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| Weavsvet | I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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I took my car to the dyno yesterday. It absolutely sucked! It was down to 277 rwhp from 303 on my last pull before the cam I installed.
To top it off I just made one pull because the car refused to start or do anything after that pull. I'm assuming it was VATS but I don't really know for sure yet. The PCM may have just died on me. I put and extra PCM I had in the car and it fired right up. I got it home and I'm in the process of taking this up with my tuner. He says it probably isn't the tune making it run so bad that it is the motor. I disagree because it ran pretty damn good before the new cam. What do you guys think? Just to refresh.......1996 LT1 PCM retuned The CPS has been deleted on the car. Rear 02's tuned out The cam is a LE 226/230 .565/.565 111 lsa Duration @ .006 280 284 The motor is stock and has 95K on it. The rear gear is 3.07 2800 Pete K stall EWP 1.6 rr's Patriot extreme valve springs New GMPP lifters Hardened push rods Guide plates Double roller timing chain New GM opti New MSD 8.5 wires New coil 52mm BBK TB |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 8:27
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Here is the pull
[IMG]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj256/WEVSVET/Dynofileaftercam.jpg[/IMG] Here is a look at the AFR [IMG]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj256/WEVSVET/DynopullaftercamAFR.jpg[/IMG] |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 8:39
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| Mekanic | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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your tune sucks. Either that or you're not getting spark
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 8:42
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~Rich Polo LT4 Yea tho I walk through the valley in the shadow of rice, I shall fear no turbo, for torque art with me. |
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Thanks, I'm hoping it's the tune! This cam should be in the 340 rwhp range. I've lost at least 65 RWHP somewhere. I guess I'll start with the tune and go from there. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 9:16
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| Mekanic | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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When logging, make sure to look at your injector duty cycle.
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 10:16
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~Rich Polo LT4 Yea tho I walk through the valley in the shadow of rice, I shall fear no turbo, for torque art with me. |
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| anesthes | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Master Guru
 
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His tune is off, but the AFR is between 12:1 and 13:1 the whole pull. Who installed the cam? Might be indexed wrong. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 12:00
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| bogus | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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can you upload the data log?
If the cam is indexed wrong, then timing gets ugly... |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 14:06
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| anesthes | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
Fugly ugly! But it's happened before. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 14:53
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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I installed the cam and it was not degreed. Lloyd said would be close without doing that because the advance is ground into it. I installed the sprockets dot to dot. There is no data log to upload only the pull.
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 16:43
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| anesthes | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
So ? What if the advance wasn't ground into it? I think you misunderstood what he said, or he was smoking a big fatty. Anyhow, dots aside since it's the crank gear that has the different slots and you didn't take that off, if you are 100% sure you aligned the dots it has to be at least installed the same way as the previous cam. Could be anything. Poorly adjusted valves, timing off, etc. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 17:13
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| Vetron87 | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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The dynamics have chanced on air intake of your engine since cam install Noticed that you have 52 BBK maybe a 58 BBK would have been a better choice! Can you check total timing advance during pull?? Your loss of HP has to be fuel/ignition assuming cam install was correct. Are the 1.6 roller rockers causing cam duration increase to create the performance issues. Whole can of worms have to be sorted out. Start with ignition timing and moved to valve timing/adjust. Hope this helps
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 18:35
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| biggrizzly | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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I think your LE cam is Ok. Have you re-flashed the PCM again after the dyno pull? I think I'd go back to the tuner and ask for a copy of the original .bin file and then ask him to just for grins take another look at his settings for you. It is possible to get a corupt file and then something be off. I just went through something similiar and was on the phone for two days with Bryan from PCMforLess and another tuner asking similiar questions. Bryan told me that it is possible for the .bin files to get corrupted. I was lucky and found a stupid mistake.
I hope you find a stupid mistake and this gets ironed out for you. But I think I'd flash it again and see what comes of it. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 19:00
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| pianoguy | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Guru Emeritus
 
