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| pianoguy | Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I've seen threads about using distilled or deionized water, but how about purified water from an RO system? I know it's made a world of difference in our coffee maker and steam iron.
As an aside, if you don't have one of these systems for your drinking water, I highly recommend them. We have crappy hard water here, and I swear, now if I take a drink out of the regular taps, it tastes like bong water by comparison. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/9 21:53
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| MK 82 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I have an RO system also. It should be fine in your car.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 0:04
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| pianoguy | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Thanks! I figured I may as well use something I already have, if it'll work.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 0:18
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| Notorious | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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So what's wrong with bong water? At least it's a buzz when your stash is gone. Just kidding! That was a lonnnnnng time ago....
 Don't do drugs, kiddies! Distilled water is cheap and I certainly don't mind buying it for my cars. But I'd be interested in knowing more about this, from a scientific standpoint explained for us dummies. I'm also interested in this as for what it does for drinking water. Although I have a 300' deep well that provides water that tastes as good as from a mountain stream, (which it probably comes from since I'm in the foothills) I've never had it tested. I do run it through a basic filter but nothing fancy. So for both my cars and me, what potential hazards does a system like this eliminate? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 0:20
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| MK 82 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Check Wikopedia for Reverse Osmosis for a start. Think of it as an incredibly fine filter.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 0:36
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| pianoguy | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Good stuff at wikipedia, much better than I could 'splain it ;-)
I found it interesting that it is used in boilers to keep crud from building up in the system. Good enough for me  |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 1:07
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| bogus | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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RO uses a plastic filter sheet that captures impuraties... again, wikipedia can explain better than I can.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 1:43
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Go for it. Less dissolved solids the better.
Just don't use softened water in there! |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 10:57
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| Notorious | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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After reading about it, I would agree that it should be at least equal to distilled water for this purpose. I may have to look into one of these systems.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 15:13
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| pianoguy | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
After reading about it, I would agree that it should be at least equal to distilled water for this purpose. I may have to look into one of these systems. I bought mine from Culligan when we replaced our water softener, but you can get a do-it-yourself kit much cheaper from one of the big-box home-improvement stores. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 16:53
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| pappyfreebird | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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my ony question is??? whats wrong wid bong water ???? wahahahaha :thumbleft: sarry gave it all up 20+ yrs ago ...but ain sayun i dont miss it...i jus like livin n being free....hey somebody pass the microdot
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 18:11
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| pianoguy | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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LOL!
One way you can get a rough idea of the purity of your water is to look at your ice cubes. Ours used to be solid grayish-white, and now the outer 1/4" or so is clear, and the inner portion is not nearly as cloudy. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 18:15
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| pappyfreebird | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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i hear ya piannaman ... i have hard water here...i like it myself ..but itll leave lime deposits bigtime...but im in lil austin n we still have real good water...so they say...yer right with the better water fer raditor though...i kin see where my tap would crust up...something to keep in mind with a flush comming in spring...ifn frikkon spring ever gits here
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 18:29
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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[size=20:2845364be4]NNNOOOOOOOO[/size:2845364be4]
do not Drink Distilled or Deionized water!!! Water WANTS to be contaminated. So it absorbs minerals even if it means getting them from your digestive system. This one guy thought he was doing a great thing by making his morning coffee with 'pure' water from the Dei system. The guy got sicker and sicker and no one could figure out what was wrong with him. He was in essence removing the needed minerals from his body by drinking that bad Coffee. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 22:38
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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As far as using one or the other. It makes no difference in your Coolant system. What is important is that you do not choose tap water.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 22:40
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| jsup | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I use distilled, a $1 a gallon costs $2 to fill my system with the green antifreeze and distilled water.
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 23:10
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Check Wikopedia for Reverse Osmosis for a start. Think of it as an incredibly fine filter. Reverse osmosis is only good down to about the 3 micron level. This means that any particulate under three Microns will get through the Membrane Great for drinking, awful for Electrolysis. Meaning OK for the coffee maker bad for the Iron and the coolant system of a car. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/10 23:15
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| Notorious | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
The system I'm looking at removes it down to the .0001 micron level. Quite a discrepancy from the 3 micron level you mention. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 2:16
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| Subman | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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FWIW - RO water will search out and pull minerals from where ever it can find them - copper, tin, lead, brass, iron are the most readily available in any water system other than PVC. I only know this because I had to replace the entire copper water line(s) to 2 new multi million dollar printing presses with PVC. The copper connections (solder) were the first to go, a little bit at a time, then - wham - major water leak on the roof.
