It always bugs the shit out of me when driving out to El Centro and I have to wait in line for an hour in the desert sun so I can answer questions about where I'm going, where I live, where I'm coming from, what my shoe size is, what's my favorite flavor of ice cream... In case you haven't driven across a border state since the Department of Homeland Security was formed... these aren't border crossings, they are just checkpoints that stop all traffic on Interstate highways within our borders, similar to a DUI checkpoint, except that there's no way around them. DUI checkpoints are at least required to give you notice and a way to bypass them. (Although they usually set up cops there to pull over anyone that bypasses it.):rolleyes:

So anyways... after idling in 95F heat, slipping the clutch on my Corvette inching along for the past few miles, I pull up to stop sign, the BP agent motions to put my window down...

"U.S. Border Patrol, can you state your citizenship please?

[I]United States[/I]

Where are you coming from sir?

[I]South.[/I]

Where are you going to?

[I]This way.[/I]

Where's that way?

[I]West.[/I]

Yeah but where to? But where do you... where are you going? Where are you going?

*pause*

Do you know where you're going?

[I]I know where I'm going.[/I]

Where are you going?

[I]I don't really want to talk to you about it[/I].

What was that? I can't hear you, you gotta lower your windows more, I can't hear anything you're saying. Where are you headed sir?

[I]I'm going west.[/I]

Ok, where's west?

[I][Highway] 78.[/I]

78, where, where... where to? Where are you headed sir? We could be here all day, or you could just answer a few, couple of simple questions sir.

[I]I am a U.S. citizen...
[/I]

I understand that sir.

[I]...and I don't see why...[/I]

I just need to know where you're going sir, that's it.

[I]I don't think you do.[/I]

I do.

[I]Do you?[/I]

Yes sir. Where are you coming from?

[I]I haven't crossed any borders...[/I]

That's okay. I don't know...

[I]...and I haven't broken any immigration laws...[/I]

I don't know that sir.

[I]...and I think your jurisdiction falls at that point.[/I]

I just have a few questions sir and if you answer them you can be on your way in about two seconds.

[I]I value my privacy.[/I]

Ok.

[I]It's my personal choice.[/I]

Where are you coming from? Can I see your I.D. to see if you're a U.S. citizen sir?

[I]Can you do that?[/I]

Yeah. I need to see your ID please.

[I]Did I do something wrong?[/I]

No sir. This is an immigration check sir.

[I]I understand that.[/I]

Okay so I just want to see... just want to make sure you're a U.S. citizen sir.

[I]Do you suspect that I'm not a U.S. citizen?[/I]

No sir.

[I]So why do you need to check it then?[/I]

Because I need to check it sir.

[I]But you don't suspect that I'm not a U.S. citizen?[/I]

I do suspect you.

[I]But you just said...[/I]

We could argue sir all day, or I could send you to secondary to check your I.D. sir. That's it, simple.

[I]I don't want to be sent to secondary.[/I]

You will be sent to secondary.

[I]Why?[/I]

Cause I'm telling you. Sir can you please go to secondary?

[I]What have I done?[/I]

Go to secondary sir.

[I]I really don't want to.[/I]

Sir, can you please go to secondary.

[I]Are they gonna search my car?[/I]

Sir please go to secondary.

[I]Are they gonna search my car?[/I]

Sir, can you go to secondary sir?

[I]I mean, I can, but I don't want to.[/I]

Sir, drive between these cones please.

[I]I don't understand the point of all this.[/I]

You just need to drive between these cones please.

[I]What is going on? I don't want to stop.[/I]

*2nd border patrol agent comes over to window*

"We're sending you to secondary between... [unclear]... your vehicle is going to be searched.

[I]Why? I don't consent, I don't want to be searched.[/I]

It's going to be a non-intrusive search, just go ahead and park over there, thank you.

[I]Do I have to consent to this?[/I]

I'll talk to you over there.

[I]Ok.[/I]

Just don't back up the line, please.

[I]But by pulling in there am I consenting to a search?[/I]

By pulling in there, you will... your vehicle will be searched.

[I]I do not wanna be searched.[/I]

It's going to be a non-intrusive search.

*pause*

I tell you what, pull in between those two white lanes, and then we'll park in between them in back of the machine.

[I]Ok.[/I]

Alright, this right here is a non-intrusive search. We search for anomalies in the vehicle. We don't need consent to search your vehicle when it's a non-intrusive search.

[I]Yeah, but I don't understand why. Why am I being searched?[/I]

Randomly selected sir. Randomly selected.

[I]Randomly selected?[/I]

Yes, that's right.

[I]...or is it because I refuse to answer his questions?[/I]

Well, I don't know what happened over there.

[I]He told me he was sending me here, because I didn't want to answer his questions.[/I]

Interesting.

