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| NC Kid | So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Yes. It's true. We pulled the car off the ramps a few minutes ago. My dad started up the car and I started smelling something. The engine started smoking. My dad is saying what is it. He cuts the motor off and below the large pully on the bottom of the car, liquid is gushing out. He said that looks like rain water. It rained very hard last night. I touched it and sniffted it. It was gasoline. It smelled alot stronger than just regular gasoline though. Sort of like a sweet smelling high octane gasoline.(best descritpion) So we have a couple gallons sitting in our driveway now. The car is still leaking. I think the fuel line ruptured. My dad keeps telling me they are metal. To the best of my knowledge, the ones on the front are rubber. He is trying to figure out whats going on now. YES I AM TAKING PICTURESS TO PROVE THIS SITUATION! This is some weird stuff. I am going back out to investigate further. Will post more information as we figure it out. If you have been in this situation before, please comment! Guess I will be carrying a fire extinguisher from now on.
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 17:12
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| BrianCunningham | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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eep!
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 17:18
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| NC Kid | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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We just tried to start it and the motor wouldn't turn over. Waited a minute then it cranked over. FYI, vats is disabled. So..
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 17:20
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| bogus | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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there are high pressure rubber lines that connect from the metal lines from the tank to the metal lines that feed up to the fuel rails.
These rubber lines are designed to flex when the engine revs and such. They are a pain to replace. When you replace them, to to NAPA and get "high pressure fuel injection hose". Nothing else will deal with this correctly. Get about 6'. Replace both... why take all of that apart when you can get away with doing the labour once? Also, the risk of fire from this is surprisingly low... gas isn't all that flamable as a liquid... the vapours suck, tho. I would reclean the engine bay, now. Gas is very corrosive. You don't want that sitting on belts or wiring for any extended period of time. A fire extinguisher is always a good idea! Especially on older cars. |
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 17:22
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| NC Kid | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
I was hoping you'd post. Ill cover the distributor/alternator and soak it down with the hose and simiple green once it's all fixed up. |
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 17:24
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| NC Kid | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Can I get something just as good at Autozone or advance auto? Napas not open.
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 17:50
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| Schrade | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Do like I've done...
Quote:
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 18:02
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| NC Kid | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Im lost.
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 18:03
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| NC Kid | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Ok, what size is it on my 86? Getting it from advanced. Thanks.
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 18:15
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| bogus | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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just be damned sure the line is high pressure fuel. it should say it on the hose itself. don't depend on the moron behind the counter to be sure.
also get 8 hose clamps and put two on each hose line. This will improve sealing and create redundancy. |
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 18:27
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| NC Kid | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Well here is what happened. Me and my dad got four metal hoses off and ripped the rubber ones off of those. We also found a piece of the air pump tubing we apparently missed. It looks like a small shower head by the water pump lol. Anyway, we are having the car towed to the mecahnics to redo the hoses. The fittings are welded onto the metal hoses and the rubber is connected via inside the hose. It's 6:00 right now and everyones closed. My parents and I came to the conclusion, if the car breaks now, the mechanic can have it towed back to him and fix it for free. If we keep messing with it, we may not have it done correctly and it may break again away from home. So....So far we have the lifter or mysterious ticking noise to be fixed, the fuel hoses reassembled/reinstalled, and it's pretty much a said deal on the injectors. Going with the Bocsh III. Mekanic said they were good and almost silent. Sounds good to me and for less than 200, what the hell, kill two birds with one stone since the tops going to be off anyway. That should fix all the fuel system issues then.
Thanks for the help gents! Peace out. |
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 21:53
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| Matatk | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Webmaster
 
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Good luck with the hoses. If mine go, I'm replacing them w/stainless steel like I've seen a few people do - looks very cool.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2008/9/1 22:27
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| cuisinartvette | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Try and use fittings and a good F.I. type hose, not the stuff that comes off the reel at autozone. Goodrich makes some good stuff. It isnt cheap but beats a fire. do not rely on clamps. FI hose is tough stuff and what feels like a tight clamp in reality isnt doing much at all. Good luck.
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 1:09
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| Slalom4me | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Guru
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Do not take chances with fuel lines. The C4 L98 lines run
adjacent to the passenger side exhaust manifold and the flexible hose segments are near #2 exhaust port. A fuel leak at start-up of a cold engine may not ignite if discovered quickly, but my vote is that a fuel leak on a warm engine has a high likelyhood of igniting. On an engine that is working (road/track) it is a certainty. The rubber sections of the OEM hard lines have collars swaged into place at the unions where the rubber and steel lines meet. These unions are similar in appearance to power steering lines.  A first step might be to check whether replacement supply and return lines are available from GM. If not, then check aftermarket sources like Classic Tube - they list FI feed and return lines in either OE or SS styles for 89-90 C4s. I am unaware of whether field repair of these OEM types of unions is possible. Presumably, there may be local industrial hose firms that have the equipment to do so, or perhaps national firms might offer a rebuild service. Alternatively, it may be possible to use products such as Aeroguip's Versil-Flare Flareless AN Tube Nuts and Ferrules to modify the existing lines to accept a section of braided hose to replace the OEM rubber hose. (Note that bend radius of SS braid may not be adequate for this purpose.) One requirement for this approach is for there to be tube nuts and ferrules available in the correct size to fit the metal portions of the OEM fuel line.  A different, more common approach seen in the past is to use Metric-to-AN adapter fittings to replace the supply & return line sections. The OEM sections that run from the fuel filter under the passenger footwell forward to the L98 fuel rail are removed, adapter fittings are installed in the OEM fittings and then hoses with AN fittings are used to complete the supply & return fluid paths. . |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 5:24
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| bogus | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I agree with all of the above. The lines need to be as good as humanly possible.
