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| CentralCoaster | |||
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Senior Guru
 
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I have a stock L98 with the Z51 oil warmer/cooler. Newer stock replacement radiator, big mouth air dam, and I sealed off the 1/2" gap below the condenser to keep debris out of the radiator. (bad idea?) Both of the temp warning lights came on the display, I've never seen that before.
I've run the car hard before but this is by far the highest it's gotten. This is after a 25 minute session of road course driving. Oil level and coolant levels were fine when I started. Is there something simple that can cause this or do I just need a racing radiator and aftermarket oil cooler now? I hate to think what could happen on a 100F degree day. I guess I should be running 20w50 at the very least before this sort of thing. I'm running Rotella non-synthetic and I'm guessing it's due for a change now.  |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 14:38
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| SpectatorRacing | |||
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Elite Guru
 
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A couple of comments:
Ambient temperature does not have a huge effect on engine temps when driving like this. If your cooling system can handle 60* it should be able to handle 100*. I run very similar temps (peak and steady state) all year, it just takes less time to get there on a hot day. You're running faster, probably running the engine harder. This could be contributing to the problem. Make sure you are forcing ALL air through the radiator. Seal all areas where the air could get around the radiator without going through it. I personally use Right Stuff foam, but I'm sure there are better things out there since it's flammable... I would ditch the BMAD and try another track day. I doubt it's helping and is probably hurting. Oil temps around 300* with synthetic is nothing to worry about. I did that for years on my stock motor with no problems. Lower is better, but that's not horrible. 265* on the coolant is too high, as you obviously know. Focus there first. A bigger radiator will obviously help, but may not be necessary yet. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 14:52
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aka Scaryfast |
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| SpectatorRacing | |||
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Are you running Redline Water Wetter? This is one of those products that actually works. You could drop 10* off your coolant temps.
Also, have you considered running water only? You don't get freezing temps out there, do you? |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 14:54
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aka Scaryfast |
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| Aardwolf | |||
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Odd, maybe closing off that bottom part makes a big difference? Mine is almost to cold in comparison, 190° coolant, 230° oil, 135° trans pan temp. Stock radiator, no water wetter, 50/50 mix, oil and trans coolers hooked up.
LOL I've thought of sealing with foam spray as well and thought of it being flamable. There is one bad gap on mine on the drivers side, I am thinking of running a tube from it to the power steering res. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 15:04
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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No but I travel often to my dad's place where it freezes. In fact I was there later that same night and it got close.
I'm not running synthetic, but I am running the engine harder. A few parts of the track I was running past my normal shift points because I was trying to reduce wasted shiftss. The bmad showed great results on the street, in dropping hot idle temps down twice as fast at 40mph as stock, so it suprises me it wouldn't be shoving more air in on a track averaging 50 mph. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 15:05
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| cuisinartvette | |||
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Did you drop a screw in your intake too?
  Id leave the BMAD on and let the air get under your condenser. Sealing the shroud off is always a good move. how did it do on the trip home? |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 15:14
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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190/190 as always.
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 15:17
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| BrianCunningham | |||
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Senior Guru
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On a 90 degree day I could see that not a 60 degree day.
I went with a racing radiator, and I'm glad I made the switch. You can see the difference. [IMG]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/swiftwood/BayStateCorvetteClub/members/Brian%20Cunningham/upgrades/radiator_2.jpg[/IMG] Next up is an oil cooler, even with Mobil One. and get rid of that "pre-heater" and put a real oil cooler in. Best is a radiator with a built in oil cooler. Which is how the pre-heater thing is suppose to work. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 16:54
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| Aardwolf | |||
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If mine ran that hot I'd assume something was wrong. You were on the same track right?
I made two holes in the radiator shroud hoping to improve high speed cooling. I wouldn't block the bottom gap under the radiator. If you cut a slot for the water neck and hood support it really makes it fast to clean out the radiator area. I took pix: [IMG]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o130/Aardwolfki/radiator1-1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o130/Aardwolfki/radiator2-1.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 17:00
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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WTF? You're assuming there's a high pressure buildup in there that the fan can't keep up with. Cutting large holes in the shroud behind the radiator sounds like a terrible idea to me. Your main fan is going to be pulling air through those instead of the radiator.
I'll check and see what my aftermarket options are, I like the built-in oil cooler idea, because it does help warm up the oil in cold temps. And if you can hold the coolant temp down, the oil temps should stay reasonably close to it. The stock piece has basically no capacity, plus it limits the size of filters I can run without worrying about them hanging too low and getting hit by road debris. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 17:21
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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Senior Guru
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I'll check the radiator for debris anyways just to be safe, and change the thermostat. I have a high flow 180F stat and a stewart waterpump.
