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| rklessdriver | New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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AS&M built me a really nice peice. I'm really pleased with the build quality of my new TB, which should be good since it took them a month to build it.
[IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00970.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00969.jpg[/IMG] Now that I finally have it, all that's left is to get it on the car and re dyno it. After this dyno session, I'm pulling the intake manifold off and sending it to get ported and the plenmum entirely re-worked. As to how the car is running. It's running really well. I've had it on the dyno after I fixed the leaking POS Carbon rocker covers (I think I posted those pics earlier last month)with a new set of Moroso sheetmetal ones. During that work peroid I fooled around with flushing the gas out of the oil system, experminting with different oils and changing the rocker pre load adjustment. I found about 400-600RPM on my HP peak and over 30RWHP putting me up to 478RWHP@6400RPM... closer to what I'm looking for but still not quite. Keep in mind this is with no tuning, I'm still running the same tune Ed did for me earlier in the summer when it made a disapointing 440RWHP@5800RPM. And yes it is getting a bit rich on idle and about .5pt to 1pt leaner in the upper RPM range depending on how hard I turn it. Of course this is on 2 differnt dyno's (both Dyno Jets thou)so the HP gain might be more or less but the fact that its gaining HP at a higher RPM means I did the right thing. We'll see what this new TB gets me later this month. Hopefully after the intake work it'll go over 500RWHP when I have Ed re-tune it. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/16 23:17
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| 1989GTA | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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That is the one I'm using on my L98. It is a nice piece. I'm going to have to search about your motor. You have my curiosity up.
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Posted on: 2009/1/16 23:35
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| Matatk | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Very cool. Looking forward to the final numbers. AS&M makes nice pieces, but damn they are expensive.
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2009/1/16 23:37
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2002 EBM convertible, Magnusson supercharger, cam, headers, etc. 1989 Corvette...RIP |
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| 1989GTA | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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I just did some research but I don't know if you still having valve float problems. FWIW I'm also using a Mike Jones camshaft with the inverse radius and no problems. The camshaft is 228/228 with .576/.576 lift with 1.6 rockers. The springs are Manly beehive with 150 on the seat and I think 365 over the nose. Running stock lifters.
I spin the motor up to 6500rpm but afraid to go higher considering the power and the stock crankshaft and rods. That is the reason I'm building a new all forged 370 motor using a Dart SHP block. Going with the LS7 lifters. Will be going with a Mike Jones 233/233 camshaft based on the success with this one. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/17 0:10
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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No valve float problems... Turns out the lifters were bleeding down on me because the oil had gotten too diluted with gas from idling the car around on the stock tune.... Flushing the oil out a couple of times by running some really thin 0WT synthetic and then going back with my regular 15W40 oil solved the bleed down problem. Mikes cam will run no doubt about it. It was just a PITA to get the valve control side sorted with these 1.7 rockers. FYI, I think that Dart SHP block has taller lifter bores. If it's the block I'm thinking about, you have to run .325 tall lifters in them. Morel and Comp are the only people who make hyd roller bodies that tall. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/17 3:39
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| 1989GTA | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Thanks for the reply. Interesting on the diluted oil causing the problem. The Dart SHP block is based on the L98 motor and uses all the stock parts including the factory lifers and guide plates. The only difference is it uses a two piece seal crankshaft.
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Posted on: 2009/1/17 4:49
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| CentralCoaster | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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That's huge.
What year is your car? Does it have the thin plastic accordian duct, or a rubber one? Does it fit over the new TB? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/19 19:21
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| LT4BUD | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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IMHO matching the intake manifold to the throttle body is essential and doing a dyno before doing this is, is a waste of time, the air intake is still going to be limited by the ports on the intake manifold and worse yet I think you will encounter turbulance......my predication is you are likely to see a reduction in horsepower if you don't match.. FWIW I did enlarge the intake ports from 48 to 58mm when I put on the 58mm TB.. BTW it looks like you are doing a lot of things right, great hp you getting |
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Posted on: 2009/1/19 20:29
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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I get that a lot...  It is a 1992. It has the big rubber duct. I don't know if it'll fit or not. The stock duct fit the Pro Products 58mm I'm running right now, pretty good. We are getting snowed on today, and it has been cold as heck all week, so I haven't even taken it out to the car for a look see. There is always the  option.Once we get a half way warm day, I'll go put it on the car. I'm looking at a new place to dyno the car anyway and need a bit to check the guy out... last moron ran the car up against the rev limiter (7400rpm) for a couple of seconds before he let out of it, and I'm not going back there. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 2:58
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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LT4 BUD-
I guess you've never seen my intake before... here's a couple of pics [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/DSC00939.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/100_0340.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f303/rklessdriver/Corvette/100_0343.jpg[/IMG] My car has a single plane 2925 Eldebrock Super Victor converted to EFI, with a hand fabricated sheetmetal upper plenmum/TB adpater. I cut the opening on it for a mono blade from the start, but wanted to see what difference there is between a 58mm and mono blade on a motor like mine, for various reasons. The AS&M Mono Blade is well known for driveability problems and if I could make my HP goals without dealing with them, I wanted to do so. I only port matched the Eldebrock 2925 lower to the cyl heads, otherwise it is OTB port wise. The 2925 was a brand new desgin when I started this project and no one knew that they had a massive air speed problem in the plenmum until I was well on my way... The upper radius entry to the intake runner from the plenmum needs massive amounts of work to run properly on a big motor. My sheetmetal plenmum/TB adapter seems to only be making this air speed problem worse as the motor orginally lost a crap load of HP from the engine dyno (dyno'd with a carb) to the chassis dyno. Once I get a decent day to work on the car I'm going to do a little more testing with the new TB before I pull the intake off and have the plenmum enlarged and short side radius' re worked. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 3:21
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| 1989GTA | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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"The AS&M Mono Blade is well known for drive-ability problems and if I could make my HP goals without dealing with them, I wanted to do so."
