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| jsup | D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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I've been reading up a bit on the D36/44 debate.
Seems it goes both ways, and it's all anecdotal evidence. Nothing scientific. That's OK, there can't be anything scientific. If anyone within 100 miles of NYC has a D44, or just a bat wing, I'd be interested if the prices right. If I can pick something up cheap today, I'll take it and put it aside for when I need it. If I need it. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 13:36
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| Notorious | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Actually there's a plate that can be made to adapt the D44 differential to the D36 batwing. It also strengthens the entire assembly. I've got a drawing for it somewhere.
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 13:54
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Quote:
Is it just as effective, and cheaper? |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 14:16
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| bogus | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I don't know.
As for the debate vs. data. I have been around C4s for 8 years now. I have seen several D36s grenade - well, not in person, but in posts. I suspect the problem now is that all those exploded in 2000~2002 and the threads are gone from CF, but that established the trend. Now, you have people swapping them out before they blow. There was a spate of them on CF back in that time frame. They would break the case, the snout... it really didn't matter. They were just seriously fragile. Especially with DRs and more torque were applied. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 15:03
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Well, that's why I am keeping an eye open, if I get a deal, I'll take it. I can buy it for full price when it breaks.
I do think the fragility of D36s is overrated, but I see no harm in having parts in the event of a failure. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 15:05
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| Aboatguy | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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jsup
GM started with the d36 in the Manual and Auto C4s and then started using the D44s in maual cars so IMO the d36 has to be marginal otherwise the general would not have spent the $$$$ on the upgrade for the manual cars. Mike |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 16:22
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| 88BlackZ51 | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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You can always find them for sale, but the sellers certainly don't give them away.
You could stick with the D36, and if it blows then upgrade. If you look at both the D36, and the D44 next too each other in person. It's obvious which one is stronger! Do you ever plan on using slicks or drag radials? It's obviously that's in the shock that spits them out. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 17:28
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
Yeah, but they just added it to the cost. If I remember correctly the manual was a charged for upgrade, so I don't think it cost them much. I would suspect that they did it more as a means to aviod warranty claims. I have been offered to borrow a set of slicks for a run or two by one of the members here. Guess I'll wait till I get the D44 parts before I take him up on that. Just to be safe. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 17:39
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| bogus | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The manual was a no-cost option.
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 19:06
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| pr0zac | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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i have a case. but would need a new carrier and gears. Josh has a spool for sale...
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 21:44
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96 lt4. 357ci, 11:1, LE 226/232, LE2 LT4 heads, ported LT4 intake, EM Gladiator44, EM LT's, stock exhaust, NX kit. |
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Quote:
Hmmmmmm...... |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 22:32
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| AKS_Racing | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Guru
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I have broken more than my share of D44 cases (nasty when it happens). I have only broken one D36 (cause I knew I needed to change to the D44). My car was running in the 12s when I broke the D36 and broke several D44s in the 11s. I went to the cradle to tie the two sides and the ladder together (basically cradle the pinion area) and have yet to break another case. The car has dipped into the low 9s on slicks, and is still on the same D44 case (although the soft 60' time of 1.7x may be a contributing factor to the long life).
I have probably a half dozen D44s that I keep around because the big names contact me when they need a complete conversion. These conversions for DRM, and TPIS go for between $1700 and $2100 depending upon the gearing. The complete conversion includes the driveshaft, batwing, chunk and ladder. You should keep in mind that the earlier case tend to be beefier in the web area, but also only come with 3.08 gears (requires gear change for a ZF application), while the later have less beef, but come in 3.33, 3.45, and 3.54 ratio. Aaron |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 23:41
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
So if I can't find one cheap, I can get one from you when mine breaks? |
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Posted on: 2008/11/10 23:47
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| AKS_Racing | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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You can get one and an extra if you like. But, if you are anywhere near 600HP, it will be sooner rather than later. Aaron |
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Posted on: 2008/11/11 0:34
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Quote:
well, can't afford it now, pissed away about $15K over the past 3 months. I was hoping the trans would have held, I'll just go easy on it for the time being. Next October would be my guess...if it lasts that long. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/11 0:36
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| Aboatguy | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Senior Guru
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I donn't know whether this is a hiJack over not.... but Im interested in the details of your cradle.. At what power/shock level is the cradle recommend and how much ???? Have any pics? Mike |
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Posted on: 2008/11/11 1:17
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| anesthes | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Master Guru
 
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Whenever something bigger is available, people say the smaller one is junk and they all need the bigger one. I'm sure Dana36s, Dana44s, and lots of other rear ends break. The aluminum case can't help. I'd be surprised if jsup had enough traction and a hard enough hit to break one. Loose converter, 700R4, and street tires. Then again, not letting off under some serious wheel hop might be why they all break? -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/11/12 13:12
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| anesthes | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
A guy running 9s on a IRS is good enough for me. I often wonder why guys are turning corvettes into fbody's with the straight axle conversions. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/11/12 13:15
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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I'm with you. I think the durability issues are over rated. I'd like to throw slicks on there maybe twice a year, maybe it's not worth it... I'm afraid that will break it. I'm thinking if I come across one cheap, I'll put it aside. Otherwise, I'll do nothing unitl and if it breaks. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/12 13:17
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| flyboy | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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The sept. "Hot Rod" shows a Newman Car Creations bolt in vette dana 44 diff. assembly. "Substantially stronger", batwing, etc. c4 bolt in your choice of gears, $3195.00.
