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| jsup | Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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you start asking yourself WTF!! WAS I THINKING....
Other than the injectors being too small, there was no problem with my motor. Other than my boredom, there was nothing wrong with my original motor. The car has 32K miles..... So I start the car and there's a loud clacking. I have never heard this before and all kinds of bad things are going through my mind..... Did I drop a nut down one of the intakes and don't konw it? did I leave a tool in the engine bay? I have no fkn idea what the noise is, and with my frustration this afternoon I put the tools down and walked away......sometimes I find myself just too dam close to a situation.. I have to get another set of experienced eyes on this dam thing. Sigh..... |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:20
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| bogus | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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sounds like you have a loose rocker.
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:21
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| Livin_the_dream | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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I know your frustration when murphy works for me he gives me 120%. Hopefully it will be something minor Good luck. I've been following your progress on the car and hope to do something similar myself.
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:26
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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That's what I thought, so I pulled the VC.
I don't see anything, but I can't be in two places at once. It wasn't lose when I pulled the car into the garage, and I haven't run it since, how would this happen? What would a screw or nut down the intake sound like? I had the hood up, with the intake off (top of the SR, and I am panicking that one of the kids threw something down there. NOw, that would be COMPLETELY out of character for them...however, they are kids. What would it sound like if this happened. I started it twice, for a total of 10 seconds. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:28
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Thanks, I hope it's a lose wrench caught up in somehting, I'm just too frustrated right now. I'm hoping ByeByel98 chimes in.....I can use his eyes and ears. I don't want to let the car run to figure it out. I'm going to go down and look around the hood when I'm done whining. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:31
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| bogus | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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A loose exhaust will do it, too.
Whenever working a motor, like you have, the bolts will work loose. It's nature. You think they are tight, and a little vibration and heat will surprise the hell outta ya. Looking at a rocker won't prove jack. You need to feel each one. Make sure one isn't overly loose. Now, this gets tricky without cranking it over, to be sure you are on the right part of the cam lobe. I would lay a rag over the rockers and fire up the engine. gently grabbing each rocker (at idle, this isn't as scary as it sounds). Let us know what byebye says, if he gets a chance to check it out. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:36
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Livin_the_dream | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
IF something got through the intake and into the cylinder it could make a noise such as you are describing. You could pull your plugs and rotate the motor by hand to bring all the cylinders up one at a time and shine a light in and try to see anything. I personally had a 4 cylinder do this after I had a head job done. Was part of a failed guide. I had to rebuild the motor as it scored the cylinder wall and was imbedded in the piston. However before you jump the gun and rip off the heads. Check everthing else out first- a LOT of possibilitys |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:41
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
This is loud Andy, much louder than I would suspect a rocker to me. I am really hoping in my haste I just left something under the hood. I'm going down to cook dinner soon, (grilling steaks) I'll stop by the car and look. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:42
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
I'm going to try to get more eyes/ears on this thing....I have to go look it over. For some reason I am looking for the worst. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:47
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| Livin_the_dream | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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I'm hoping you have good luck and its something simple . However I know that pit in your stomach feeling. Good luck
Hey I just read your other post and noticed that you said that you lost one of the screws that hold your distrubitor cap on - did you put a screw in there? If not I would check it out |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 21:51
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
I just went to AZ and picked up a new cap, it came with screws. The cap was nowhere near the intake, at least as far as I can remember. I had my wife start the car and I listened. Seems to be dead center under the super ram. I'll just pull the plenum (dam I'm getting tood at htis. When installing the plenum, I dropped a number of the KEP NUTS out of sight. There's no way they can get in anywhere, but maybe they are trapped somewhere that transfers knocking from one place to another. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 22:06
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| pianoguy | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Good luck, man - hope it's nothing serious!
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 22:26
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| Midnight85 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Guru
 
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Am I correct in assuming that you dropped some nuts down inside the engine and didn't retrieve them? I hope this is not the case. Is your car an automatic? If it is, did you tighten the torque converter bolts? I wish you good luck on this.
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 23:09
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HORSEPOWER! Some is good, more is better, too much is just right. |
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
I did not drop any nuts into the motor. I studded the super ram, when putting on the Kep Nuts some fell out of reach of my stubby fingers and my magnet on a stick. However, there's no where for them to go. They'd just lay out of site. There's no way they got into the motor. It's physically impossible. I didn't touch the converter, yet. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/30 23:13
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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I'm sitting here trying to figure out WTF I did.
