That 210 head is way too big for the stock tpi stuff @350ci.(port size, 1206 gasket etc.etc.). You will also want to look at having a chamber size around 56-58 cc. as to not lower the compression ratio, and around a 180cc. (if looking at used cylinder heads).
If you're not trying to mod it I would tear it down and have a machinist or a reputable cylinder head co. re-man your originals (if possible) or try and find some good used ones that have already been done.

mine has the: stupid/can't move around in sport seats so the laptop doesn't move..What you might want to consider is one of those elavated plastic tray/bases (cheap at best buy). It allows the processor fan to draw air in and on the bottom you can mount some foam/rubber.

Hey Steve, actually it's a little more involved than just the battery offset (as I described in my above post).

here is a typical cal. chart for the 30lb ev6:

M-9593-BB302 Calibration Summary
Target Injection Pressure = 39.15 psid (delta)
(all injector flow rates are quoted at a delta pressure of 39.15 psi. To convert to a delta pressure of 43.5 psi, multiply flow rate by 1.054)
FNPW_LSCOMP FNPW_BKCOMP
Pressure Multiplier Pressure Multiplier
ALOSL (lb/s) 0.010023 (psid) (psid)
AHISL (lb/s) 0.008542 20.01 0.7149 20.01 0.7149
FUEL_BKPT (lb) 0.0000132400 30.02 0.9381 30.02 0.7704
MINPW (ms) 0.776 39.15 1.0000 39.15 1.0000
50.03 1.1890 50.03 1.0242
54.96 1.2331 54.96 1.0627
60.03 1.3339 60.03 1.0899
FNPW_OFFSET FNPW_HSCOMP FNPW_OFFCOMP
VBAT Voltage Offset Pressure Multiplier Pressure Multiplier
(volts) (ms) (psid) (psid)
6 3.366 20.01 0.7149 20.01 0.7149
8 2.044 30.02 0.8717 30.02 1.0056
10 1.440 39.15 1.0000 39.15 1.0000
11 1.240 50.03 1.1384 44.95 1.0689
12 1.083 54.96 1.1971 50.03 1.0926
13 0.950 60.03 1.2537 54.96 1.1035
14 0.824 60.03 1.1639
15 0.741

ALOSL "low" injector slope
AHISL "high" injector slope
FUEL_BKPT Fuel mass at which to switch from low to high injector slope
MINPW Minimum repeatable fuel pulsewidth at 39.15 psid
FNPW_LSCOMP Multiplier to low slope as a function of injection pressure in psid
FNPW_HSCOMP Multiplier to high slope as a function of injection pressure in psid
FNPW_BKCOMP Multiplier to FUEL_BKPT as a function of injection pressure in psid
FNPW_OFFSET Injector voltage offset as a function of battery voltage
FNPW_OFFCOMP Multiplier on FNPW_OFFSET as a function of injection pressure in psid

GM and Ford use different ways of describing the same physics/nonlinear flow characteristic of the same injector. The injector offset can be described as the intercept of the high slope with zero fuel mass or, as the point at which the injector really opens (where the low slope intercepts zero fuel mass). GM uses a short pulse adjustment to make up for the lack of a second injector slope at low masses. Translating from Ford to GM units and tables is not easy, but it’s necessary if you want to get idle airflow estimates right when tuning/calibrating.

Increasing pressure can be made to work, however, an increase in pressure also effects the both the opening delay and the nonlinear flow region of injection. For it to be done right, you have to adjust both the linear flow rate (high slope), and nonlinear characteristics (low slope, breakpoint, and offset) to compensate for these changes.

The way to create a comparison for the two types of inj.(and better understand) using the same flow rate, is to take the call. charts/offsets provided from ford racing, and using the data provided (by the OEM test lab), for both inj. It is then easy to plot the fuel mass delivered (basic geometry)v.s. injection time for each injector.

I personally don't know of any better data available than what the ford test lab has provided....if there is I am interested. There are some very real publications on all these tests and actually tuning for different injectors.
sorry for the long post.

Quote:
You're welcome...keep us updated, I would be interested in the LM-2 report.

