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383tpimachine | Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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Looking at upgrading the ride and getting a lil more competitive in autox and maybe some pca events. Coilovers seem like the best bang for the buck but Van Steel seems to be the only one putting out a direct bolt on system.
Has anyone used them and what are your thoughts? Im looking for overall handling and not looking to lower my car much. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 16:02
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BillH | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
The Stig Moderator
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They're the best bang for the bucks you can get. Believe it or not, they're fairly inexpensive compared to some coilover setups.
I've instructed in a bunch of C5s that had coilovers, it's an impressive improvement. You do have to do your homework on setup though. I think the Van Steel's are the ones that Gary Hoffman is doing the shock setup on. If it was me, I'd give Gary a call. He's extremely knowledgeable on shocks. www.hardbarusa.com |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 16:11
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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I didnt get his name but the guy I talked to at Van steel (Owner by the way he talked) was VERY knowledgable. We will go over spring rates and the works before I order but this is for overall drivability and autox.
they are a VERY decent price for the performance which is a huge plus for a college kid like me. The owner I talked to said he worked hand in hand developing the system with someone but it escapes me. May have been Gary or a QA1 guy |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 16:18
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BillH | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
The Stig Moderator
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It was Gary. I talked to him about these when they were being developed.
Let us know what spring rates you end up with. Just FYI, the C5s with the change over just seemed to work better (on a racetrack), the chassis set in a corner held better and a big thing I noticed is thet even newer drivers were able to correct a push or oversteer much easier ( the car just responded better,quicker to driver input). |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 16:28
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BrianCunningham | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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It was Gary alright.
My car was the one he measures up BTW I'll be using those same lower mounts for my Penskes. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 16:31
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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BillH | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
They're not on yet? |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 16:42
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BrianCunningham | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 16:54
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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Aardwolf | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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From what I have seen, stock versus coil overs on track cars. The ones with coil overs do not win more often. For the money I have have a shop tweak the suspension, corner weigh, etc.
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 17:18
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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I have quite a bit of oversteer I was hoping to reduce and sounds like these are the ticket.
thanks all. Hopefully Ill be putting them on in 2-3 months when I can get my car back in the garage. damn rain |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 17:47
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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SpectatorRacing | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Elite Guru
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Coil overs won't fix oversteer. A smaller front sway bar and / or a stiffer rear bar will. Do you have a camber brace? Take it off.
Coil overs offer no advantage except the following: 1. The ability to easily change spring rates for different tracks 2. The ability to corner balance the car. They offer no tangible handling advantage on a Corvette (C4 or C5) other than the ability to better set up the car. I'm not saying don't buy them, simply that you should understand what you're really getting. They are not going to magically fix or improve handling. This is a common misconception because typically the kits come with springs and shocks that are stiffer than the stock parts. You can just as easily get a stiffer leaf spring and achieve the same result. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 21:54
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BrianCunningham | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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You can go to either progressive rate, or in my case dual rate springs. Which is an advantage over the stock springs.
The stock springs also have a lot of crosstalk. Oversteer? Generally the problem with C4's is understeer. What's your alignment? |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 22:13
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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SpectatorRacing | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Elite Guru
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Aren't you getting into a much pricier system, though? I agree these dual rate set ups are nice for street/track cars, but you've now lost your "bang for the buck" moniker. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 22:27
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BillH | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
The Stig Moderator
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Can't say I totally agree, Jon. But, I don't think they're magical. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 22:32
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BrianCunningham | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
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My shocks are expensive, the springs aren't It's just two springs and a coupler. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 22:35
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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SpectatorRacing | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Elite Guru
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Ahhh...therein lies the rub. You have to use the expensive QA1 inverted shocks with the dual spring set up. Am I right? And there are 8 springs to buy instead of 4. So in other words, your shocks are more expensive and your springs, while not individually more, are twice as much due to the need for 8. So it's a significantly higher system price for your set up versus my "old school" DRM set with stock Bilstiens and Hypercoil "off the shelf" springs. Can't we lay out the facts in these discussions instead of talking around the subject? |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 23:29
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SpectatorRacing | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Elite Guru
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On a race car, sure. But on a street Corvette what other differences are there? I've seen article after article showing why the leaf spring set-up on a production 'vette is very effective, perhaps moreso than a coil over suspension on this particular car. Leaf springs get a bad rap because they're "old" technology. But in this application they are just as good, perhaps better, than a coil over system. I have lots of stories I could tell about breaking suspension knuckles, etc. because my car was retrofitted with a coil over set-up that it was not designed for. I also can't argue with the results - I'm one of the few C4 or C5 guys that uses coil overs on a late model Corvette(at a grassroots level). And I hang with lots of national champs. And Buttermore lead the Viper and Ferrarri in his T1 car with leaf springs...only losing the top spot due to brake deficiencies. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/25 23:39
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BillH | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
The Stig Moderator
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Well, the OP is putting these on with AutoX and track events in mind. And he's competitive in his class.
