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| Steve40th | 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Well, My 4L60 is dead again. I wish I was driving it hard, but its rarely driven at all.
Anyways, I have the D44 already, and a pretty good list of what else I need. If you were to have the option of having your automatic rebuilt correctly, or just swapping out to a 6 speed, what would you do. They come out to about the same, as I have shipping involved to Hawaii. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 3:51
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| bogus | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I would go 6spd. Especially if you are doing autox.
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 6:00
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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It'll feel like a whole new car with the 6-speed. I have a hard time believing it'll cost the same as an auto (or be as easy), but if you say it is, then go for it.
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 6:10
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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With an auto, I would need a rebuild, good rebuild, which can be about 2-2500 bucks. New converter, Vigilante, around 700-800? I would then need it shipped to and from, 3-400 bucks.
I just found a ZF-6 for 1900 bucks for everything. Condition? Would need a clutch and shorter shifter,pedals, and other minor stuff. Am I off base on costs? A friend about a mile away just did this a couple years ago on his 93. He said it would take a few days, and one fabricated plate he would make for me. He said it is rather easy, just need the parts, and wifes concurrence. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 8:01
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| Mekanic | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Lookin at at LEAST 1k for a new clutch, FW, and hydraulics.
Say $200 for a shifter And ???? for pedal and console assembly. So you're lookin at 3100 + pedals and console + labor for the 6 speed. But it'll be a beast. IF! You do the kind of driving that is conducive to a manual. Lookin at your sig looks like you do drag racing, if that's the case, instead of spending 2k building the auto, spend 3k and out 60' all of us 6 speed guys. Stab and steer baby. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 10:51
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| biggrizzly | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner!
 
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Speaking as a fellow A4 owner and dreamer of self induced shifts I can say that it would be awesome to have a 6 speed in my car rather than the automatic. However, it is what it is, and from what I have read over the years of people doing swap, it can be more involved than what meets the eye.
I haven't blown my trans yet, but I'm not as far down the path as you. I just barely got all my stuff together and will be driving in my first Autocross the end of this month. So, after I blow my trans maybe I'll change my tune, but this is what I'd do in that case. I know you have owned your C4 for a long time and have a lot of blood, sweat and dollars into it. As do I, on mine. Even though my C4 is like part of the family now, I think that I'd probably sell the automatic car and start looking for a 6 speed replacement. I don't know what the market is like in Hawaii, but here there are lots of C4s on the market and some already with a 383 in place. I know for you this may be out of the question, but maybe just as much a stretch as the conversion. Just another opinion. By the way... I have been reading a lot of great stories about automatic cars doing well in low speed autocross events. I don't know how well they hold up to high speed or track racing, but seems like a lot of people are still doing well with the old slush buckets!! |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 12:53
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Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways. |
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| PeteK | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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If you prefer the 6 speed, I would go that route. I have been following your auto trans troubles over the years, and is is unfortunate. With the level of power you are making, and the time, effort and expense you have invested, you should have been pleased with the 700.
Do you have the time and interest to build the 700 yourself? If so, lemme know and I can try to help. If my suspicion is correct, You may be able to fix your current problem yourself for reasonable money.I can help there too, if you wish to fix it. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 12:53
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Steve, you might want to check this out.
In case the link doesn't work it is $300 for a C4 engine with manual trans on Craigslist, Oahu. Might help? http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/pts/1401981251.html |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 14:37
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| Touringmike | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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If I was 20 years younger, I'd do it.
Today, I'd just look for a car with the 6 speed already in it. Old age is a bitch. I ache for days after anything strenuous, like CV shaft changes. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 16:01
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ยด85 4+3 |
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| bogus | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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any bets its a 4+3?
Ok... clutch... you will need one, but there is an option that will save money. RAM has their C4 conversion with hydraulic throwout bearing. Check it out. http://www.ramclutches.com/Specialty%20products/C4_Conversion.htm http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RAM-900800/ This is cheaper than OEM with a dual mass... trust me on that. I do not know how good this is... but it is more than likely my next clutch. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 16:35
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I emailed the engine tranny here in Oahu.
Now I know an auto can be built tuff, as PeteK has shown. Many F bodies do very well at Drag Racing. I am more an autocrosser now etc. I dont think its all that hard a swap, and with someone already doing it here locally, same vehicle, and willing to helpm you cant beat that. I do have the D44, do I need a new yoke, and driveshaft? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 17:25
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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That Ram clutch says its good for 700 HP?