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I'll get out the garlic and crucifix and hope it's just the tune that's fubarred - that involves the least amount of knuckle bandages and sore muscles.
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 19:10
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1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| Jeffvette | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Elite Guru
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Knock counts?
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 20:47
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Use lots!!!!! I put the PCM from the Dyno back in to check for codes, nothing. Turned the key to crank it and the car fired right up. This is over my head so I'm going to take it to a fairly local shop that has a dyno tune. That should tell me something anyway. Thanks for all the replies and advice guys. I'll post up what the results were after I get back form the shop. Mike |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 21:02
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| Epimax | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Howdy Mike! Man, I sure hope you get it sorted out! |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 1:39
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| dan0617 | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Mis-adjusted valves or timing way off or serious exhaust restriction are a few places to look.
Make sure the dyno pulls are made in 3rd gear with the converter locked. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 19:00
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Did a compression test this afternoon. Does this look about right? The motor has 95K n it.
#1- 210 3- 210 5- 200 7- 200 #2- 220 4- 225 6- 235 8- 225 |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 23:56
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| PeteK | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Moderator
 
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The spread from high to low could be better, but it looks healthy enough.
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 0:22
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Josh | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Guru
 
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Is the car already at RPM? RPM does good work, but they are more LSX based than LTX. The most knowledgable LTX guy around is Craig Staples at Staples Auto Engineering in Durham. He's got a dyno, and the stuff to tune your car. www.staplesautoengineering.com
If the car isn't already at RPM, I might give Craig a shot first. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 13:11
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"Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton |
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Hi Josh,
I did get in touch with him like you had suggested a while back and he says he can't do the '96. Tune it anyway. I still have the car. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 21:35
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| Mekanic | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Registered Vendor
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How can he not tune a 96? Its OBDII, same as EVERY CAR from 96+ ;p;
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 23:10
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_________________
~Rich Polo LT4 Yea tho I walk through the valley in the shadow of rice, I shall fear no turbo, for torque art with me. |
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Not eally sure. This is the email I recieved from him.
Unfortunately I have no way to tune 96 or 97 lt1s.Most of my customers arerunning the obd 1 computer.We can tune only the 94 and 95 lt1s.The tune is usually around $300. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 2:41
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| pianoguy | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Guru Emeritus
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Yep, different version of LT1 Edit required for 96-97 cars.
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 2:56
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_________________
1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey |
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Yeah, I kind of gathered that after talking with them. I had a bad feeling though when he said this cam will only make around 315 or 320 rwhp. If it doesn't make 335-340 when I get it straightened out I will not be a happy camper! |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 8:43
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| Mekanic | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Registered Vendor
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Different version of LT1 edit yes, but 99% of tuners worth their salt have HP Tuners in their tools.
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 8:58
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_________________
~Rich Polo LT4 Yea tho I walk through the valley in the shadow of rice, I shall fear no turbo, for torque art with me. |
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| Josh | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Guru
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He does have HP tuners, but it does not appear that HP tuners supports LTX cars.
http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmsuite_vehicles.php If Craig can't do it, Blazing High Performance would be my next choice. I think BHP outsources their tuning to Mayhem Motorsports, but I don't really know for sure. BHP has built some pretty stout LTX cars. They are just finishing a motor in a 96 C4 for a friend of mine, and there is a heads/cam 96 CE that made a ton of power for a stock bottom end car (420-430 RWHP or something) that came from them. Or, I'm sure RPM can get you squared away. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 14:44
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_________________
"Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail." - Jack Burton |
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| anesthes | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Master Guru
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And you guys wonder why I give everyone a hard time for not tuning their own cars, especially after throwing tons of aftermarket parts at it.
http://www.tunercat.com/ - get the RT OBDII tuner, and the roadrunner module from moates. Tune in realtime, like the fbody guys do. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 15:11
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'79 Z28. 412 CID, NP 833 transmission, 3.73 10.5" rear end. |
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| dan0617 | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
:sign3: Once the cam is swapped out, mail order tuning becomes questionable at best. I've paid pcmforless, then Azzato, and the car never started running right till I invested about $150 in tuning stuff and quite a bit of time. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 17:20
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| Weavsvet | Re: I need help Gurus............bad! | ||
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Senior Guru
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Got another PCM from my tuner over the weekend with my tune in it and a adjusted AFR. The car seems btter but won't know for sure or how much better if any until a dyno run. Hopefully I can do that this week. The shop I'm going to this time can change the tune for me if it's off.
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Posted on: 2009/10/26 11:02
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