Once in upper 140's and soaring is too lean, using a wide band I have seen 145 + start to go over 15:1+.

The problem you encountered is simple the ev6 (design III) delivers fuel mass differently (fuel mass v.s.injection time in m.s.). When comparing the ev1 (older style)to an ev6 of the same lb. rating, the fuel mass below 6 m.s. is quite a bit different...and not linear. Once above that they start to look similar (or somewhat linear). Unfortunately 0-6 ms. represents typical street driving. When vendors speak of flowing an injector, it only refers to what might simulate WOT, and not how much fuel mass is being delivered at lower m.s. or predicted pulse width....not to mention other various effects of slope gain, injection time to deliver the same amount of fuel, etc.etc.

They can be made to work well but requires extra work in the tune to compensate. Your old accels were an ev1 style, and the tables set-up in tune favor that style injector. I am not a fan of tuning through increasing or decreasing the f.p. Most injectors we use are designed to operate at 43.5 or 39.15 delta. That combined with the proper offsets (all available data for almost every injector has been supplied by ford racing) for a particular inj. is were I start and then I begin actually tuning....however if you raise the fp. to "fix" idle/off idle, once in higher/rpm load there's a very good chance that may not be right.

Bosch IMO has always made a great product, but remember that the ev6 style is designed for the newer motors. Aside from psi. used in newer motore, valve angle, injector distance from the valve etc.etc. also plays a role in the "whys" of how this inj. delivers fuel mass.

Many seem to think think that look of "fuel frothing/misting" in a tube means better atomization, performance or a better injector..it does not. The "spray patterns" were developed due to the type of engine design. Unfortunately ev1's are discontinued. Therefor, if one still wants to use a Bosch injector the option is to work with the ev6/new body design (this means giving the ecm more info than just the offsets and linear flow rate), or perhaps find some new ev1's (old style). IMO, since you don't want to retune the best approach would be to get an injector that works better with all the stock inputs in the tune (i.e. larger # rated inj.)

Either way data logging is the right thing to do..

Mike,
Sorry this took so long...I ended up looking at it this morning before work.
After reviewing the screen shots and the excel it appears that you are roughly at .915 (n.b. 02 m.v.), and I would consider that safe. However, entering wot could use a little more fuel (a tad lean I would add ae/pump shot, or at the table). Bank to bank the one side is a tick low/lean 878ish/915 and I would work that area a little more (add fuel). The timing hitting 38* up on top may cause a small amount of power loss instead of gains (not to mention potential detonation). When you actually dyno it you will probably end up around 34-36* max.
As to innovative lm2, since I believe you calibrated per their instructions, a couple of possibilities cone to mind. Possibly a pin hole leak at the bung weld,(leaks in general near the sensor), or the lm2 needs to be re-calibrated by innovative. Another test you can do is to clamp/install the 02 from the LM in the tail pipe. If the readings are still not lining up than I would contact Innovative and let them re-calibrate or check out the unit.
BTW...you don't need to wring out the rpm that hard for testing..LOL
hope this helps,
Mick

got it and the email..workin on reading it

no problem...pm sent

Quote:
I thought you were flashing the 96 ecm. The only 96's I have worked on have the 94-95 ecm like jonecaps.
I should be able to see enough from an excell doc.(a screen shot is too small of a piece of info). Providing of course the spread sheet shows rpm and the 02 mv. Not sure if my profile shows my email but if you want I can pm you and check it out tonight.

Quote:
Mike, I if I had to guess I would say yes. Skipping the track or wringing the motor out should wait until you know with certainty what is going on. If it is truely at 15+ @wot then that is way lean. I try to be around 12.7-13.0:1.

What are you using for datalogging? If I could look at your datalog wot run I could tell you more from the n.b. 02 m.v. numbers.

I calibrate it every time I put the sensor in the car. If, placed near the collector and there is any 02, or leaks, that will skew the numbers. If you feel that this is happening, clamp/place the 02 in the end of the tail pipe and re-test.

Data master and the like are great, however the AFR shown is a target number and is not accurate. Once a car has been tuned the target afr number @wot usually appears richer than actual afr.