[I]Maybe I misunderstood him, but I don't need to explain where I'm going and why I'm going...[/I]

You don't have to.

[I]I explained that I'm a citizen.[/I]

That's all he needs to know.

[I]And then he also told me he did not suspect me of being an illegal alien.[/I]

He said all that?

[I]And then later he changed his tune.[/I]

Ok, I'll go doublecheck what he's saying there.

[I]I think he just wanted me to answer his questions and he didn't like when I didn't.[/I]

No, you don't have to. All we need to know is what your status is, and anything other than that, if you don't want to answer... I'll go see why he wanted...

[I]Ok, I understand you're allowed to within a 100 miles of the border...[/I]

Yeah.

[I]...to stop and briefly question people and if you have a reasonable doubt...[/I]

Yeah.

[I]...that if they are an illegal alien then... I understand that's your jurisdiction.
[/I]

Correct.

[I]But beyond that, I don't know why I have to answer where I work and where I'm going.[/I]

Same here. I definitely agree with that.

[I]I mean, I come through here not often, but I don't want to wait in line for an hour so I can answer...[/I]

Ok, do you want to file a complaint or anything?

[I]I don't know, um... If you can resolve it...[/I]

I'll go talk to him, if that's what he was saying then... I'll go see.

[I]I mean, if everyone just does what they're supposed to do and nothing more, everything is faster.[/I]

Yeah. Anyways, is there anything else in here that we should be concerned about?

[I]No.[/I]

Do you give us consent to search the vehicle?

[I]No sir.[/I]

Non-intrusively?

[I]If you're asking me, no.[/I]

You would prefer no?

[I]Yeah.[/I]

And the reason why, being?

[I]Do I need a reason? I just value my privacy. I don't think I need a reason.[/I]

Ok. That's true, you don't. Ok, can you shut off the vehicle in the meantime?

[I]Um...[/I]

I'll let you have A/C if you turn it on.

[I]...it's really hot.[/I]

Ok, turn on your A/C, I'll be right back.

...

*Returns with drug sniffing dog, walks around car tapping body panels.*

...

I got his story. Do you still want to file a complaint?

[I]Are you guys going to let me go?[/I]

Yeah. You're free to go sir.

[I]What's his name?[/I]

Mr. Herrera. And I'm Rillon.

[I]Thank you for your help sir.[/I]

You don't want to to file a... no? Should I notify my supervisor or...?

[I]Um, you can notify him.[/I]

Ok.

[I]It would be better if he just did what he's supposed to.[/I]

Ok, I'll go remind him again of his duties.

[I]Ok thank you, have a nice day.[/I]


And of course, as I'm pulling out on the cross street to the stop sign, they wave a guy by, and due to the way their checkpoint is setup up, he drives right into the side my street and almost T-bones my car. The checkpoint is a complete road hazard.

Oh that's just GREAT!
Because of YOU, Mr. Herrera will be transferred to Sumas, Wa. and I'LL have to deal with him!

On the other hand, a few months ago I crossed the border and a young prick was acting just like your Herrera....when along comes his superior and totally blows the kid off....wants to talk vette shit(was driving the '95) and we get into a 15 min discussion about the best dyno shops and cam design and head flows. ROFL.

It was great! In spite of the 300 Canadians that were lined up behind me in 95 degree heat.

I wonder if these guys get stopped in their personal vehicles.

The irony of these "Do-you-look-mexican Checkpoints" is that the guys working there all look Mexican.

Every time I pass the checkpoint on I-5 (where they've always just pointed me by), the people that are stopped are ALWAYS Mexican.

I would wonder if they have to post them either online or in the paper? That way you can adjust your route.

I think of Jefferson, tho... "Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither."

There's no route around them, these are major highways with no side roads. They've got I-5, I-15, I-8, and Highway 86 covered here. I feel bad for the people that have to commute this way every day.

it really makes me wonder the logic... if I remember rightly, the dragnet was outlawed back in the 60s by the Supreme Court. These checkpoints are no better than Nazi Germany.

Check this guy out:



In his case, the BP agents say the drug dog did alert them, the driver wasn't convinced, and then they tazered him when he refused to get out of the car.

It's hard to determine what order you're supposed to listen to when half of their orders are bullshit. That's why I kept asking the BP agent for confirmation of what he was ordering, and it turned out basically everything the guy ordered me to do was bullshit.

If an officer orders you to tie his shoes, and you refuse, he can't taser you for it.

That is disturbing and VERY worrysome.

You certain this wasn't Germany '39?

Up here, if you look Canadian, watch out!!