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Posted on: 2008/11/13 3:34
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'91coupe, LT4Hotcam, some other stuff. If it's too loud, you're too old. "He works on old cars, then junks 'em" |
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| jsup | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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Quote:
I have no desire to run into the 9s....so IRS should be good enough for me. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/13 3:42
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| anesthes | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
Depends on what you really want. I ran slicks for a season on my fbody and cut better ETs. I always liked to come through the traps at a faster MPH though and slower ET.. 1) because I can run faster without moving into the next bracket and needing a cage, 2) I felt it kept the drivetrain from exploding. At our IHRA track, 11.49 is the fastest you can go without a cage and all kinds of SFI crap. But if I can run 11.60s at 125-130mph all day that's plenty fun for me. With sticky tires you could probably turn 10s but is it worth breaking something every other weekend? that's how it was for me the 1 year I raced 'MOD'. I'll stick with 'quick street'.  -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/11/13 13:19
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| bogus | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The old question... How fast do you want to go? How much money have you got?
The corrallary is even better... cubic horsepower costs cubic dollars. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/13 13:56
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_________________
The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Senior Guru
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I thought racing on street tires was a complete waste of time, especially if you only get 4 runs in a night.
No matter how good I got, the car was inconsistent. I could launch the same 10x in a row and still burn the tires on half the runs, which is why I went to drag radials. I guess it all depends on the track, this one sucked, some guys were running 2.0x on slicks. I just don't understand the guys that spend so much time under the car and yet are content with a few runs at the track that aren't anywhere close to its potential. I think if it can't put all of its power down without breaking, then its more of a dyno queen. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/13 16:06
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| anesthes | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Master Guru
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Quote:
Drag radials are fine too, those still qualify as street tires in 'quick street' as they are DOT approved. Like the BFGs and so on, I'm saying not running tube slicks, or even the e/t slicks with the line in the middle. As far as launching, on a N/A car you might find yourself breaking loose cuz you are launching hard. On a FI car we come out of the gates like grandma, then hit it. A 1.80 60 foot on my fbody would net a high 11 at 120mph. I could come out like an animal and run a 13.5 at 120mph too with no traction. A slick might make the same car run 11.50, probably at around 118-119mph. I kinda would rather have the fast MPH than ET. Quote:
Maybe. When I ran 26x8.5 mickey thompsons I cut 1.60s with the standard and a ceramic clutch. I pulled 1.80s with BFG drag radials and normal street tires. Quote:
Hrmm. Depends my motor is too fast for the car - i.e, to legally race with slicks I'd need a cage, sfi restraints, and a scatter shield. None of which I'm willing to put into a car. If I could cut low 11s or high 10s all day without all those things, I'd spend money on a bulletproof rear and and a DS loop, but since I can't I'd rather run a crazy fast MPH and a moderate ET to keep me from having to make it a 'race car'. I could probably rip the blower off and run slicks to get the 'true potential' - but then I'd be a 12 second car at around 110-115mph with slicks and that's kinda lame. Slicks belong on fast cars. I guess my biggest gripe is the cage rule. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2008/11/13 19:34
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| dan0617 | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Senior Guru
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Surprised nobody mentioned gear ratio. It seems that most of the broken D36 rears had lower than 3.54 gears. Stick with the 3.07's or 3.54's and I think (opinion here) that the D36 will last a long time. Let the converter make up for the gear ratio with it's higher stall. Roll into it on launch and then launch harder and harder. If you have enough power and traction to start getting a 1.60 60' time I'd call that a good launch and not go any harder on the D36. Many people are running 2.0 60' traction limited. If you can get a 1.6 aluminum rear limited then call it good! I beat on mine on the street all the time, and it dead hooks even on the street with the 3.07 gears and Nitto drag radials. Only 2 weeks ago I went to the track for the first time and found out a dead hook for me is netting a 1.7 60' time. It might grenade tomorrow but till it does I'm not replacing it. I think that lower gears or launching with the spray would kill it, therefore I run the 3.07's (which probably help keep me from blowing the tires off and allows me to dead hook from a stop on the street and beat alot of cars making way more power than I) and I don't spray till just after I floor it.
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Posted on: 2008/11/14 16:05
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Elite Guru
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There is a D44 in the CF C4 parts sale section you might find interesting.
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Posted on: 2008/11/14 18:16
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2004 Vert. 475hp. Built by Vengeance Racing |
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| dan0617 | Re: D44, one eye open. | ||
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Senior Guru
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 And I had no desire to run in the 10's.....until I turned a low 11. Now I can't wait to run in the 10's. |
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Posted on: 2008/11/14 19:52
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´89 Vert, 383, 230/236 cam, AFR 195's, LT Headers, HSR intake, 2800 stall, Zex 200 shot, ET Street Radials, tune by me. Runs were with D36 3.07's. On spray, 10.55 @ 132.78, 1.55 60 ft. On motor, 12.08 @ 113.15, 1.66 60 ft. |
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