The breakage thing could be poor engineering or a hundred other things. Your results speak for themselves, maybe it's the driver. Buttermore's results with leafs are fine, doesn't mean much though. I don't hate leafs but I've never been wild about the transverse application. If you have the articles and can post any, I'll read them. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/26 0:03
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BrianCunningham | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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You should be able to put dual rate coils on any coilover setup bilstein included.
That custom rear mount takes care of the rear loading problem. having a progressive rate makes a world of difference on the street or the track. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/26 14:29
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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Quote:
Right now my street ride is tolerable at best. I am pretty sure my front passenger shock is wore out. Hell its stock from 1985 with almost 90k miles on it. And with the trend of my car. When its broke its time to upgrade. If it makes it smoother riding on the street with a lil extra help on the course Ill still be happy. I am far from a professional driver but I want to hone my skills as best I can before I step it up to a poweradder like brian here |
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Posted on: 2010/2/26 15:22
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klkordzi | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Guru Newb
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That is quite a bit of money for coilovers on your car where you will still have to replace the shock tower. The shock tower on an 85 will not support coilovers. Most people will will replace the shock tower with ones from a later year or make up their own. I made up my own. Going with coilovers made for the 85 means you have a smaller diameter spring to fit within the shock tower. If you make up your own towers, you can go with QA1's which are significantly cheaper. Also, that lower mount is very pretty but I can do a lot with that $250 and make up my own.
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Posted on: 2010/2/27 3:48
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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If its not going to help much I may just wait and pick up a later year model with better offsets and less emotional attachment
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Posted on: 2010/2/27 6:04
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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mseven | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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I thought this was already at the builders, why not trailor it over there? Quote:
That is exactly the reason I bought QA-1's. Mine is a 90 so no shock tower needed, but the overall price on that set-up is way steep IMO. Can't add anyhting about going around cones or the like though. |
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Posted on: 2010/2/27 11:29
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BrianCunningham | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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The engine is over there. No room currently in the shop for the car. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/1 16:16
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Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com |
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jhammons01 | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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I'm confused about this whole thread.
There is a lot of assumption that everyone understands the terminology, someone go over the basics and bring us up to speed on this debate. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/1 16:32
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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I am confused. the first posts say it will help. the latter say its pointless. Im pretty sure I will still get them.
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Posted on: 2010/3/1 17:06
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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shakedown067 | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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I had thought about coil-overs, but for the price (and mounting issues that were brought up), I've still got my eye on VBandP springs.
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=575 |
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Posted on: 2010/3/2 3:32
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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How hard is it to install the springs? and what quality are the shocks?
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Posted on: 2010/3/2 5:11
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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SpectatorRacing | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Elite Guru
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Quote:
BillH wrote: Fair enough. Again, my argument is not that coil overs should be avoided, simply that there are better "bang for the buck" upgrades available at this point in the car's career. Quote: The breakage thing could be poor engineering or a hundred other things. Nope. That happened when I used to drive the car on the street, which is tpi383's intent. Pot holes and such. Never had an issue on the track. Quote: Buttermore's results with leafs are fine, doesn't mean much though. I disagree. If you can win with the "stock" style suspension, why change it? And these are not unique results. But this is an opinion, not to be confused with fact. Quote: I don't hate leafs but I've never been wild about the transverse application. I think you're falling into a trap with your mistrust of leafs. We could pontificate all day about it. I'll see if I can find the one article in particular that had the best information and post a link. Keep in mind I am no proponent of leafs over coils. I only preach what I've seen work on the race track. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/2 22:32
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Aardwolf | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Senior Guru
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I totally agree with the above. I'd look at sway bars, good shocks, sway bar heim links, heim links for the rear suspension, corner weigh/chassis setup. Put zerks in so you can lube the suspension bushings. I've found it doesn't take long before the sway bars become dampeners. Before anything budget for seat time.