Filtered water from the fridge or Home Depot cartridge type would probably work just fine, but R.O. will f/u the entire cooling system. My $0.02 - Good Luck Subman |
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 5:38
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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RO or DI or distilled water isn't as good for you, and sometimes it doesn't taste as good either. But tap in some places is terrible, like here.
So I just use a brita filter (charcoal) that helps with taste and gets the chunks out. Distilled/DI will leach the minerals out of you, while tap will give you minerals. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 5:40
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| pianoguy | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Sounds like there is a range of opinions on the use in a cooling system. I stumbled on this article that mentions it:
http://www.lytron.com/ToolsTechRefere ... nNotesDetail.aspx?id=1116 |
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 14:24
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| Strick | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Any idea what is a safe range in ph for water in a cooling system? My well water is 6.8 which is a little acidic. I use distilled water from Food Lion.
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Posted on: 2008/2/11 23:36
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92 LT1, 6 speed, 3.54 rear, headers, B&B catback, Hurst shifter, polished ZR1 5 spoke wheels, Meziere electric water pump, other mods. |
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I expect it would pick up pH as it leeches minerals from the system. The antifreeze is suppose to keep it from supporting corrosion, but using distilled gives it a good headstart.
Here's a quick summary from the American Society of Plumbing Engineers, the authority on the subject. I happened to be doing some research today on it: Distilled = demineralized, deionized, and biopure, very low conductivity Reverse Osmosis = extremely biopure, a few more dissolved minerals and ions than distilled, low conductivity Deionized = demineralized, deionized, not biopure at all (actually tends to have more microorganisms than tap!), very low conductivity In short, any of them are good for your cooling system, none of them area really great for drinking. I use distilled because it's readily available. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/12 1:35
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Quote: Sorry, I guess they've increased the level since I last looked into it. It has only been 16 years or so, forgive?? "In the water treatment industry there is a chart of types of contaminants, their sizes and which ones pass through the various types of membranes.[1] Membrane pore sizes can vary from 1 to 50,000 angstroms depending on filter type. "Particle filtration" removes particles of 10,000 angstroms or larger. Microfiltration removes particles of 500 angstroms or larger. "Ultrafiltration" removes particles of roughly 30 angstroms or larger. "Nanofiltration" removes particles of 10 angstroms or larger. Reverse osmosis is in the final category of membrane filtration, "Hyperfiltration", and removes particles larger than 1 angstrom." 1 angstrom is equal to .0001 micron. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/12 17:22
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Yeah, and the flow out of your kitchen faucet is about as strong as a moquito taking a piss!
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Posted on: 2008/2/12 17:28
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| Skidmarks | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Quote: I used to design RO systems for use in the pharmiceutical industry. It is PURE water. Then everything is piped through 316 stainless steel so to reduce the possiblility of the RO water absorbing impurities. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/12 17:47
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Yup, if you pump RO far enough, it's no longer pure. Do you ever use glass pipes, or pvc pipes?
Also, RO doesn't seem to remove weak ions. I presume this means H+ and OH- also? Distilling does this a little better, which is what gives you the lower pH values. RO is very slightly acidic also. I wonder how many wise ass homeowners have put RO systems in their garage, only to have it run through the water heater and all the copper/brass in their home. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/12 17:54
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Yeah, and the flow out of your kitchen faucet is about as strong as a moquito taking a piss! What is it, like 6 psi out of the tap?? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/12 18:59
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| TommyT-Bone | Re: Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I swear, now if I take a drink out of the regular taps, it tastes like bong water by comparison. And you know this; How ? |
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Posted on: 2008/2/12 19:41
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| pappyfreebird | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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so in other words .. i am nawt to filter toilet water wid toilet paper anymo? i rekon i did read somewhere that it stunts yer growth n can cause severe miss spelling etc
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 0:43
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| Slrvette | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Since i am a "water guy" I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here and give you my opinion. I install and sell water systems for hemodialysis use in the Northeast and am quite familiar with RO and DI. To give you and idea of how dialysis works once you remove all the "impurities" out of the water it then acts as a magnet sort of speak. When passed through a dialyzer , blood is passing through the other side. The only thing seperating the two is a membrane that has tiny pores that only bacteria can pass through. Blood cells are two large. Anyways since pure water acts as a magnet it pulls the bacteria from a persons blood through a membrane. Since thats out of the way....