If anyone is in Northern NJ/NY and can listen to this. I'm sitting here saying "rod knock" and I'm screwed..... I have no idea what this can be. There was no noise when I pulled it into the garage a couple weeks ago. How the hell can a rod knock develop, if that is what it is, from a car that didn't have one before and just sat? I am kicking my own ass all over the place on this.. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 2:28
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| Chucks88 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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Have you tried pulling all the plugs then turning the motor over by hand via the 5/8 nut on your crank pulley. It may reveal a binding or some noise that way
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 2:57
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Not since I parked it. I will do that. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 3:02
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| PeteK | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Moderator
 
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Hook up a timing light to any cylinder and start the engine. If the knock is in sync with the timing light, it may be a rod knock. If so, short out 1 wire at a time. When you find the one that quiets up the motor, that is the cylinder with the problem.
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 3:24
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| toptechx6 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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My vote is for something ingested through the intake, or dropped through an injector port. A flexible borescope would be the easiest way to tell without engine disassembly, best of luck.
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 10:01
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| LD85 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Master Guru
 
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More guesses..
Is it possible that you did not get a Push Rod centered on top of a lifter? I have done this but never started it up like that. Another guess is that you might have set a valve lash on a rocker out of sequence and not on TDC and it could be flopping.... You could be smacking a push rod on your oil pan screen or drip tray, but this would go away little by little. One time I put my Bellhousing cover plate onto the BH and it was hitting the crank and it would make a noise every revolution,, |
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 19:17
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2005/Z51 |
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| bogus | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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check the collectors... I had that happen with my wifes 87 when I first fired it up. The exhause collector was just a little loose and MAN it made a racket!!!!
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 19:45
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Will do. Thanks. Sounds like gunfire with every revolution. The good news is that it's not mecahnical. I've narrowed it down that far. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 20:30
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| Livin_the_dream | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 21:48
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| jhammons01 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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There ya' go. this is the most logical explanation. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 22:47
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| toptechx6 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Man that is good news, sure glad you dodged that bullet, best of luck sorting it out, hope it is good for a laugh once you figure it out.  |
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 23:05
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Can you do a vid of you walking around the car with it happenning of it and post it for us? You can use putfile or other sites for free.
The only thing I could compare with is when I had a bellhousing inspection cover hitting against the flexplate/flywheel it sounded plain nasty, scared the crap out of me but I narrowed it down before getting angry and tearing the trans back out, turned out to be a 10 minute fix. Nothing worse than tearing back into it and still not finding the problem, or finding out it's something stupid. |
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Posted on: 2008/3/31 23:59
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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I'm going to fire it up this monrning. I checked the firing order and placement of the wires on the cap.
I found one that wasn't engaged on the cap, which has happened before, but it never sounded like gunfire last time... I'll see tomorrow. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/1 3:32
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Here' what I'm thinking after making calls and gathering information.
I believe the tune may be out.....or the injectors too big..STFU.... What may be happening is the injectors are feeding too much gas in open loop and washing the oil off the cyl walls and I'm getting noise from the pistons as a result. That would explain it....seems most reasonable. I am getting a set of injectors to try. I have a call into PCM For less to discuss the Tune. What a PIA... |
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Posted on: 2008/4/1 18:55
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| bogus | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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do you know how much fuel you would need to do that? Did someone replace your injectors with fire hose nozzles?
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Posted on: 2008/4/2 1:42
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 0:35
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| kentucky_vetter | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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Ive heard that before or a very familiar sound. Had the electrode fall out of the end of a spark plug in a 396 chevelle, I swear it sounded just like that. Hope ya find it soon.
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 2:48
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| Midnight85 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Guru
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Were the injectors in place when you dropped those nuts? Or, did you change the injectors after you had lost those nuts. Were the nuts small enough to go down an injector hole?
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 3:27
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HORSEPOWER! Some is good, more is better, too much is just right. |
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| Livin_the_dream | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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I think I would try the pulling plug wires and see if the noise goes quiet like Pete K said. How long did you run the motor prior to this? In the video I would have expected to see some oil slinging around.Looks pretty dry up top , I know you did not start it for long .However since you had been running it there should be some oil up there.
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 3:44
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Noise is too fast to be valvetrain or cam...
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 5:38
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| bogus | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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damn... that's a wacky sound.
