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| bam | 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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Here are the things I have done so far. 1)ohm the plug wires, found one bad, read 10000, replaced wires with taylor wires. 2)Checked plugs, found one (NKG platnum) with cracked insulator, replaced all with regular autolite factory rated plugs. 3)Checked fuel pressure, 42 at idle, holds for about an hour before beginning to drop, after motor is started still good pressure. 4)Disconnect each injector (new bosch 111 from FIC) check to see if RPM drops, all cylinders drop same amount. 5)Clean throttle body, was very dirty, now very clean.
6)Check all connectors to computer, coil, coil module (also new), found the gray connector at the computer was lose, when you wiggled it the motor would miss, hesitate then die, bent the connectors inside and now that does not happen. 7)Attach timing light to each plug wire and watch for intermittent spark. Found plug wires 6 and 8 both have intermittent spark loss. You can see when the plug doesn't fire you can feel the car miss. Also at other times there is a very erratic spark it looks like several regular spark flashes then no flash then a half dozen flashes all at once. Here is the question, is this the opti (new GM Delphi installed 1yr ago) or could it be the coil, I installed new MSD coil with new opti? PS there are no codes. Also the plugs on the drivers side look lean, the ones on the pass side look rich? |
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 0:38
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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Bam - Welcome!
 You don't mention the overall vehicle mileage... also, the 92/93 are prone to a slightly uneven idle, if that is infact where you are experiencing the miss. I doubt it's the coil - why would it effect only 2 plugs? If anything, the cap sounds suspect to me. |
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 1:20
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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How many miles on the O2s?
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 1:23
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| jaa1992 | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Did you replace the cable from the opti to the connector on the passenger intake?
Is the miss only at idle? |
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 1:25
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Man thanks for all the replys! Ok first 108,000 mi. all stock motor, 6 spd. And yes it has always had a rough idle but the last 6 months there is a distinct miss that makes the whole car shake. At first it was only at idle (really hard to tell for sure at speeds above 1500rpm) but now the miss is worse and getting worse, it is now there from idle to 1500 rpm then it seems to go away and WOT it runs great.
Second I replaced the 02s about a month ago with new GM delphi units, made no difference. And 3rd no I did not replace the cable from the opti that runs along the side of the intake, I never knew that was where that connector went, though it must be obvious. Where can I get one? Any thoughts about the fact that plugs on the dr. side look lean and the pass side looks rich? I have thought it might be something going on with the computer? |
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 1:49
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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"Found plug wires 6 and 8 both have intermittent spark loss. You can see when the plug doesn't fire you can feel the car miss. Also at other times there is a very erratic spark it looks like several regular spark flashes then no flash then a half dozen flashes all at once."
That would have to be an opti problem. Just as likely it is the pigtail/harness that Jim mentioned, which is prone to problems from age and engine heat. |
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 2:11
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I have a problem with the pigtail failing... if it was, why only 2 cylinders?
I am about as sure I as can be that the problem is with the cap/rotor on the opti. I suspect the electronics are still ok, if not, codes 16 and 36 would be doing a number on your brain right now... enjoy the labour... it's so fun to change caps and rotors... |
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 22:13
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Does it only miss when it's hot?
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Posted on: 2010/9/11 23:20
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Tomorrow I'll go back and do the timing light test on all cylinders again and from the time the motor starts. I only tried it after it was hot, that is when the miss is really evident. I would say that when it is cold the miss is not there but it still does idle rough, of course it's always done that.
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Posted on: 2010/9/13 1:11
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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92/93 are prone to a poor idle... it's the nature of the batch fire injection.