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 17:26
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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The tranmission was from a 87. Thats 4+3 correct?
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 17:52
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| iCorvette | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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89 first zf6, before that doug nash 4+3
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 18:10
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Knew it was too good to be true
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 18:14
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Quote:
Driveshaft length is the same, but yeah, you need the yoke. I've got a massive list floating around for swapping from a 4+3, obviously then you just need the pedals from a 90-96. Why $1900 for a trans? What is shipping to Hawaii? I got mine new for $1250 before shipping. Used ones sell for $500-$800 before shipping. Do the Hurst shifter (if you can find one) before you install the trans, don't waste any time with the stock shifter. I don't have experience with the B&M. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 18:48
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Quote:
Pete, If I build it, it will be a long process, as I will be emailing back and forth with you. I am mechanically capable. I have very good shops and tools to use. But the tranny needs specialty tools, correct. I saw your build up, and there are so many things that you know, tribal knowledge lets say. If you think its doable, let me know what you think I would need. Of course a teardown would be the first step. How much is labor, in dollars, is the builds online at some of the reputeable shops? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 18:59
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I just had foud one for 1900 with a quick look. Shipping sux to Hawaii. Even ground is treated likes it is allot. I will keep looking, and looking at options. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 19:01
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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They might call it that, but in reality there is no "ground" shipping to Hawaii.
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 20:42
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 20:45
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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They told me it is their reserve drivers that only deliever a couple times a week. So you order/ship ground, track it, then go to the airport and pick it up. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 20:56
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Quote:
Interesting he wants a core? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 20:58
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| bogus | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I doubt it... those should be the last of the GM firesale ZFs a few years back.
If you get a ZF, be sure to know what year it is for. The clutch changed... and I think it was due to the splines on the input shaft... Maybe Kevin remembers the reason. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/17 23:47
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| rklessdriver | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Black tags and Blue tags have different size TB collars. Make sure it's a tranny for an L98 or LTX. The LT5 has a longer input shaft. Will |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 1:10
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1984 Corvette. 434 SBC with a Powerglide. Best pass - 8.48@160MPH 1.23 60ft on MT 275/60R15 Radials. 1972 Corvette. LS5 454 BBC with M20 4 speed. Best Pass - Doing good to just pass a gas station. |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Well, I need to discuss things with the wife when she gets back tommorow. The ebay site is not ZR-1/LT-5 ZF transmission, which is good.
But, will need the rest of the stuff as it is just the box. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 1:36
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| anesthes | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I swapped my '87 from 700R4 to a ZF6. Was $1800, including black tag, race clutch, new flywheel, new hydraulics, used pedals. If you like a manual, I'd go with a tremec. The ZF6 is a clunky trans and shifts goofy. I think it's because of the way the outboard shifter assembly works. It's probably a bulletproof trans though, for the money. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 2:21
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| PeteK | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Steve,
My thought process is that you broke, or burnt the band based on your symptoms. If I am correct, you can fix it without special tools, and less than $200. A new drum runs about $100, band about $30 plus gaskets, and filter/fluid. Once the trans is out, 1 hour of disassembly will tell the tale. Building a complete trans will require borrowing or buying special tools. I vote you try to fix it first, if you are willing to try. PK Quote:
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 3:23
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I am willing to try. Should I read some literature? Or just take her out, and go from there?
Based on what it was/is doing, you tink its the band? Is this the one people replace with a extra wide band, and Beast shell? If so, I am definitely willing to do this. I think after this I am going to get some literature, video and a junked 700R4/4L60 and tear one down etc etc. PS, where do you purchase parts etc. I know the valve body gaskets are year specific for me. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 4:32
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| PeteK | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Quote:
Steve, I recommend purchasing the ATSG manual for an 87-93 4L60. If you already have a helms manual, you don't need the ATSG book. I am near certain it is the band or servo, or both. If you lost 2nd, 4th, and reverse, it is a broken reaction shell. I doubt it is the shell, as most builders replace the stock shell, with a beast, because they (stokers) break so often. In other words, your trans should have a beast. If not, your builder is not a friend. Parts are easily purchased from a local trans shop, or CT Transmission parts out of Cali. Look for them on e-bay. New wide band will require a new drum, but your drum could be screwed anyhow, so you might as well step it up the extra 1/4 inch in width (band). Red lined bands work well. Buy an extended length factory gm pin as I described in my build up thread. This way, you can have a perfectly set servo set up. You will find the 93 v/b gaskets retro bacl to 87, so they will be in your overhaul kit. No special tools are required to do this repair. Snap ring pliers, a dial indicator and magnetic base, and hand tools will get it done. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 12:22
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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So based off the slips and shudders before going into third, I may need a band, servo(, and/or drum for the band.
