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| TommyT-Bone | What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
 
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 2:38
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| jsup | Re: Who Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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They compete with these guys:
www.brodix.com and www.dartheads.com and http://www.canfieldheads.com/ and http://www.edelbrock.com/ and www.trickflow.com and a couple others. They make a nice product, as do all the others. In some cases they perform better in some worse. however, Brodix and Dart seem to be piling up all the trophies and are regarded as having superior R&D and QC, unmatched by anyone else in the industry. They clearly spend more money on R&D than their competitors, by a long shot. They make a nice consumer grade head, but when winning is the primary objective, Brodix and Dart seem to have the edge. Oh, and to answer your question, it's not "so many" in terms of complete market share. however, in the world of internet message boards, it is substantial. I chalk it up to a Jim Jones pack mentality type of longing for peer acceptance, ya know, being cool. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 2:42
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Who Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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That's a great list for comparison jsup.
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 2:45
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| jsup | Re: Who Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Why, thank you Tommy. I might note that Brodix has a new video section on their website and their motors are putting out some incredible power. Dart is very involved with customer service and has a message board where their engineers participate directly. It would be well worth researching those two as they are the clear leaders in the field, there's a lot of information out there and before you drop over $1500 for a part. Good advice wouldn't you say? |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 2:50
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| Notorious | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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AFR African
AFR Australian Financial Review AFR Afrikaans (South African language) AFR Air France (ICAO code) AFR Alternate Frame Rendering AFR Applicable Federal Rate AFR American Family Radio (Christian radio network) AFR American Financial Realty Trust AFR Air Force Reserve AFR Air Force Regulation AFR Annualized Failure Rate AFR African Department (International Monetary Fund) AFR Afren PLC (UK) AFR Allocation Formation Reclassement AFR Air-to-Fuel Ratio AFR Automatic Feature Recognition AFR Annual Failure Rate AFR Alternative Fuels and Raw Materials AFR Average Failure Rate AFR Asociatia Femeilor din România (Women's Association of Romania) AFR Advanced Fuel Research, Inc. AFR Away From Reactor (water storage basin) AFR Applied for Registration AFR Alt.fairs.renaissance (Usenet group frequented by RenFest attendees) AFR Authorized Firm Representative (persons responsible for managing a financial institution's access to the National Registration System) AFR Automatic Flexible Routing AFR Administrative and Fundraising expense Rate AFR Air Force Recognition AFR Available for Reassignment AFR assign frequency for network reporting (US DoD) AFR Audit Finding Report AFR Asynchronous Fixed Repetition AFR Arndt-Ford-Roper AFR Artillery Flash Ranging AFR Authentication Failure Report AFR Appropriation for RDT&E AFR Approximate Factor Re-Normalization AFR Advanced Fuel Reprocessing AFR As Found Report AFR Affordable Readiness AFR Average Fuel Rate AFR Acid Fractionation Recycle AFR Ampoule Filling Room AFR Angle Face Ring (pipe valves and fittings) AFR Air Fuel Ratio AFR Automatic Facial Recognition AFR Automatic File Replication |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 2:51
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| BrianCunningham | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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LOL
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 2:51
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| PeteK | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Moderator
 
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If it is not technical in nature, I strongly suggest you delete it.
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 2:53
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| BeachBum | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Master Guru
 
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Wow again....
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 3:20
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863 cubic inches of C4 & C6 muscle C6 Corvette Z06 - Lemans Metallic Blue C4 Corvette 436 - Pure Black http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3933547 ... chevrolet-corvette/page-1 |
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| BrianCunningham | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Senior Guru
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Nice packages
http://www.airflowresearch.com/chevy_dyno.php |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 3:43
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| bogus | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I am getting tired of opening threads that are obvious bait.
I am getting tired of the same hackneyed arguments. Let's call it a truce. There are more head manufacturers than AFR. Check. For some builds, another brand may be better. It may be worse. It's really hard to quantify, isn't it, because the entire industry is full of bold face liars. At least that's what some think (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). Here is my take: Marketing is a son of bitch. Within EVERY bit of marketing, there is truth and then there is a twisted truth. As with any technology, there is a requirement to understand as much as is possible about the subject. But here is the rub: Cylinder heads are complex... not just in their mechanics, but in their results and how they get there. The theoretical sciences behind them are well beyond the grasp of many a normal person. I have been studying, reading, working on, driving and generally messing with cars since I was 8 years old. I would like to think I know more than the average bear... but even I am at a disadvantage when it comes to heads and they theoretical properties. Yea, I know flow rates and such. I know the concepts behind small ports, high volicity... sure, it makes sense, really... and in other engine configurations, it is the ONLY way (how in the hell do you think they make 800+ HP out of a 2.4 litre V8? It sure ain't with a set of cast iron heads). So until you all magically grow degrees in fluid dynamics, stop this pointless debate. It degrades into total train wreck; which I have to clean up. A vortex of utter bullshit backed up by nothing. And when I say nothing, I mean NOTHING. None of these stupid arguments has swayed my opinion one way or the other... chiefly, because the main protagonist in this passion play, (yes jsup, you) has been quoting chapter and verse from Dart. I lose respect for things like that. What it comes down to is this: If you buy a given head. Put in the right cam. Build it right. It will make power. After that, the debate of power left on the table becomes moot. You know why? Ask jsup. He knows why. He doesn't know how much power that 427 is putting down, but you know something funny? HE CAN'T PUT WHATEVER POWER IT IS MAKING DOWN TO THE PAVEMENT. A laugh a minute, eh? Will be when he encounters black ice. That would really be funny. Not. Hell, at this point, if someone in Cleveland even THINKS about black ice, jsup's Vette is in a ditch. So I ask this question: Does it matter? Once we get a street car past about 450hp, does it REALLY matter? To me, no. I like the idea of a car that will pass smog without having to grease the palms of the smog check guy... I like the idea of being able to punch it, move rapidly and not do so in a counterclockwise rotation (yes, the trend for Chevy's is to rotate the rear to the right, counterclockwise). The next person that starts a parody thread about AFR is going to be banned for 1 week. If you have a legit question, great. But you have ALL been warned. No more messing around, children. It's over. Grow up. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 6:08
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| 85L98-84L83 | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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An over priced head. Edelbrock or vortec will flow as good as an AFR head with out all the extra $$$$.
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 6:56
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85 vette - 3.54 gears,pulleys,160 stat,hypertech chip,K&N,no cat,B&B cat back,cut air lid,TB bypass,air pump elim pulley,air foil,Torque thrust II wheels,maaco paint job 84 vette - K&N,renegade,2 inch TB's,adustable fuel pressure to 15 psi,air pump e... |
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| anesthes | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
You do realize that every time a retard get's banned from CF they come over here, right? While the intention was to attract "gurus" I think your plan is backfiring. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 11:39
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'79 Z28. 412 CID, NP 833 transmission, 3.73 10.5" rear end. |
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| Matatk | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Webmaster
 