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Posted on: 2010/9/13 2:03
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Senior Guru
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Ok a little more info. I ohmed all the new wires, including the coil, all check out good - 0 ohms. Then i hooked up the timing light again from the start. No miss at the beginning but after about 2-3 min, miss starts. Cylinders 1,3,2,4 nice steady even fire of the plug. But Cyls 6,8 very erratic spark its almost a constant firing, no even fire then rest then fire again but very sporadic bunches of fires then nothing. Cyls 5,7 nice even spark then miss, then some more even sparks and two or three misses, then back to normal, then more misses. The hotter the motor gets the worse it is, finally the whole car is shaking. Does that narrow the search down? Could it be the ICM? Is it the OPti, still no codes. Thanks for the help
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Posted on: 2010/9/14 0:13
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Think about this for a moment:
View the ignition system as a pyramid. At the bottom of the pyramid is the coil, coil wire and ICM. These effect all items equally. In the middle of the pyramid is the optispark. It effects all things, but can effect things individually. Finally, there are the wires and plugs. They are at the top of the pyramid because they are isolated to themselves. Meaning, that the wire to plug 1 should not have a cause/effect on plug 3, and so on. Now, analyzing what you have written, the problem seems to be with #6 and #8. What do you think would cause that? A plug or wire... or the opti. I still have a couple of questions: Have you reohmed the plug wires after they get warm? I know that could be hard, but... it would be worth seeing. I wonder if the plugs are bad... try swapping these 2 with #2 and #4... see if the problem moves. Otherwise, its a high voltage problem in the opti. This will NOT throw any codes. Only codes 16 or 36 will appear when there is a problem with the opti side, not the high voltage side. |
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Posted on: 2010/9/14 3:13
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Bam,
Any updates? |
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Posted on: 2010/9/18 6:05
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| ksphar | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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My 92 has a popping in the exhaust that has been there since I owned it. Thought it was a miss. No codes though. I did swap out my exhaust manifolds because they were cracked. Other than that, new exhaust, opti, plug wires, 02 sensors, injectors, adjusted valves, new ecm. Still pops in the exhaust at idle. Runs like a bat out of he11 though, so I have become convinced it is the batch fire causing it.
Just sounds like your car has a miss though when anyone else stands behind it and listens to it. Oh well! |
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Posted on: 2010/9/24 17:12
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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the exhaust pop is very normal on 92s... it's the nature of the first gen opti more than anything else.
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Posted on: 2010/9/24 17:44
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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I'm not sure,Andy. Put a MSD on and it will still do it. |
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Posted on: 2010/9/24 19:22
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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They had a TSB on the popping and it was blamed on the opti...
Mine does it too, and I have LTCC with a sealed DynaSpark... |
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Posted on: 2010/9/25 1:09
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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I searched for that one and never found it. BTW, mine seems to only do it in open loop. |
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Posted on: 2010/9/25 1:37
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Been on vacation! This week hope to remove the opti and open it up and look at the cap. Just took it out for a drive yesterday, miss worse than ever pretty much the whole car shakes after its fully warmed up, but still only at Idle, WOT it runs really hard, spins the 315s easy?! I'll get back and thanks for the comments.
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Posted on: 2010/9/26 22:01
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Who designed this piece of CRAP the LT1?? Almost have the water pump off, drained the block & the radiator still a quart of antifreeze runs all over the floor, motor, shoes when I remove the lower heater hose, then the thing has 6 bolts (no not metric but SAE, haha) when 4 would easily do. Plus one bolt is behind the power steering pump pulley another behind the idler pulley, just a few more hours I'll have the **** thing off and can start on the opti crap. Wish me luck.
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 1:53
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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I remove that damned pulley... it's such a pain.
Good luck, brah! I am feeling it with you... been there, done that, got the blood stained t-shirt. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 1:55
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| pianoguy | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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If you think that's fun, wait until you get to the balancer pulley ;-)
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 3:11
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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oooh... I find the pulley isn't that bad, but to make it easier, put some anti-sieze on it when you re-install it. Don't forget to make a mark so you can put it back on in the right location!
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 4:34
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yep, with antisieze, I can pull mine off just by wiggling it. It's not necessary to mark the pully, it only gors on one way (one nolt gole is offset). Anyone who has an LT1 and works on it has to have a puller/installer for the p/s pully. They only cost $24. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 12:44
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| JAKEJR | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Another thought on the mis is even the tinest exhaust leak. My 415 L98 had a pin-hole in the header tube above #5 and even though it was ONLY A PIN HOLE, it caused a mis and change in idle quality.
Just a thought. Jake |
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 13:48
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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O man fortunately the last time I had the opti crap off I covered that balancer with anti antisieze, hopefully now I reap the benefit and the thing will fall off by itself, haha! Jake interesting comment about the exhaust leak, how did you ever find that tiny hole? I have stock manifolds so I don't think that is it, also I am pretty sure I have opti problems with the 5,7,6,8 spark issues, may have something else too, never know for sure with these cars. I can tell you if these cars didn't look so good, it would be long gone. Going out this morning to see what more damage I can do.