Considering that there are over 11 million people here illegally, I think there needs to be a way to dislodge them and return them to there country of origin. Can't tell you how I'd do that. Maybe just raid sweat shops and check hotel staffs papers, or go to where there picking crops. Seems like there would be more of them there than on our nations highways. In many ways the terrorists and criminals have won as a result of their assualts on American society. The rights of the many have been compromised by the acts of a few. This also opens the door for I remember when conversations. Once upon a time, when our nation was truly free .........
I get to go through TSA next week to go to South Carolina. They're going to look at me like I am beneath them. Start a benign conversation to listen to how I speak and search my bags. Last time my flight was delayed a couple hours and they must have been bored. They went through my luggage all the way down to my dirty underwear. One of the things I've always disliked about law enforcement is the us against them mentality. Inside law enforcement, the hierarchy that starts from the lowly school crossing guard and ends somewhere up in The Joint Chiefs Of Staff maybe even the Commander in Chief. And I don't trust any of them ...... Defend your rights, ask questions but don't answer any you don't want to, and if necessary, lawyer up. To law enforcement it's all a big game and they have time and money to play it. Even though it is our money they're playing with.

I went through the "fruits & vegetables" checkpoint on my way out to Cal.

felt like I was in Russia.

The fruits/veggies checkpoint was closed when we drove through.

Either way, I don't like the presumption of guilt, versus the expectation of innocence.

As traffic laws change, you are more and more subjected to search and seizure than ever before. It's crap.

And this is by BOTH political parties. The GOP talks about freedom, then promptly takes it away. The Democrats are the same way.

In short, from a legal perspective, we have covered all bases. Now, we have to outlaw the little shit that harms/mames/kills 40 ppl a year, and treat the rest of us like the lowest common denomonator of the gene pool.

At the same time, these checkpoints, in an effort to rid our population of one thing, harms the population that belongs here. I don't see the benefit... and all Dubya does is build a fence...

"fruits & vegetables" are a threat to our national security.

I80 has a 6 lane F&V checkpoint but they wave anyone thru with Nevada tags.

Funny thing is they'll have it open in the winter when it's snowing and another mile up the road, they'll have another checkpoint to see if you have snowtires on.

I can only hope they keep all the fruits in California.

I read up on that guy that was tasered. I agree with his cause, but the way he goes about it sometimes is ridiculous and counterproductive.

He's posted videos of him accosting and hassling police, shining lights in their face at night, and running down a cop at an airport to point a camera at him and ask him to explain why he's carrying an assault rifle.

These border patrol agents know him well and know his identity, because he's a pain in their ass every time he goes through these checkpoints, and he puts it all on youtube. Of course that doesn't justify their level of force, if anything it means they should have no reason to question him and just wave him through. But these ones were happy to taser him. Cops that are not "just doing their job" have a tendency to get trigger happy.

I had a situation in 05 in Maui, I had total knee replacement on both knees in 04. Had zero problem with security in OHara or Lax Air ports. Return trip from Maui security guard pulls me to the side because I set off detectors with Knees,

Sir(me): You are carrying something metal on your person. I very nicely show him my knee replacement card.

Guard Said: This don't Mean shit to me.

Me: I flew here from Chicago to Lax to here with no problems!!!!

Guard: I detect an attitude sir:

Me: I teach High School Asshole and I put up with assholes and attitudes all day.

Guard: Red faced Under Home ...I interupt!!

Me; Under the US Const, you have no right to detain me and ask stupid questions.

Guard in charge comes over I drop my pants in Maui airport in front of god and the world and show them my knee scares and ask now assholes ya wanta check my ass while your down there.. Case closed Passengers laugh a few applaud.

Quote:

It's hard to tell us from you Yanks until it gets cold and we put on our touques! You might have to get Sweet90 to translate that last word....

I think the airline rules are different because they are a commercial operation and can choose to deny you service.

But if you're dealing with a Department of Homeland Insecurity agent than you are probably right.

Quote:

Never ever had a problem in Canada...

Border guard: Welcome to Canada, how long will you be with us?

Me: goin fishing may stay forever beautiful country.

Border guard: What test Line? 20lb test. Hear their hittin on wigglers. what kind of Rod?

Me: Graphite made it myself..ya wanna see it

Border Guard: Ya that would be great!!!

Now thats the way to treat people...border crossing was empty when we went through....things are probably much different when back to back traffic

Hey Kevin, since you hate everything and everyone so much maybe you should move into the mountains in a log cabin with no phone or internet and then you wouldn't be harassed by the government.

Quote:

Uh hmmm !

Game warden and tax assessor would still bother you. There is no fuckin peace until

Quote:

There aren't enough mountains.

It'd be more practical if the government moved up into the mountains and hid out in a log cabin.

I can see that "hope & change" is working well for some of you.

Mmmm, Mmmm, Mmmmmm.....

Barack Hussein Obama...

Mmmm, mmm, mmmm......

Although seriously, I think the American people and GWB's administration are to blame for the Patriot act and the ever growing police state. BHO will get his chance to add to it though.

Quote:

I can't agree with that more