Another thing you can look at to verify fueling direction are the narrow band 02 mv.numbers. 12.5:1 approx. equals .900 mv. While this is not the most accurate method of analysis of actual afr, it does offer a reference point.

Quote:

Once in upper 140's and soaring is too lean, using a wide band I have seen 145 + start to go over 15:1+.

The problem you encountered is simple the ev6 (design III) delivers fuel mass differently (fuel mass v.s.injection time in m.s.). When comparing the ev1 (older style)to an ev6 of the same lb. rating, the fuel mass below 6 m.s. is quite a bit different. Once above that they start to look similar. Unfortunately 0-6 ms. represents typical street driving. When vendors speak of flowing an injector, it only refers to what might simulate WOT, and not how much fuel mass is being delivered at lower m.s. or predicted pulse width....not to mention other various effects of slope gain, injection time to deliver the same amount of fuel, etc.etc.

They can be made to work well but requires extra work in the tune to compensate. Your old accels were an ev1 style, and the tables set-up in tune favor that style injector. I am not a fan of tuning through increasing or decreasing the f.p. Most injectors we use are designed to operate at 43.5 or 39.15 delta. That combined with the proper offsets (available from ford racing) for a particular inj. is were I start and then I begin actually tuning.

Bosch IMO has always made a great product, but one must remember that the ev6 style is designed for the newer motors. Valve angle, injector distance from the valve etc.etc. also plays a role in the "whys" of how this inj. delivers fuel. Many seem to think think that look of "fuel frothing/misting" in a tube means better atomization, performance or a better injector..it does not. The "spray patterns" were developed due to the type of engine design. Unfortunately ev1's are discontinued. Therefor, if one still wants to use a Bosch injector the option is to work with the ev6/new body design (this means giving the ecm more info than just the offset and linear flow rate), or perhaps find some new ev1's (old style).

To me, regarding performance the idea of "feel/sotp" means very little until all the data has been established. Feel does not always tell you if it is rich or lean..or how lean/rich it truly is.
You keep data logging, that is the right thing to do..

Thanks for the words guys and no problem Wayne.
Typically going that lean from a known good blm/fueling would indicate vac leaks or possible fuel delivery issues. Because I had him check for the latter, I think in Waynes case the aftermarket maf is calibrated differently. I have tuned others cars who had to replace the MAF (with a gm version), but I would only see a couple of point deviation and nothing of any huge significance. Bottom line in this case is that it's going too lean/edgy for my taste, and I don't want to see anyones motor get hurt.

Quote:
I'm not sure how you attained/read this value, but this is suspect. It sounds like intake temp (Manifold Air Temp.) not coolant temp. that you are reading. I would start there by checking if it set the code for mat sensor.

great job...I see the 60 is improving and naturally so are the times. The car is getting better and better.
congrats Josh !!
BTW..time for a new avitar

I have a real nice used set of Random Tech hi-flow cats. Cats only (no additional tubing like the above pic), 3" inlet 3" outlet, stainless, screen no ceramic puck...if anyones interested make me an offer.
Mick

Quote:
Thanks Andy,
I haven't been out in awhile, the largest pub crawl sounds good. I metioned to Ron before that when I do make it out there I wanted to get together with you and Kevin. It would be great to get together with everyone.
Mick

congrats...the car keeps getting better !! I'm sure it's going to be a rush on the hose.

holy crap..Josh you are quite welcome, for the most part I'm at a loss for words. All I can say is I really appreciate reading your post. Thanks !!

Over the last few years I have become friends with all you guys and if someone would have told me a few years back that some of my best friends I would have met from a forum, I would have not believed it. Since we share the same passion, talking hot rods with these guys has always been great and it is something I enjoy.

btw..Josh the beers are on you sounds good to me...and for all the info in putting mine on the hose.
Wayne, Thanks for the invite. I think that meetimg up with you guys at Carlisle next year sounds good..should be fun.

Thanks again ...Mick
wipe out 24..not forgotten

I have bought parts from these guys before:
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/spe ... _calibration_______va.htm

yes it is, I also use their micro edge +, and think they have a nice product line.
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/home.php?cat=62

Harris Speed Works makes some nice ones...mine:
[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/rlyvl3.jpg[/IMG]

I'm not familiar with jet dst but look for tables titled:
'IAC Idle RPM vs coolant' or add-ons such as 'IAC parameters idle speed in park nuetral' etc.