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 14:17
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| teebee | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Well, what you describe sounds very much like the problem I had with my 94. I chased it for months, until I found it. I had ruled out the possibility of it being the Opti as it only had about 2500 miles on it (new GM opti). After I could not chase down the cause of the miss, which got continually worse, I took it to a mechanic. Within an hour he had found that the optispark cap was arcing all over the inside. My 2500 mile opti was a POS....I bought an MSD had it installed, problem solved.
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Posted on: 2010/10/2 14:31
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Well I still don't have the balancer off. I covered it with antisieze but it's stuck like glue. Got it moved a "little" with my puller but now I remember that I have to move the steering rack to get it all the way off. Tomorrow I am going to see if I can make the arms on my puller a little shorter so I don't have to move the rack, its slow goin.
By the way anyone know how to keep hoses from sticking? The ones I took off are new as of last year yet they absolutely would not budge. Would a little antisieze work or would that make it leak? Teebee I hope the problem you had is mine at least then I will know what it is. Did you find out what made all the tracking inside the cap, was it the fault of the GM cap, did you run a high perf. coil? I have seen lots of guys have problems with the MSD unit too, glad yours is working good. If my opti is crap, I thing I will go with the MSD though. Seems like since spring my vett has been on jack stands 90% of the time!***!!?? bummmer |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 1:18
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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I am confused. Neither antiseize nor a puller are necessary at this point. Just leave the hub alone and take off the 3 bolts that hold the pulley/damper to it. Then knock the pulley/damper off of the hub. Use anitseize when going back together. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 1:54
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yea, I'm with Andy here, the hub doesn't need to come off ( and if you need to pull the hub at some later time, just bolting a puller to the 3 holes and putting the screw into the crank end won't work, http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules/ ... id=119118#forumpost119118 ). Anyway, to remove the pully from the hub, take out the 3 bolts, get under the car with a long wood dowel, 1/2 drive extension, pipe. Put it up against the balancer right up against the hub, not on the outer edge of the balancer and give it a wack with a hammer, move to the other side of the motor, repeat. Tghe balancer should come off with 3 or 4 wacks on each side. Antisieze on the hub surface where the 3 bolt holes are on reassembly. You do not have to move the rack to get the balancer off amd you don't have to move it to get the hub off either, just remove the fluid line to get clearance for the puller. To make your hoses easier to remove, spray some WD40 on your finger and wipe the inside of the hose when you put it on, the WD will dry but leave a light film the will make it easier to pull the hose the next time, I've been doing it for years. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 13:51
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Also, this is a hose removal tool, two bucks at Harbor Freight.
Attach file:  881_4b098135efad5.jpg (0.00 KB) |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 13:55
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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oopsie... I may have accidently confused you, bam.
What they said... remove the three bolts that hold the balancer to the hub and then whack the balancer off. Get under the car with a 2x4 and a largish hammer. Pick a side and put the 2x4 on the balancer, hit with hammer, swap sides (left or right of the engine itself), and whack again... it may take a few shots, to walk if off, but this should do it. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 17:31
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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I wish you guys were right about the balancer but I have had it off before, it won't come with simply tapping! Last time I hammered until the piece of wood split in to splinters, the balancer didn't move, this time I tried it again and it's not moving, hard to believe but true. When I get it off I am going to sand the press fit part where it "slides" over the hub and hopefully open it up a tiny bit, believe me on my car it's a very tight press fit, it does not slide on or off.
Thanks for the idea about WD40 on the hose. I tried sliding a screwdriver under the hose and still a chunk of it stuck to the water pump. By the way I know the hub doesn't have to come off, its the balancer that needs to come off, I am talking about the BALANCER, I never said anything about the hub :-)!! |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 17:33
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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ah... sorry... as soon as we saw "puller" we musta jumped to conclusions.
hit the area with PB Blaster. That's a great penatrating oil. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 17:43
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Then there's an inconsistency from the factory on that interface. The balancer fit onto the hub should spin freely by hand to line up the bolt holes). If mine was like that, I'd use a half round file on the balancer I.D. until it was free, faster than sanding. And material removal there won't affect the balance. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 17:48
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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uh, bill... "maretial"??? dude... now you're scaring me... "material"!