This is just another example of how the prior owner of bastet44's 87 really screwed the pooch. On her 87, the fuel lines were rubber with hose clamps. Seriously. I thought that was OEM... a little odd, but I thought they were OEM. My ignorance. Thanks for clearing it up, gang! |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 5:33
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| anesthes | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Master Guru
 
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I replaced all mine with -6AN hoses and fittings. 16MMx1.5 saginaw into the fuel filter, and a female version into the hard return line. Re-routes the lines up around the blower motor.
When I had the factory lines, I had the car idling for a few minutes. I hit the feel line with my IR gun. 187f. The line is soo close to the headers it super heats the fuel. First discovered this when doing an injector swap on a '90, that had been run about 20 minutes prior. The fuel coming out of the rail was soo damn hot it burned. The factory routing, like MANY other things on a C4 is outright retarded. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 11:48
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| cuisinartvette | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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interesting (actually disturbing) the fuel line is placed in a way that allows it to get that hot.
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 13:11
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| anesthes | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
I know I've been on this bandwagon for some time now, and folks are probably getting sick of it but. I really must say the C4 is a horribly built and designed car. There is so many things on the C4 that are just dumb, or poorly crafted. I really don't know what GM was thinking. Obviously I'm more the fool for keeping it (and keeping dumping money in it) but I really made a mistake jumping from fbody to the C4. I should have built a C3 or C5.. Most GM production cars of the same time period do something a certain way. The C4 has to do it in a different, more complex way. Oh well. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 13:19
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| cuisinartvette | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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I share your senttments. Such a neat looking and driving car, but God, outside of that what a POS in so many ways lol.
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 13:31
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| Slalom4me | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Guru
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The SBC and BBC had their fuel pumps positioned at the
front passenger side since day one. The routing of L98 fuel lines replicates the path used for the previous carbureted generation(s). The path for the LTx marks the first significant revision since the Chev V8 debuted in '55. A lot of cars, trucks, commercial vehicles, boats, and who knows what else have operated for their entire existance with the fuel line configured to run near the block and exhaust. Fuel line maintenance is not given sufficient consideration on North American vehicles. I am unsure of the reason, perhaps OEM materials and environmental/operating conditions enable NA fuel lines to last longer? Euro car enthusiasts in the know make a point of replacing flexible sections of fuel lines on a 7-10 yr basis. Early C4s have now been in service for up to 25 yrs. Tick, tock ... Gasoline possesses a significant amount of energy and there are no shortage of videos depicting the consequences of a fuel fire. The typical enthusiast is often under-equipped for fighting a fire at home or on the road. Hazards from a fuel line leak may be compounded by the quantity of fuel in the tank, gravity, siphoning action and the difficulty of accessing locations for leaks. Fire caused by fuel flash-igniting on hot adjacent surfaces may be momentarily extinguished only to re-ignite when more fuel siphons out and contacts still -hot surfaces (or is ignited by sparks from electrical wires whose insulation has been compromised.) There may be little left of the vehicle by the time the firemen arrive. If the car is in a garage, a vehicle fire threatens the building, contents and occupants. . |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 16:17
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| CentralCoaster | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Replacing the entire piece with stainless braided is nice, IF you can keep it from rubbing on anything.
I'd just buy the replacement factory piece, or go to your local hose or A/C shop and have them rebuild those lines. If the rubber is in fact leaking, they can replace it and braze or otherwise install onto the existing ends and put new swaged connections and rubber hose. The parts stores should all have Goodyear fuel injection hose with the blue liner inside. It's expensive, about $5 per foot, if you can figure out how to make use of it. |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 16:57
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| Slalom4me | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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1989 L98 supply and return fuel lines
- from filter to fuel rail.  . |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 17:04
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| anesthes | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
What? No, none of my fbody's, my buick ever ran them within 2" of the header, on the inner side of the rail. On all 4 of my 3rd gen fbody's they ran them down the driver side, snaked up the tunnel and stopped under the steering column on the TOP side of the rail away from the heat where they switched to rubber. On the C4, the line routing is absolutely RETARDED. End of story. On the Fbody (you know, the car the corvette is FAR superior to according to everyone on CF) they have no problem running rubber hose to cross over the top to the fuel rails. Yet on the vette they have to snake the line up the front of the block? Sure, it's more hidden but it also gets too hot. Quote:
"Near" is the keyword. On the vette it's too close. The line could have ran on the top of the rail, then changed to a hose. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 17:08
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| anesthes | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Master Guru
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The twist-tite stuff summit sells is fairly cheap. About $2.70 a foot. I know everyone likes the looks of the braided line but it's not as flexible. This stuff is good for 250psi. http://store.summitracing.com/partdet ... -220783&view=1&N=700+150+ -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 17:12
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| Slalom4me | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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I'll defer to anesthes' superior experience with the L98
powered F-Body. I owned a '96 Camaro, but it had the Buick 3.8 V6. . |
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 17:18
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| NC Kid | Re: So my car almost caught on fire.... | ||
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Elite Guru
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Thanks. There is alot of reading in this thread I need to review but just so you guys won't think I am ignoring your thoughts(im not), the car is with the shop. Going to talk to him hopefully tomorrow and see what he can discover and take actions from there before stuff gets bought that don't need to be bought.
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Posted on: 2008/9/2 21:36
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