Quote:
feel free to explain what the stcker has to due with erasing and burning.

It is a stock prom, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been reprogrammed. Only one way to know for sure and that is to open it (through hardware/software) and compare it to a stock bin file.

You're very welcome, good to hear the new build blues are fixed.....I hate it when I have any leaks, as you know.

BTW, I thought that this is an excallant build thread and aside from the tech aspect of assembly, notating the prices puts it into better perspcetive for those that are considering a new motor and overall prices...very cool

Doing burn outs or getting the tire hot is a bit different with the drag radial slicks, or dot dr's. Overheating the tire with radial style tires is probably one of the biggest issues (next to air pressure), and once the tire is overheated they get greasy, or with the big powered cars to just go up in smoke off the line.
The biggest class racing around here nowdays are all the small tire classes (10.5", 10" and the 9" dr classes). Because of that they are spraying the track between running all the classes/rounds, and there is already enough bite on the track for the the drag radial dot tire cars (9" tire) to run mid 7's, and the 10.5 guys run mid 6's.
No one does 'bunny hops' or a quick spin after heating the tire ...no need to test or clean that way.

Quote:
that's a real easy fix, won't Alvin/Brian re -do it for you?

Bruno,
I thought you had a 6al in the car? If so put in the pill for rpm desired. I'm not a fan of cutting fuel and would rather cut spark as rev limiter but if concerned a fuel cut is better than nothing. What rpm were you planning on as a shift point? I would go approx. 100rpm above the shift point with approx. 75rpm difference.
Mick

Bruno,
the car looks great ....I'm sure it's fun to be driving again, instead of working on it.

Mick

Quote:
Bruno,
You are very welcome, and I'm glad to hear that it is running well.

To others who read about his project, including tunning a modded car it is important to note that without someone on the other end doing their part it cannot happen. I believe that a good tune can be attained long distance through acquiring good data. However, if the data is skewed through various inputs, no tunning in the world can make that right.

Bruno hung in there and went over various things that I suggested including sensors, leaks etc. to get his car right (just think what it must be like getting parts etc. where he lives !!). I commend his patience and all his efforts in making his project a reality....Great job!
btw I really like the new exhaust.
Mick

Steve,
if you need to add fuel globally "baby steps" there is good, and as long as you are monitoring controlling it should not be a problem. You can also lower the inj.constant from 42.10 to 41.9 which will give a similar global result but not as fine tuneable.(both methods will have an effect on dc). You might want to see if you have the table I mentioned earlier available in your bin, as it is specific to PE fueling percentage add-on.
Mick

Quote:
Depending on how much you change, those numbers they can create dramatic global changes.

80% is acceptable and I wouldn't consider that a problem.
However, assuming the inj. constant is set around 41.6-41.9 (for a 42#), and inj. pulse width v.s. battery offset add-ons are stock you can still lower the dc without re-tuning CL. There are a few ways that dc can be lowered, and if the tune is good I would tweak a table titled 'PE% change to afr vs. coolant' (depending on availability in the bin/hack). Increasing the percentage there and will lower your dc. from there you will need to tune wot again.

Quote:
absolutely is not a problem, and I don't forget those who helped me.........likewise, as many people that Pete has helped with trans issues is why so many will always try and return the favor.

that is what has made the forums cool places to begin with..IMO

Sounds you're making good progress...I'll bet you're happy to hear it fire up again.
Have you drove it yet?

Sorry to hear about the problem.
After the trans has been filled to the full line (hot) and the car the has been shut off the fluid on mine is about 1" or so above the full line.
However, on new set-ups I just put fluid to the full line (cold) and fill to were it is needed after the car has been started and warmed up.

I did not consider the 85 application, so that may not work for Beach's car. However they list 91-96 and mine is a 90.

C.C.,
I thought all the 12" were the same, are there differences in the 12" through the years?.

Bill, basically the pic I posted is what I sent them per their request.

