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| DaleD | Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I've noticed my car will occassionally be rough to turn over. A slow growl then it kicks. Other times, no problem, turn the key and it's almost instant on.
Today I took it for a drive. When I started it, after having sat a week, it was instant on, turned over real crisp. When I came back, after driving about 15 miles, I put it a little too far into the garage. So I went to back it out. Turned the key and just a click. I turned it 3 or 4 times with a click each time, then it just kicked off. Bad spot on the starter? I've had starters go bad that spun, but not quite like this. So, I figured I'd ask here. If it is the starter, how tough is it to do, and where do I get one? |
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Posted on: 2009/4/1 23:29
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| captmike13 | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Mine was doing that last yr. I changed the solenoid and all was fixed. Not a hard job but you do have to pull the starter to do it.
Mike |
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Posted on: 2009/4/1 23:42
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Mike| Durango_Boy | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Elite Guru
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First off I would get under the car and check the connections at the starter. You'll have a heavy gauge cable from the battery that needs a very good connection since the starter draws a lot of juice. The ground from the starter should have a spot on the frame it goes to, so check that as well to see if it is solid with no corrosion or frayed wires.
Check those same connections at the battery. POS and NEG both need to be solid with no corrosion or broken wires. Finally, it sounds like your starter is going bad if it's not the connection issue. You can test this...the next time it has trouble starting...get under the car and whack the starter can with a hammer a few times. You won't hurt it. Then try to start it. If it kicks right over then you do probably need a new starter. If that doesn't make a difference then it might be a connection or battery problem. Replacement starters can be bought at any local parts store. Replacing the starter isn't too bad in a C3 so it might not be too bad in a C4. You just need to have access to the underside of the car. Disconnect the battery, ALWAYS, before even touching the connections with a wrench. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/1 23:45
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| Andrew | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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2013 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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DaleD, I had this same problem last fall. Exact same symptoms. Like Durango_Boy said, check the connections first. If all is good, then the battery could be sulfated, or lost the capacity to hold a deep charge and is operating only on a surface charge. To test for this, hook the batter up to a 30 amp charge that has a volt meter. Charge the battery and if the volts meter exceeds 16 volts within 10 (+-) minutes, change the battery. If the battery passes the above test, load test it at 200 amps for 15 seconds. If it does not maintain 10.8 get a new battery. If all of this passes, it is most likely the plunger in the starter.
I started with the plunger last fall (pulled the starter, tore it apart, replaced the plunger, put it back together, and reinstalled the starter) and it did not fix the problem. Then I took the battery to Autozone and the battery passed. Put the battery back in the car and asked for help. The instruction above was the help and it turned out that it would not maintain 10.8, but was close. Unfortunately, just low enough to cause the problems. Sooo, I went in reverse order and could have saved quite a bit of time. Turned out to just be a bad battery. Let us know how it goes. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/1 23:59
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| jhammons01 | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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remember the wires under there could be corroded....mine just decided to break one day...had to have it towed home...where I found a fusible link had just...gone........
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Posted on: 2009/4/2 5:19
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| bogus | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Not on my Vette, but on our Jeep, the wires were so oily that the starter would'nt.
Modern starters don't have ground straps... they are self grounded by being bolted to the car. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/2 5:52
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
When I mentioned the ground I was referring to the battery ground to the frame. Here's what one looked like that came off of a '74 that was for the most part in great shape. This is actually frame to engine, but the battery to frame was just as frayed and I simply replaced it with a $7 cable from Autozone. [IMG]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m242/durango_boy/CIMG0418Medium.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2009/4/2 12:06
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| kelley | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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mine did the same thing,it finaly hung on and tried to start by itself,i had key in my pocket and was under hood,,pulled the battery wire,scared the crap out of me, changed the started it fixed the problem.
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Posted on: 2009/4/2 12:29
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| CFI-EFI | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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I agree with Durango_Boy on cleaning all 4 ends of the battery cables. If that doesn't solve the problem, you may be able to avoid buying a starter by pulling the solenoid apart and cleaning up the contacts. If you reverse or turn the large washer/contact around that gives you all new contact surfaces. Then file the bolt head contacts and you will have a fresh solenoid.
RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2009/4/2 14:27
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| bogus | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I got ya, DB... our cables on the C4 are different. They have a molded in pig tail that runs to the chassis, and another that runs either to the block or to the bell housing bolt, depending on vintage.
But yes, if they are bad, you are boned. I just replaced my hot wire from the battery to the starter. It was pretty gnarly! The end at the starter on the OEM cable was bent and pretty tragic, at the battery, corrosion had worked its way down the wire. I guess what we are collectively trying to say is that starters are rather reliable and perhaps that other things are the cause. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/2 14:31
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| BrianCunningham | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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I had mine die on me when my real main seal went and it soaked the starter with oil.