I have zero drive-ability problems with my AS&M monoblade. Maybe the Yank SS3600 torque converter takes the edge off. I have the idle set at 775rpm. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 5:19
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| LT4BUD | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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OOPS! You are so correct...Sorry!! |
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 12:20
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| cuisinartvette | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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rkless are you referring to Ed?
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Posted on: 2009/1/20 15:41
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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GOD NO.
Ed did a great job on my car. In fact I'm still running the initial tune he did on the car when I was having problems. When I was sorting out my lifter bleed down problems, I took the car to a local Mustang and import tuner place that has a Dyno Jet because they were close by. Ed is a couple of hours south of me and its a a bit of toruble to drive a 3 hours just to make test pulls... At any rate I told the dip shit at the import place to turn it 6500rpm on the first pull, so I could get a good look at the AF ratio before I gave him the go ahead on further pulls... I tell him and the shop manager I got a bunch of $$$ in the motor and don't want to grenade it because the tune might be too far off now. I let himknow about all the lifter problems I was having and that I was sure I had most of it sorted now. I told him if everything looked OK to me on the AF ratio I'd let him turn it up on the NEXT pull... he says cool. He starts the pull and I hear the motor go about 6500rpm and then way past, it's freaking screaming... then I hear it bang the rev limiter for about 2 seconds before he lets out of it. "Sorry man I didn't expect it to accelerate that fast, what's the rev limiter set at anyway?" I told him not to worry about it and get my f'n Corvette off his dyno right now. Pretty much the end of those clowns ever even seeing my car again, even for something as simple as a $40 dyno pull. On top of that these fuck-o's are blabbing all around NOVA that my car has nearly 480RWHP, turns 8000RPM (which is BS as the rev limiter is set at 7400rpm) and not to get duped into running me.... I haven't even got my dyno sheet email from them yet but no matter as every street racer in the freakin area has already seen it. Like I said, I'm looking at checking out a local guy in Manassas VA. Rich (93ragtop on CF) is going to scope him out for me to see if he can be trusted. I'd like to have ED do every dyno pull it ever makes. I know I can trust him, he treated mine and the motor I built for Noland (blackharleyman on CF) real good, but he's just too far away for this incremental trouble shooting stuff on my car. Once I reach a point where the tune ED orginally did for me is not safe for the motor I'll have him re-do it. That's probally going to happen with this TB and re-worked intake. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 1:33
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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I'm encouraged by your success but I have had numerous others tell me very, very different. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 1:35
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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I could see that being true if it was oversized for the intake it was feeding. (Which people commonly do). Otherwise I don't believe it. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/21 2:16
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| AKS_Racing | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Let me throw a bit of fuel on this fire...
I am one of the many who have had problems with the AS&M MB. Plain and simple, the butterflys want to stay open when under WOT and serious load. This is a very bad situation in a boosted car, and there are numerous examples across the internet of this exact same issue. I actually have two AS&M MBs, and they both do the same. One now has additional spring wraps to allow the throttle to return (I was using an external spring, but this route is cleaner). If you get the MB past center open, they will close, it is just a matter of getting it back from full open (quite scary when I was first doing the tune). Both MBs have been sent back to AS&M with each re-aligned and properly set-up, but even AS&M acknowledges the issue. I also run more IAC than I would with the twin 58MM to aid in idle quality. As a side note, I ran back to back on the Mustang dyno with the MB, then the billet twin 58MM, and there was less than 0.3% (3 tenths of 1%) difference between the two. This is on a car that was producing right at 825WHP on the Mustang dyno. I chalk that up to meaasurement error. BTW, your intake / MB combo looks familiar... [IMG]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/AKS_Racing/100_0118.jpg[/IMG] Aaron |
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 2:50
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Aaron,
I'm thinking the power difference might be greater on a non forced induction engine that relys only on atmosphere and piston signal for it's air. Not to mention my 58mm is a Professional Products. The inlet area in front of the throtle blades is not shaped very well IMO. The IAC over run deal is not a big one for me. With my intake and cam overlap, I had to drill the throttle blades in the 58mm to make it idle right anyway... I'm anticipating the mono blade will bypass more air because it's vastly larger surface area so I shouldn't have to drill it but no big deal if I do. Hoping for a nice day to work on the car but they are calling for snow and nice cold temps again this weekend... Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 3:34
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| 1989GTA | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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I have had none of those issues with my setup. I'm currently running a modifed TPI 355 motor with 460 at the crank figuring 20% loss with the stalled auto. I have no experience with forced induction motors.