Yea, I don't understand the "why" of it all aside from the fact of what the adhesive looks like. After I found the issue a google search provided many on other boards (miata, beemers and the like) have experienced the same issue. Many just removed the shim, and all was well, although several posts talked about their rotors getting sawed deeply from the shim before discovering the problem.
However, the rep. at hawk stated that I can just go ahead and remove the shim, but he said I paid for them to have shims, so there was no problem. They didn't once hem and haw about replacing them and he told I could do whatever I wanted with the old ones....of course I kept them. I can take a pic later of them (off the car, and the backs were the same way)..I haven't tried the new ones yet, maybe today or tommorrow...and am also getting ready to test the hose so I need to feel confident of the brakes.

If you need rotors these guys have NOS at a real good price
http://www.corvetterecycling.com/category_s/214.htm
When I did mine last year I bought mine from them and they were brand new oem in the original gm ac delco boxes.

the hawk pads are real good and a dramatic improvement however, I had a small issue with them (scroll down in c4 tech for the thread I started).
The combo is good enough without doing the strange or wilwood and will stop your car.

The best way would be to install a fitting that doesn't have the extra tube. I can't tell from the pic if that is a removable fitting, or if it is a solid metal tube with that fitting.
If solid tube, I would remove the tube, cut the nipple off and put a weld there, and repaint.
If it is a removable fitting in the line, Parker sells almost every type of fittings in different configurations. Their outlets also install all the 'crimp' style ends for hydraulics etc. that are like the OEM.

Thats right the shims are sliding off with less than 1 k miles !!
Hawk has sent me a new set, however under close inspection the adhesive they use looks only to be a double sided tape (the new set is done the same way). They claim they are epoxied and I can tell you this is not epoxy and can be dangerous.

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/9k8lsz.jpg[/IMG]

When using the stock length of the pick up/pump assembly, the bottom of the strainer is almost bottomed out on the yellow fuel "trough". Becuase of the width of that trough and pump positioning, when I pulled the original (with positioning mentioned earlier), the strainer was mashed up on the edge of the fuel trough. The other thing I noticed with mine was that when the guage shows 1/4 tank, and with the pump assembly pulled, the fuel was barely to the top edge of that fuel trough.

IMO, the teflon liquids/pastes are all pretty similar and pretty much give the same results. I have a few types here and see no difference. I have been using the using permatex version, locktite, ARP, and vibra tite (parker/earl), and I end up using the first one in reach.

Hey Steve, I remember that being discussed some time back on cf. I believe the fsm makes brief mention and stated to re-install the same way as removed.
On mine the original orientation was the long end being in the 2 o'clock position (approx.). I found that the strainer was then on the troff because of that positioning. I tried it a couple of ways and ended up going straight up and down. The pump I currently use is a huge bosch (335gph bar II)and because I had to mod the original pick up unit to attach it and get it in the tank, it's pretty much the only option.
mick

Quote:
why not ?...........lol
[IMG]http://i49.tinypic.com/2cxx0sk.jpg[/IMG]
WW7, the tag looks good

I have no idea who burned that, but you can open it and see what has been done when comparing to a stock bin file.
I can't imagine any "extra sensors" or inputs of that nature. The only things I would suspect you might see are things like AIR, VATS delete (possibly egr if removed etc.), increased timing, fan temps. and depending on the motor mods increased idle (both hot and cold) etc. As to timing , typically all tuneres will use the stock 6* reference timing @idle hot(w/est disconnected), all advance through the rpm v.s. load range is done in the main timing table in the tune/chip.

I remove that stuff as I have had problems with the lock-tite stuff that comes on factory replacement sensors (used in on an aluminum intake some time ago and when I removed the sensor it tried to take some of threads with it). I use liquid Teflon or the tape and haven't had any electrical or sensor issues.

The last time around I got tired of working with the stock lines making them fit everything/working around them and swapped them out for braided lines w/an fittings.

The tpis/march under drive pulleys work fine. I had originally bought the 3 pulley set and had them on the car for about 5 years w/no issues.
Electric w.pumps are good my only concern is if ever encountering alternator failure on a street car.