It's kinda hard to duplicate those conditions though and test it out without getting arrested. After a search it looks like I'm not the only one and these cars simply weren't designed for this kind of use, including the C5s. The C6Zs are even running 280F oil temps. Maybe this replacement radiator is a POS compared to the original, I dunno. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 17:39
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| Aardwolf | |||
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The fan doesn't EVER run at the track I go to. Is your local track super slow? If you look at the picture you'll see the whole lower part of the radiator is unshrouded.
DRM inspired unshrouded Z06 radiator to promote flow: [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/cobra4b/Picture001-4.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/cobra4b/Picture004-5.jpg[/IMG] Cobra4B |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 17:50
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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If the fan doesn't run, then you're not hitting 228F or whatever the switch is at. So... if you're not hitting 228F, why do you need more cooling? I guess you're saving a tiny bit of power by not needing the fan.
How does that perform in heavy city traffic on a hot WI day? The track is a 1.6mi, 18 turn setup with two long straightaways. Average 110 mph at the end of those, and 50 mph overall. What track are you running? I wonder if that dual fan setup could fit on my 85... |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:01
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| jhammons01 | |||
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Quote:
No, he said to cut the shroud in the places that prevent you from removing the top cover of the shroud without taking off the top hose and oil cooler hose. Remember, we had that conversation before??? You suggested that I cut the shroud in order to allow it to be lifted off without taking any of the hoses off.....for cleaning purposes. I made those cuts on mine just Saturday after changing my radiator out for a new one. IF I am wrong about what he is saying...sorry for that...that is how I interpreted what he suggested |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:11
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| Aardwolf | |||
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Road America is only twenty mins from here so I go there as often as funds allow. Short vid:
Click here to watch MFBA1-4-13-08-Road-America For practice laps I get to 120 MPH at 5,000 RPM and coast to the brake markers, in D. Twice per lap there are long enough straights for that. My track coolant temp as above is only 190° but that has been on days in the 50°'s. My next event is with the NCM in Aug, it will be anywhere from 85-95° so I am prepping to handle more heat. Since I still have the stock oil cooler/warmer on better airflow will help oil temp, that I run around low 230°'s. I just finished the shroud mod and haven't driven the car yet. There are no seats in it! Those should be here Wed. I don't street drive the car that much. Cobra4B in his post about the Z06 shroud mentioned there wasn't a street increase in temp after the mod. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:17
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| Aardwolf | |||
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Quote:
I did both. Making those R&R mods really makes things go smooth. Did you notch the hood support area and remove the small cross part under the water neck? I opened up the top on each side of the fan as well. Also I didn't install every fastner. The two under the air filter seemed to be extra weight same as the engine side fasteners. Less weight and less time R&R. I think this may be my last season with A/C though. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:20
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| jhammons01 | |||
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^^the hood support thing is throwing me off.
I didn't have to mess with anything regarding the hood for the radiator swap. Maybe there is a difference in the years..? |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:41
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| Aardwolf | |||
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Yes there would be differences per year. The shroud on my year would hit the hood support, you can see the notch in the top picture. These mods will help with small cleaning, for major cleaning it's still best to remove the radiator. I couldn't get mine clean with it in the car. It was pretty bad:
[IMG]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o130/Aardwolfki/radiator1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o130/Aardwolfki/radiator2.jpg[/IMG] I had those temps with that clogged up mess!!! |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:50
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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That debris problem is precisely why I blocked off the small gap below the condenser. I knew it'd affect cooling by some amount, but figured what's the point of more airflow when it lets leaves and shit block the radiator within a few months time.
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:53
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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Quote:
No. Take another look at the before and after pics he posted. BTW your hood support is different from the later cars. Every year is different, and the aftermarket doesn't always seem to realize that when they think they've got the C4 market taken care of. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:54
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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Looks like DeWitts won't fit my car because I have the 84-85E "thick" condenser in there.
Too bad I didn't change that out when I did my a/c repair. I don't want to do that all over and dump my R12. Nor do I want to pay a shop to recover and refill it for me. Those guys charge $$$$$ to deal with R12. Feck. These corvette guys seem to worship Dewitt so I can'f find any info about the other options. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 18:56
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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I'll check the shroud and tstat before I cry anymore.
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 19:01
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| LD85 | |||
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Master Guru
 
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How thick is your condensor?
I dont see two sizes at Ecklers, or Mid America. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 19:27
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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Tom Dewitt says the thicker 84-85E condenser is no longer available. So an 84 owner wanting to replace his would end up with the thinner one. Pretty common for them to redesign replacement parts to fit more years.
It's possible (unlikely) that mine has already been replaced, but I'll check. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/27 20:22
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| jhammons01 | |||
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^^ I see it now.