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 17:56
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Yea, well, forgot to hit the spell check. Forgive me, I just got back from grocery shopping at Walmart, all the good lookin' women there must have scrambled my brain.  |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 18:01
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| pianoguy | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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 Some folks have reported success with soaking the balancer mating surface area with PB Blaster, loosening the 3 balancer bolts (not removing them) and then running the engine briefly with the belt attached. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/4 18:09
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Thanks for all the advice about the balancer, I simply forgot the PB blaster, stuff is good. Anyway it's finally off, it was VERY tight all the way off. I sanded the inside of the balancer and it slides on and off with ease now!!!You would not believe all the rust on that thing.
Now to the opti, it is full of rust and crud. The terminals on the cap are covered with oxidation (I guess that's the right term) and a bunch of the oxidation has come off something and the opti is full of it, little chunks of it everywhere. I decided to to ahead and get a new MSD vented unit for my 93 and hopefully that will keep the moisture down. The opti that is on there now I got off fleabay for $150, supposed to of been NOS GM, it even had the GM label on it so must of been true but it was in a plastic bag which made me wonder if it was really new. Anyway hope this is my fix, never know with these cars, have to keep my fingers crossed. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/6 1:46
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| bogus | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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That sure would do it!
I don't blame you for swapping optis. I would check the waterpump... make sure it isn't leaking. I updated my cooling system to the 1996 waterpump, this allows for both heater hoses to come off the pump and elminate that stupid T on the upper radiator hose. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/6 2:46
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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You won't be sorry. It won't keep the moisture down, it will eliminate it. You're the second guy here with the $150 problems. Anyway, when you get the MSD, hook up the vacuum line on the bottom od the opti and put the clamp on before you bolt it up to the block, much easier to do it before it's installed. My MSD's been wet (not soaked) at least 5 times from washing down the motor, no problens. Here's what mine looked like inside after 10k miles and note post #18, this is where I teed in the vacuum line for the MDS. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/6 13:01
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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I replaced my water pump with the opti last year with a new GM unit, it still looks good so I think I will reuse it. I have heard of people putting a hose on the weep hole, what exactly is the weep hole there for? If my water pump was leaking (I really don't think it is) where would I look for a leak?
Last year I put in a new crank seal, it was leaking pretty bad, nice to see it looking dry down there now  My new opti is supposed to be here tomorrow! |
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Posted on: 2010/10/7 1:19
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| BillH | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
The hole's on the bottom, it lets water out if the water gets by the seal. If the w.p leaks, coolant will be on top of the opti. Your current pump's fine, reuse it. The drain hose is totally unnecessary with the MSD. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/7 1:59
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Senior Guru
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Ok, thanks I'll leave the WP as is. Today I got the new opti on, sure looks good, hate to cover it up with the WP
 . Auto parts store doesn't have the WP gaskets, should be here tomorrow, hope to start it soon. I gotta tell you how nice the MSD unit is. It's really well built, comes with the vent tube and new wire that runs up to the connector at the manifold, it does away with the dumb reverse torx screws plus it's not much more than the GM unit. I just hope it runs as good as it looks. |
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Posted on: 2010/10/8 1:26
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| bam | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Senior Guru
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IT'S FIXED!!! Finally got it all back together after cross threading that bolt behind the PS pulley for the water pump so I had to buy a thread chaser and chase the threads. Man my vett runs better that it has all summer. The miss is gone, no more intermittent spark flashes on 6 & 8!! And the car runs great at 900 - 1200rpm, used to run terrible thru that range. I never got a code on this but it must of been the opti, glad I went with the MSD, the venting hopefully will eliminate the moisture which killed the GM unit I installed last year. Thanks guys for the support, it's good to know your not alone on things like this
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Posted on: 2010/10/14 2:34
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| Matatk | Re: 93 LT1 intermittent miss | ||
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Webmaster
 
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Glad you got it resolved and thanks for the update on your solution!
Matthew |
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Posted on: 2010/10/14 3:16
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