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 4:03
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| 1989GTA | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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"I ran back to back on the Mustang dyno with the MB, then the billet twin 58MM, and there was less than 0.3% (3 tenths of 1%) difference between the two."
Interesting because the LSx crowd keeps going to bigger and bigger throttle bodies and they keep making more power. I think they are up to 95mm now. |
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 6:00
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| AKS_Racing | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Will, You should not have to drill the MB, as you will find that the idle is very sensitive to the amount of gap on the throttle blade. You can adjust the IAC and just leave the throttle blade slightly cracked to get to your idle quality. I found when the "flap" is closed that the IAC has great difficulty in controlling the idle level steady. I have a minimum opening set in FAST, and the "flap" open a bit. This may be due to my cam as well. Best of luck with getting it installed and tuned properly. I am happy with mine now, it just took a bit of work. Aaron |
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 14:45
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| anesthes | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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On a speed density car the VE transitions will be too quick and often translate into part throttle and tip in problems. I've actually found the monoblade LSx throttle bodies to be a little better, however we're talking only an 80MM throttle body. The 4bbl with progressive linkage is best with a speed density application because you can run off idle and part throttle with your very small primaries and then the large secondaries for WOT. Motors with big cams need very little air at idle, and part throttle at low RPMs. Making a n/a motor run great from idle to 6500 RPM is a difficult task. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 17:35
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| anesthes | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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I had that problem with my holley 4bbl throttle body. Scared the crap out of me at the track. Which reminds me, I need a push button kill switch in my vette like I had in my firebird. Anyhow, I ended up putting a double spring on the linkage which resulted in a stupid firm pedal effort, but cured the sticking problem.. I'm sure it was the boost. (16psi). -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 17:41
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Well it was nice when I got home from work... Actually it was nice this morning so drove the Corvette to work. I love the "WTF Are U Driving" looks the sheeple in their Range Rovers at the stop lights give me....
Anyway, it was nice this evening, so I decided to swap TB's and see if it'd run or not. I swapped everything over (TPS&IAC) and sure enough the car started up and idles fine once I cracked the throttle blade idle screw a bout 1 turn from fully closed. No drill bits needed.  There is no tip in hesitation from idle just reving the car in neutral and the throttle blde returns to closed with no problems. I even turned it pretty hard a couple of time for the neighbors benifit....  The throttle cable cam is bigger on the AS&M and I'm going to have to re position my bracket to make it reach. If it don't rain and snow tomorrow like its forecasted to... maybe I'll take care of the linkage problem and take it for a drive. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/23 23:10
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| 1989GTA | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Good to hear that the TB is working good for you. I just went on another car club cruise of about 300 miles yesterday and the car runs very well with no problems. Maybe the problems are with the forced induction cars?
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Posted on: 2009/1/25 21:25
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| 85L98-84L83 | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Is that intake on a 350? 383? Must perform a little better than a crossfire or TPI huh? Is that engine all top end or is it good from a stop light? |
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Posted on: 2009/1/27 0:05
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85 vette - 3.54 gears,pulleys,160 stat,hypertech chip,K&N,no cat,B&B cat back,cut air lid,TB bypass,air pump elim pulley,air foil,Torque thrust II wheels,maaco paint job 84 vette - K&N,renegade,2 inch TB's,adustable fuel pressure to 15 psi,air pump e... |
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| rklessdriver | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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It's a 382 (383 if you like to round up) inch GENII LT1 based motor. The motor has a very flat TQ curve and a lot of it. With over 400ftlbs of TQ from 3500RPM to 6000RPM (and the fact it has over 300ftlbs as low as 2500RPM) the motor is pretty much good from anywhere considering the car is a 6spd. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/1/27 17:29
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| AKS_Racing | Re: New TB, Hopefully more HP | ||
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Some think that the C4SP will cause TQ issues, but I have nothing but positive results from mine as well. However, as a word of caution, most using the C4SP are larger cube engines.
Aaron |
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Posted on: 2009/1/28 14:28
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