I am not sure cutting via holes in there would help......that is kinda like the old 70s fan shroud cars, you remove the shroud and then you have cooling problems. You need that fan pulling air across the fins |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 5:11
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| SpectatorRacing | |||
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Quote:
Not always. It depends on whether you are having oil or coolant temp problems, or both. Yes, liquid to liquid heat transfer is faster / better than liquid to air as in a traditional radiator style cooler. However, you can never get oil temps lower than your coolant temps due to the greater volume of coolant in this set-up. Consider these situations: If your oil temp is too high and your coolant temp is borderline, you'll raise your coolant temp to a dangerous level. If your coolant temp is too high you won't be able to get enough heat out of your oil. In your situation the internal OC may not be the ideal situation since your coolant is so hot already. You're assuming that the bigger radiator will fix that, but it may only get you to 230* or 240*. Then your IOC is useless. If you go that route, I'd run just the radiator first before routing the oil through it. See what it does to your coolant temps, and if they're great then pump oil through the OC portion. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 13:38
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aka Scaryfast |
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| BillH | |||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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If anyone's interested, i have a brand new Derale oil cooler that I never installed. P/N 15503. It has the sandwich oil filter adapeter, fits Chevy V8's.
Summit's price is $86 + ship. I'll sell it for $50 + ship. You can check the application at Summit, their P/N DER-15503 |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 14:13
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Every man dies but not every man lives. |
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| Aardwolf | |||
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Quote:
I would think so too but then again the whole bottom of the shroud is open. It doesn't really matter though I only care about high speed cooling and the fan is not running then on the track. Sealing the bottom between the compressor and radiator sounds good to make your A/C colder and coolant temp warmer. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 15:27
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| jhammons01 | |||
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I keep thinking that this paragraph could only be correct. I am not sure how much flow goes under that gap, but I would imagine it is significant. And yes, that fan clicks on while sitting most of the time. I still don't like the holes in the shroud however. Something (at first glance, and I may be wrong) just does not sit right with that idea.....in MY head. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 15:53
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| jhammons01 | |||
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Oh and the external Oil Cooler......we are back to our previous discussion on thermal dynamics. Cooling capacities and thermal transfer rates....
My brain starts hurting, I don't really work in that field so I have to research everything prior to posting it. Let's talk about Vacuum and Photons:bigthumb: |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 15:56
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| Aardwolf | |||
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I wouldn't suggest it for daily driver kind of use. I'll post later in the summer if there is any issue with the cuts. I've got an oil cooler setup wishlisted at Summit but since I've only peaked oil temp to 235° I haven't bought it. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 16:28
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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Packaging is an issue also. I like that I could stuff a higher capacity radiator in there to cool the water and oil and not need a seperate cooler.
Is there any substantial restriction with these? |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 17:14
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| SpectatorRacing | |||
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Define "substantial restricton." I'd get a dual core radiator that fits, then add an external OC to the front like everyone else does with great success. Don't overthink this just because you're a PE  Keep in mind you even get some extra cooling from the 6 feet of oil line exposed to the air. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 17:24
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aka Scaryfast |
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| jhammons01 | |||
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Cool!! It could be like a NASCAR thing!! You could put colored tape over the holes for daily driving and "rip" it off in the pits at the track!!! I'm drooling over the possibilities... |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 19:08
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| jhammons01 | |||
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A) that would be a first B) CC, you could braze some fins on the cooler lines and make the whole thing one big heat sink.... |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 19:10
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| BrianCunningham | |||
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Mine's a BeCool. I know they used to make one for yours as well.
I don't know if it's still offered. No oil cooler, other than that I recommend it. http://www.becool.com |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 20:11
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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I was thinking of just putting a cage in and pumping all my oil through that to cool it down. The added benefit is I could mount mechanical oil pressure guages everywhere. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 20:13
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| SpectatorRacing | |||
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Run it like a cool suit all over your body. If you spring a leak you can invite some ladies over for oil wrestling. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/28 21:03
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aka Scaryfast |
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| CentralCoaster | |||
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John, I forgot to tell you I ordered new Bilsteins and put them on Friday night before the races. Took about an hour and a half. I had planned on the 5 hours you told me it'd take, so to pass the extra time I took my shoes off and completed a Rubix cube 43 times with my toes. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/29 0:53
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| jsup | |||
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Hey.... |
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Posted on: 2008/5/29 2:05
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| jhammons01 | |||
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5 hours? you have me confused with another. of course if you would answer your phone....it's sad I have to use my neighbors cell phone to call you, you see a number you don't recognize and you answer... I forgot to say, that was funny as hell |
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Posted on: 2008/5/29 2:49
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| jsup | |||
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Tell me about it. As soon as my friends got caller ID, their never home.. |
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Posted on: 2008/5/29 11:17
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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