Would I use RO or DI in the coolant system? NO WAY... why? whats your block and internals made out of? Metal... metal will leach into the water because the water is "pure".... in turn it will create havic and damage to your engine. All metals will leach into the water guranteed! RO water is not as pure as DI.. RO will remove up to 99% of all impurities while DI water is "perfect" water at 18 meg. For this reason is why I don't use car washes.... they use either RO or DI and with enough washs will eventually ruin the paint... believe it or not. Best thing to use is soften water with a carbon filter pre... www.qualitywatersolutions.com sorry had to do it for an explantion of Reverse Osmosis you can go here http://e-watersystems.com/faq.htm never thought I could plug my ownsite on a corvette forum! |
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 3:45
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| Slrvette | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Deionized water is read as Resistivety not conductivity.. Reverse Osmosis is fine for drinking a very healthy for you. Much more than bottled water.. The theory is that it still leaves some minerals in the water and a person can not consume enough to harm them. It would take a lot of drinking RO to even begin to effect a person. Now DI or Distilled your absolutely right... not a good idea to drink. By the way if your pH is 6.8 going into the RO it will be the same coming out. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 3:56
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| Skidmarks | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I've seen HOT DI water used as a degreaser for some metal finishing operations. Whether that's good or bad circulating through your engine block and radiator, I don't know.
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 16:21
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Yes but if you add a DC power supply to already contaminated (Tap) water then you have increased the rate of metal deterioration 10 fold. You bring up a good point about the water wanting to absorb what it contacts, but you are overlooking the Electrolysis that occurs with a liquid that has very little resistance. so the closer you are to pure the Higher the resistivity of that water the lower the rate the metal will dissolve into said water. absolute is what science is always after, The closer to absolute the better in many many cases. However as we figure out how to magnify and inspect we get a better understanding of what absolute is. My point is this, You are right with your point, the metal will dissolve into pure water. But is that rate of dissolution greater or lesser than it would be with a water that is highly conductive coupled with a 12v DC charge constantly running through it? you made Very Very good post. that is thought provoking. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 16:38
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Deionized water is read as Resistivety not conductivity.. Semantics. Low conductivity = high resistance. They are inverse of each other. Pure water will dissolve your metals. Mineral water will cause galvanic corrosion. You can't win. That's why we add 40% ethylene glycol. It isn't there just for the freeze/boil protection! Personally I think the galvanic corrosion is a bigger issue. The aluminum intake on mine corroded to the iron head and allowed coolant to leak into the engine on my car. Proper coolant maintenance and driving the car regularly will prevent this from ever happening. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 18:06
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| pappyfreebird | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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this must be why the ol calls me absolute!!! cause i r good!!! oh fug !! wait a minute ... i bet it were obsolete!!! aw fug it who really cares
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 18:36
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Most of the head gasket problems are at #7 and occurred well before 50,000 miles. Yours may have been repaired at some time. GM's Bulletin tied the problem to misaligned intake gaskets which led to galvanic corrosion, which eventually eroded the head gasket (and plugged up everything else). Their solution was to counterbore the intake mounting holes for gasket retainers and current production, replacement heads, have this feature. Checking #7 is as simple as pulling the plug. Look for rust on the plug threads. phrases that sound real familiar to this topic. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 18:44
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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so the closer you are to pure the Higher the resistivity of that water the lower the rate the metal will dissolve into said water. Huh? Dissolving and galvanic corrosion are two seperate things. Pure water (agressive water) will absorb more metals, not less. It won't stay pure for long. Distilled water has to be stored in plastic or glass or tin for that reason. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 18:59
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| Slrvette | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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[quote="CentralCoaster"]Quote:
Deionized water is read as Resistivety not conductivity.. Let me rephrase the point I was trying make. Deionized water is typically monitored as resistivity not conductivity. Thats and industry standard. I'm not saying you can't measure the quality of the water using conductivity or even TDS for that matter. Resisitivity, imo is an easier unit of measure. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/13 20:38
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
Quote: Yes, when comparing regular water to Pure water sitting in a bucket NOW Take two samples and add a 12 volt DC charge and see which one will dissolve metal faster....Electrolysis is the topic. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 1:26
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I think we're saying the same thing, in different ways.