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Posted on: 2010/3/2 23:34
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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already have sway bars and ordered all the pieces from banski what are heim links? shocks were what the coilovers were going to be for since my are oem... |
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Posted on: 2010/3/3 17:29
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astock165 | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Registered Vendor
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Heim jointed sway bar links. Heim joints are another term for spherical bearing or rod end, like the type you'll be getting on the rear suspension kits. The sway bar links are basically miniature versions of the links you'll be replacing on the rear suspension. The spherical bearings allow more free rotation and remove binding. Typically the length is adjustable so you can properly corner weight the car. There are a number of swaybar links out there for the C4 but be wary and look closely at each since they all have different characteristics. Make sure to see if each has truly infinite length adjustability or just the half turn adjustability of a male rod end threaded into a female rod end. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/3 18:16
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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got ya. What companies make them? never seen any. I already have 32mm and 30 or 28mm VBP sway bars installed so would I just have to buy new sway bars? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/3 18:41
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LD85 | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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I agree, the front towers are a little weak but DRM does make bolt on CO's for the 85.
I made my own towers, but a decent solution is to buy the two towers from a junkyard, cut the 85's off and weld on the newer towers,,, the newer style towers will look stock as well. I plan on buying the lower mounts at some point, I need to change my rear 275# springs to 325# or 350# soon, they are a little too soft Here is what I did Front http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules/ ... t_id=24311#forumpost24311 Rear http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules/ ... t_id=42950#forumpost42950 |
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Posted on: 2010/3/17 19:25
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
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LD85 I have looked over your work many times. I am just not very skilled with a welder.
Is that solution much stronger? How much more room for adjusting? |
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Posted on: 2010/3/17 19:41
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LD85 | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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The steel that I used was 3/16 on the sides and 1/4" on the top, (stock is @ .150 thick if I recall) all stick welded together an yes, it is very strong, stronger than the stock towers simply because it is thicker steel.
However, the stock 89-up (?) model years are what many people have and use and they work fine, in retrospect, I would have no problem welding on a stock newer style tower after cutting off the old tower. Vette2Vette had them for like $100 for the pair, cutting the old tower off is not that bad either, I used a pneumatic cut off wheel.. Welding them on is straight forward, but you need a 220volt welder, 110volt does not provide enuff heat. Do you have any buddies that weld, what state do you live in? EDIT: You could also buy the Exotic Muscle bolt ons and weld a side support onto the stock towers, this would save a lot of hassle. The EM CO's come already setup for a desired feel, my QA1's can be adjusted however I want... |
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Posted on: 2010/3/17 20:32
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383tpimachine | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Master Guru
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Im in south texas and I have access to just about any tool through friends or family. But I dont like my care being down for more than a 2 or 3 weeks at a time while I work full time and am a full time college student. This car is my daily driver but I do have a backup but it gets worse gas mileage with its lil 4.3 v6 compared to my hopped up 383. Go figure
So coilovers with updated arms is the best route it seems. |
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Posted on: 2010/3/17 23:37
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1985 Atomic Orange 400YSIT56-Racecar build 1970 El Camino-Awaiting LSX |
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klkordzi | Re: Van Steel Coilovers for my 85 | ||
Guru Newb
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I also looked at the work LD85 did and went his route of making up shock towers. My daughters fiance is a welder and I mocked the towers up in cardboard and her made them up in steel and also welded them in. Whether coilovers are worth it probably as with all things in hot rodding, is a matter of preference. I did QA1 coilovers all around because it was cheaper than replacing the leaf spring. I also can change the spring rate very easily and also ended up with adjustable shocks. I made up a lower rear mount to eliminate using the stock mount. Using the stock mount required shimming the coilover away from the knuckle for clearance and worried me about putting to much force on the stock stud mount.
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Posted on: 2010/3/18 1:34
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