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Posted on: 2009/4/2 21:10
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| DaleD | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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I took the easy route. Took it to a shop. The owner told me it was the solenoid. He knows a guy that rebuilds them. Total tear down bead blast and rebuild, $225 installed.
I gave the ok. Also had him diagnose the EGR. The temp sensor that I replaced a couple years ago is bad. The EGR valve is working. So that's fixed now too. He also found some bushings in the back that were clunking. I noticed it but ignored it. I'm going to let him do that too. I'm also having an oil sample sent in for analysis. It's only $30. My goal is to not be stranded this year. Here's hoping. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/4 18:25
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| CFI-EFI | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Holy smokes! My suggestion was a solenoid rebuild, but for free. If you wanted to go all out, a solenoid rebuild kit is $5.00 or $6.00. A new solenoid can't be $25.00. Even a starter with solenoid should be about half that. OUCH! RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2009/4/4 21:53
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| DaleD | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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I'm not wealthy, but not cash strapped either. The starter is likely 23 years old. My philosophy on this car is everything I touch, (or pay to have touched), I want it to be improved as much as possible. If it costs me $200 extra to minimize the potential of having to deal with a failed starter later in the driving season, I'm good with that. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/4 22:19
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| CFI-EFI | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Okay, but it sounds like you got a rebuilt solenoid for $225.00, the same as I described that you could had got for free. The starter still could fail. Quote:
An AZ rebuilt complete starter WITH solenoid would have been $130.00, exchange. RACE ON!!! |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 0:21
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| DaleD | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Ok, you got me, poor wording.
 It's a rebuilt starter and solenoid. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 0:35
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| Matatk | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Webmaster
 
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I understood what you meant, Dale. I don't think it's a bad price for the shop to pull it, have it rebuilt, and then reinstall it. Some guys doing it themselves have problems with reshimming it, etc. I wouldn't worry about it and the peace of mind is worth it.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 1:25
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| DaleD | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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I figured I was getting my cage rattled. I know there's a stigma about having work done versus doing it yourself. Not worried at all. I'm happy. In a few days I'll have my car back, and it will be better than it ever has been since I've owned it.
A little at a time. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 1:28
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| bogus | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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If you were going to spend that cash, I would have suggested a conversion over to a mini-starter.
JMHO. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 1:57
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Elite Guru
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I agree, brand new race mini starters designed for high compression engines cost half what your rebuild cost. They are better in every way. Smaller so they are further away from exhaust heat, they use less power, and they spin the engine faster. No downside at all. I'm not knocking what you paid...heck I have spent lots of money on my car so I'm not going to bash anyone else for what they spend. Bottom line. In fact I like taking my alternators to a local shop that rebuilds them as opposed to buying reman alts from AZ or OR. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 5:23
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| bogus | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I do, too. I have found a local guy that does a really nice job.
Next up, replacing the ground wire... |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 5:39
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| vetteoz | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
bogus wrote:  New OE style Denso starter ; replaces big heavy starter on earlier C4's $80 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-ST ... uckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories Spins my 11:1 383 no problem |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 7:38
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| Matatk | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Webmaster
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Where? He paid about $100 to have his starter rebuilt. The other $150 was labor to R&R. If you have a mini starter for $50 brand new give me a link because I need one. All the good mini starters I've seen are ridiculously expensive. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 11:54
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Matatk | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Webmaster
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Not saying that's a bad starter, but it's still $100 by the time he gets it. How is it any different than getting his rebuilt for $100? I had my alternator rebuilt two years ago and I guarantee it's better than the crap from autozone. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 11:55
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Okay I misunderstood about how much he spent but I still think this is a great price and I do trust the quality and warranty of these starters. Here is basically what I have. Great quality and low price. I assume this will work just as well on your C4 engines as it does on Gen1 and Vortec engines. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY- ... 65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 14:02
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| DaleD | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Would have been nice to know before I gave the ok, but live and learn. Not anything worth worrying about now. My choice was rebuild the solenoid only, and end up dealing with a broken starter later. Or, getting a new Chinese starter and hoping it's good, or going the rebuild route. Apparently a mini would have been the way to go, but too late now. Hopefully it won't be an issue for some time. |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 15:31
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Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart, but I'm street smart", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I'm imaginary smart". |
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| Durango_Boy | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Elite Guru
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I know you can also get brand new GM mini starters that were on the trucks but I think they tend to cost more and are 2 HP starters instead of 3 HP.
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 15:36
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| Matatk | Re: Bad starter? | ||
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Thanks, I'll have to look into that this summer when I replace mine. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/4/5 22:29
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