, it is easy to do this conversion, but @ a $300 price point. That price is out of the question. My thoughts on sealing these flanges are a double or triple 0-ring design, but I am currently defering to the builder. I trust his judgement more than my own in this area. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 14:15
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| pr0zac | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Elite Guru
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yeah.. i would imagine the whole 350/400 as a big seller. just saying you couldn't go wrong with ls1 stuff. its a great idea. i would skip over if they want it or not.. just make it so you can do it. even if they dont know what they are doing bragging rights sells more parts then usefulness. look at AFR..lol.
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 14:27
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Senior Guru
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Only a $100 over a std converter for a bolt together converter??
I think you'd sell them like hot cakes. I bought one of the first Neal Chance bolt togethers back in 1993 or 94 when I was trying to campain an NMCA car... I remember it cost over $2000 back then. I remember I took a huge loss on and sold my G-Force 5spd , clutch and can to buy a PG and that converter. The last bolt together converter we bought was from PTC and last year it cost $1800. A regular welded converter from them cost us about $700 so there is a big difference in price. We have never had a problem with the O-Ring leaking on our race cars but I don't know how they would hold up to being driven around on real street cars. Will |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 14:49
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| PeteK | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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The $100 target seems to be the big problem. 3x last week, he called me to say, no way can it be done that cheap. I keep pushing him back to say "make $100 work". Materials cannot be more than $25, and once the jigs and cnc program are built, $100 sounds to me like a doable deal. The tug of war continues. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 15:28
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| bogus | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Ok... build one. How much is it to build one with say, a 2800 stall?
now, how much to retrofit the part(s) needed to make it 3200 stall? The key is the disassembly of the TC. To me, this is a brilliant idea. You can tune the TC to the track or weather conditions. Insanely brilliant. If this doesn't make you the Vic Edelbrock of automatic transmissions, nothing will. When you want, hide this thread... you don't need the world to know too much. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 15:41
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| PeteK | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Moderator
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I thought about keeping quiet, but the big dogs have been doing this for years. Smaller manufacturers can do this, but they choose not to. Most industries that work well, resist change. As far as a stall change, disassemble, and install a stator. 1 part, plus 0-rings. $599 would be the target initial converter cost (shipped to the lower 48). Not sure what a stator costs, but hopefully less than $50. Once you own the converter, a stator and o-rings are all you need. If you already own a stator or stator assortment, 0-rings would be all you need. *New bolts if you choose to be cautious. My intention would be to sell these parts at a near zero profit. Solution/service provider. I could offer to buy back the old stators (at a reduced core charge price) as a way to kind of pay it forward (sorta) to keep costs lower. Stators do not wear out. Should a routine stall change or refresh show a damaged component (such as a lock up plate friction material), that component can be ordered if the customer does not own a back up part. For a diehard weekend warrior, there would not be a need to have a complete, back up converter (as many do), but a complete component kit instead. Again, this would not be a "better" converter than what I usually sell, but a marketing tool for a more user friendly converter. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 15:54
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| pr0zac | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Elite Guru
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don't bother with the buy back.. you are already doing something unique at a good price.. build it and charge.. if you aren't making a decent return you gotta do something to reward yourself..
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 17:15
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| Matatk | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Webmaster
 
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I think it's a good idea Pete and average guys would probably be willing to pay up to $150 or so for that service. It sucks if you buy a converter at a certain stall and then it isn't what you wanted. Shipping a converter back to a place runs like $75 and some charge for the rebuild, so I think you'd have a market. I don't think it would be necessary for you to buy any parts back.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2011/4/16 23:33
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| dan0617 | Re: Torque Converter Sales/Tech Question | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I'm lazy.....I'd pay a couple hundred extra for a converter that has an option in which I just push a button to change stall speeds.
Just kidding. I for one would pay a good deal more for a converter that can be serviced fairly easily. |
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Posted on: 2011/4/17 1:41
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ยด89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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