I do have the FSM manual. Is the ATSG more in depth? There Video? Thanks Pete. As soon as I can get under the car and rip it out, I will go to it. Probably not till this coming weekend. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 18:31
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| PeteK | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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The ASTG does have a few gm updates in it, compared to the helms, and is worth the $15, so you may as well buy it.
Servo's don't wear out (in theory) but a stock replacement is $15 or so. Worth buying a new one, for piece of mind I guess. The servo is made up of approx 10 pcs, and approx 5 seals. I have never seen a broken servo. Drum and band are likely shot. and retaining pin may also have sheared. You will know once it comes out. Again, all these parts may be available at a local trans shop, so you may want to wait till it is apart before buying parts, to save a few bucks. I travel for a living, but will shoot you my blackberry (work) e-mail, in case you need me while I am on the road. PK |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 18:39
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"It was really on a pass until it came apart." "Yeah. They always are." |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Pete I cant thank you enough for your time. I am sure I can figure something out to thank you. Aloha, Steve
PS, there are twoi ATSG books,a blue and updated green one. Does the update have everything and updates? Or do you need both? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 20:11
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| PeteK | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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No thanks needed Steve. That is what the forum is all about.
Blue is fine. Green lists gm updates, not aftermarket. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/18 23:52
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Need to find someone that took their 6sp out for an auto, something common with drag racers.
My tuner still has the clutch pedal in his after doing the swap. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 13:29
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Yeah, a packaged deal will save some bucks. The rest of the stuff cost me about $800 or so before shipping, that was with new parts for the wear items and used other stuff.
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Posted on: 2009/10/19 19:55
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Still trying to get with the wife to realize, I WANT TO DRIVE MY VETTE. Family stresses me sometimes
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 4:05
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Shipping is 700 bucks total by slow boat for the 700R/4L60 to one of the shops that is capable of rebuilding. OUCH.
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 16:26
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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In that case, shipping all the ZF6 crap from two different locations would probably be about that much too.
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 19:41
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| BrianCunningham | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Ouch
That's the one trouble with living on an island. You can't be the only C4 there though. Have you tried some yards? |
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Posted on: 2009/10/20 20:38
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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There are 3 Rubys in island, one being a ZR-1. My friend has a automatic ZO7 Ruby. Showroom condition but will not part with the tranny.
Seriously though, the transmission shops dont even have cores. I went to three different ones here. Yes it sux being here, not just because of shipping. |
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 4:00
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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You don't need a 6-speed in Hawaii. You can't even get past 3rd gear on the highways there.
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 5:44
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| bogus | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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What about milatary buds sneaking one on a c17???
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Posted on: 2009/10/21 20:37
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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We would never do that ;)
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 3:32
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| anesthes | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Where are they filming Lost ? All kinds of weird stuff shows up on that show. Perhaps a new trans.. -- Joe |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 12:37
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| Steve40th | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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They are filming on the North SHore. I drove into their shoot one day in my Island Car. OOPS.
I will figure a way. I do travel to and from the Mainland. I am leaving here in Nov, but i dont think it will fit in a Pelican case |
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Posted on: 2009/10/22 17:29
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| iCorvette | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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This is me: I hate shifting it is over, I am tired of stalling at the light and slipping the clutch to keep it running and backing up with nursing the left leg to tell the pedal what to do...I need a 700r and every other piece, but Hawaii shipping is suicide and I am in Los Angeles http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-te ... -swap-from-a-6-speed.html http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-pa ... flywheel-look-inside.html |
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Posted on: 2009/11/8 4:02
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| bogus | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Huh? It's harder for you to keep a manual running? If that is your logic, the auto will NOT fix that problem.
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Posted on: 2009/11/8 21:17
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| iCorvette | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I kill it alot or at least more than i like, I can't dirve basically, nor am I an owner of logic... |
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Posted on: 2009/11/10 6:26
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| CentralCoaster | Re: 6 Speed conversion from 4L60, would you do it? | ||
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I've done my fair share of exercising the clutch in bumper-to-bumper LA traffic. If I had to drive in that on a daily basis I'd want an auto too.
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Posted on: 2009/11/10 8:06
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