It's fast... I donno if it's valve train or not. I mean, it could be a single valve. This is gonna be a bitch to sort out. I would start with the plugs, then pulling them out and checking to see if something falls out. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 6:04
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| toptechx6 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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??????? Exactly how did you arrive at this conclusion? |
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 8:30
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
I don't know if I did drop something down there, I'm guessing. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 11:26
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| SpeedHound | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Registered Vendor
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multiple bad lifters? Have you checked valve lash after putting each pair of lifters on the base circle of the cam?
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 12:00
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Yes, the valves are adjusted OK.
The lifters are brand new, they are comp cams pro mags, hard to believe that there would be multiple bad ones, but hell, I'm open to anything. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 12:17
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| Midnight85 | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Guru
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The more I listen to the clip, it almost sounds like a spark plug that is broke or loose letting compression out. The combination of compression and ignition will make a heck of a noise. I remember once I was doing something and left a plug out and fired the engine up, scared the hell right out of me with the racket it caused.
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Posted on: 2008/4/3 13:01
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HORSEPOWER! Some is good, more is better, too much is just right. |
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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I meant the lifters are GM Performance LS7 lifters. Not Comp. My mistake. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/4 2:05
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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What do you guys think about this?
I am using 20/50 oil. The car sat all winter and never made this noise before. Perhaps the oil is too thick. I'm using heavy oil becuase I only run the car in warm weather, 70 degrees and up. The oil pressure guage is coming right up. No problem there. The filter is brand, spankin new, and yes I filled it before I put it on. It's a Mobil 1 filter. I'm leaving it on and not draining it. I think I'm going to drain the 20 50, I have 2 quarts of MMO, I'll throw one in and replace the 20-50 with 10-30. It's a dam shame, that mobil 1 crap was $7 a quart. Here's something. I drove to the exhaust shop, about 20 miles round trip, pulled in the garage, drained the oil, let the pan drip over night. That was the first oil change after the build, I had 10-30 dyno oil The next day, I filled it with the 20-50. Left it like that for 2 weeks while I swapped the injectors. Then I started it and it made that noise. Anything there that I did wrong? |
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Posted on: 2008/4/4 2:06
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Why 20w50 in a car that asks for 5w30?
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Posted on: 2008/4/4 8:04
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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I only drive it in warm weather. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/4 12:15
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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You call 70*F warm weather? Mate id be freezing my tits off!!
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Posted on: 2008/4/4 13:35
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Today's update....
Seems the first issue is that I'm getting oil up to the valves. I let the motor run for 30 consecutive sentence on a stopwatch and nothing. The mechanic that works on my DD only lives two blocks away, he builds motors for his cars, some get restored, some go to the track, so he is familiar with performance applications. He came over and pointed out that no oil was getting up top. He recommended changing the oil filter, maybe I got a bad one. Which I did, I filled it with oil, MMO, and put on the new filter. $4 out the window, but wtf....... Anyway, new filter, same thing. I took the distributor out today and will try to pump up the lifters and get oil flowing with the primer tool, which I have to order since I can't get it locally. I am traveling for the next couple days to the other coast, so perhaps when I get home the tool will be here. Based on the results of the that test, will determine where I go next. If I'm not seeing oil flowing, nothing else really matters. I am showing between 60-80 pounds oil pressure when it fires and runs. |
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Posted on: 2008/4/5 22:31
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| Livin_the_dream | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Senior Guru
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you may have to pull your pan if something is clogging or broken but I guess thats better than doing the heads
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Posted on: 2008/4/5 22:39
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Youre using THE WRONG OIL for a start.
Why you would think 20w50 should be going in an engine that has a factory spec for 5w30 is something im having alot of trouble understanding. The comment about the warm weather driving is lunacy if you call 70*F warm, im still using 5w30 and i just went through 2 months of 100*F plus. 20w50 is TOO THICK and that is why its not getting to the top. Youre saying youre using LS7 lifters if i remember correctly, and as far as i know, the LS7 specifies 5w30 as well. I know for a fact its not calling for 20w50. The oil reaches the top through the lifters, then up the pushrods, and into the rockers. I think its a pretty big ask to make 20w50 flow through a system that was designed around 5w30. The fact you have such a high oil pressure when the engine starts is indication enough to me that the oil is too thick for the job. The gauge on the dash only goes to 80psi!! |
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Posted on: 2008/4/6 1:33
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| jsup | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Elite Guru
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I drain the pan when I get back and throw in some 10-30.
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Posted on: 2008/4/6 1:55
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| CasetheCorvetteman | Re: Is this the point where.................... | ||
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Good idea mate, and remember, until its 100*F outside, its not warm weather.
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Posted on: 2008/4/6 2:06
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