The effects of galvanic corrosion by tap water are far worse than the effects of acidic distilled water eating the metals. But what does the 12V dc charge have to do with anything? That won't happen. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 1:43
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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The 12 volt DC charge is the battery and electrical system hooked up to your car.
Once that current is flowing in one direction or the other things are going to dissolve and or plate. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 6:51
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Yeah but your positive battery terminals isn't hooked up to your radiator.
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 16:50
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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I am starting to wonder about you.
The whole system is charged electrically with all connected metals (including the radiator) being a ground. The positive has these things called wires that have insulation around them to carry the positive charge  If I wanted to Electro plate something I would put some sort of metal in a tank and inside that tank I would have a Cathode and an Anode. Depending on the polarity I would be dissolving one metal and the those particles would run to the other side of the charge and stick. So the whole Motor being used as a Grounding platform and attached to the frame is One side and the power we use (12 v DC) is the other side. That current is traveling through the frame/Motor to complete the circuit and unfortunately for us a side effect is a mini Electrolysis tank inside the block. How is this part of the discussion today? If we have a very conductive water in the cooling system, we are dissolving metals.....from one side or the other......faster than if we have a water with a high resistivity. Your messing with me aren't you? I get it now.....ha ha, mess with the geek |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 17:27
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| pappyfreebird | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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i dont mess with greeks....but i did do a anna dode once!!!
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 19:25
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Yes those electrons are passing from the engine/frame into the 12V side of the battery, via resistive loads which in turn powers the electrical parts.
But they use battery cables and electrical wiring for a reason, because they are low resistance. This means more voltage potential across the intended load and less across the wiring and conductors in between, like the engine for example. Put a volt meter between any ground circuit on the car and the engine block, and the voltage difference will be virtually zero, it won't be measurable. So I don't see your point. The coolant has so much contact with the engine block that it will have the same voltage as the block, not counting electromotive forces caused solely by dissimilar metals. The electrical system will have virtually zero impact on voltages in the cooling system, IMO. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 20:15
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| jsup | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Quote:
You didn't. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 20:38
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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Because the Block is ground......Why would a Ground and the block be different?
A circuit needs two things. A Positive and a Negative to be complete. We use a wire to carry the positive current and we use the Frame/Block to carry the Negative. If you trace the ground wire from your headlight back, it does not go to the Ground cable of the battery, It goes far enough to tie into the frame or some other connected current carrying piece of metal that is in turn connected to the Frame/block. You're headlight has three wires on it. One for low beam one for High beam and one for ground. We only need to run ONE wire from the battery for each beam....the ground return is the Block. Old School lights on Motorcycles etc will only give you one wire for a light, they expect you to bolt that light to something metal which in turn is hooked to the frame/block. They started having issues when the started making little ad on lights out of plastic. The entire wiring harness mainly consist of positive wires that are Dependant on the ground side coming from the block where the Ground cable is attached. Where is the Grounding point for the cable? Under the Transmission bolt on about 10: oclock on the drivers side...what did they call it P10 or P11 ground? Now, check the voltage you get of you hook your fluke up to the battery Positive and then then other side to the Block.....12v? That current is traveling thought the entire block which includes the coolant system. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 20:44
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| jhammons01 | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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You're trying to say that there is no Anode/Cathode relationship within the block.
On its own that makes sense. But the return power, in the circuit, where does + become - ? at the light? at the cable? the current is still flowing after the light bulb has used some of the power to emit photons. That current is flowing though the frame/block and therefore the coolant is subject to electrolysis. Again, a side effect. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 20:51
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| CentralCoaster | RE:Reverse-osmosis purified water in cooling system? | ||
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The block and frame are a huge pile of electrons freely flowing. There isn't any measurable current across any part of it!
+ becomes - at the light, as you say. The light is 99.9% of the resistance in that circuit. If the conductor for the light was puny, like the thickness of a single hair, I'd agree, the resistance would cause heat as you started putting current through it. Think of your electrons as rubber duckies floating down the Colorado River, and your electrical load is the Hoover Dam. Think of the engine block as Lake Mead, chock full of electrons just sitting there. Now drop your rubber ducky in the middle of Lake Mead and see how strong the current is, how quickly does it float to the dam? It takes awhile, because the current is weak, and there's no voltage difference to drive it. All of your voltage drop is across the dam, the lake is flat. |
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Posted on: 2008/2/14 23:45
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