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LOL @ Notorious.
IBTL. Matthew |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 11:49
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| PeteK | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Moderator
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Quote:
Not only is my request ignored, but others continue to offer non technical comments to feed the fire. Nice to see respect has let the building. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 11:52
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| jsup | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Elite Guru
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You know Andy, I agree with everything you said with one exception. Yes, I quoted something here and there from Dart, not "chapter and verse", but let me concede the point for the sake of argument. It is no less valid than those who quote chapter and verse from AFR. Let's not lose sight of that. No other manufacture promotes a product the same way, yet the discussion is ALWAYS framed the same way, that's what I call a circle jerk.
Look at how this started. Someone came here to rebuild an L98. He wanted a 300 HP motor. Somone, somewhere, on some forum, told him the first thing he needs to do is drop $1500 on AFR heads and $1000 on an intake. Does that seem like good advice to ANYONE? Serious. Can anyone defend that as good advice? All Pr0zac did was point out the stock heads would be fine, I backed it up, and the argument went right back to no, AFR is the only solution. That's my problem. It wasn't even the right solution IMO based on the goals, but we can't have that conversation without the bullshit starting. I simply don't understand this overwhelming requirement to push people into buying AFR by forum members, as if they have a vested interest in it. One more thing. What's with all the AFR related threads that are started? May I also point out the number of threads started with an AFR slant is grossly disproportionate to ANY manufacturer of any product. Hey, look at this build, AFR, Hey, I can save you $25 bucks on AFR over Summit (like that's worth a thread), etc... Where's the thread on Mahle? Scat? Jensel? Comp Cams? Get TF over it, there's a lot more to talk about than heads, get a life. I am tired of it myself. That's when the circle jerk starts. Look at Wes's post. If he used AFR heads in his run there'd be 100 posts by now talking about how great the power is..you know it, I know it, let's just say what it is. But again, back to the point. This guy came here looking for advice. He was given bad advice, and when that was pointed out, shit hit the fan. Do I live in an alternate universe or is that not what happened? Seems pretty clear to me. The reason being is that the bad advice was against buying AFR. I don't think there could be a more clear example how this works. Many of you have helped me through my decision making process, PeteK, Ron, Joe (anesthes), Mick (mseven)if I forgot anyone sorry. They gave me solid theory devoid of manufacturer bullshit. Wish the rest of you could follow that example. I don't get the overwhelming urge to try to force people into a particular product. And, please, don't insult the little intelligence I have, by telling me it doesn't happen. It happened to ME, I have first hand experience in it. People aggressively trying to make me buy AFR. Let me finish on one last note. When I had people shoving AFR down my throat I did something none of you have done, I went in head first and learned about heads from multiple engineers with fluid dynamics background, and talking to real high performance engine builders that are winning races. I took nothing as fact, and cross checked every fact. Which one of the leghumpers have done that? That's my point. Calling Tony Mamo and repeating what he tells you isn't learning anything. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 13:29
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Parts don't make power, engines make power. |
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Chair-man of the bored
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Mods...I started it. May I request this thread be deleted. I was reading another thread and I did in fact draw the posts to this thread trying to salvage another thread that had gone astray. It was working like steel to a magnet until ................
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 13:45
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| bogus | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Quote:
You just can't suck it up can you? You just have to dump another page long diatribe, don't you? Just leave it alone. We all know your position. Stop it. Everyone is sick and tired of it. I am getting PMs at an alarming rate asking me to stop this and the only way I think I am going to is ban several people. And I am not in a hurry to do that. You know why? A fucking modicum of self control would solve this. Do me a favour, John, get that self control or you are on vacation, understand? That goes for you, too, Pr0zac. No more Mr. Nice Guy. I am pissed at the way you are both tearing apart my tech section. Damn it all to hell, just chill. I find it so hard to believe that 2 or 3 people can be so distructive. |
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 15:36
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| bogus | Re: What Is AFR And Why Do So Many People Like Them? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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locked at Tommy's request. and wisely so.
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Posted on: 2008/12/9 15:38
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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