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| iCorvette | Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
 
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and why?
I noticed the toe rods have ball joints, that is just a giant one sided heim joint...no? and the other end is what?,it is covered in rubber; is it another ball joint or rubber mounted? if it is metal, what practical purpose does it serve to replace it with a Banski type, when from the factory it has no slop or bind, I understand worn parts may trigger a buying event...but functionality I don't quite understand the improvement for this part. of the remaining parts camber arm vs. control arms; Which, moves in an axis contrary to how the part is in it's resting position?. rephrase.. which part is worse from the factory and would be less forgiving when the element of poly bushing is introduced to the business ends? or contribute more to binding... in the event I can't remedy the binding, I can opt for just one suspension component to alleviate some but not all of the problems without going flat broke.. thanks for comments, Cf is of absolute no use, they just hold hands and skip along a merry gay path sing Kumbaya.. such a poor visual for middle aged men with Vettes. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/11 17:02
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| bogus | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
 
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I would rank them, in order of suckage:
1. Lower control arm. #1 with a bullit; by a mile. 2. Trailing arms. 3. Tie rods. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/11 18:40
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| iCorvette | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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so you say the camber rod is the worse, they use different names for everything...thanks
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Posted on: 2010/12/11 20:13
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| bogus | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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Whatever the part is! The lower control/camber arm. It's the one that runs at the bottom.
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Posted on: 2010/12/11 20:33
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| tjpreul | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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I had ordered the trailing arms first, because the stock ones are non ajustable. However when I looked at how the stock suspension was set up, I ordered the camber arm within a week of the trailing arms. Getting rid of the cam bolt was great. The guy that aligned it said it was a very nice setup, and exact. There was the cost factor, but that only lasted until I drove the car after everything was installed.
I would almost have to say the trialing arms and camber arms are equal. If you replace one you are only helping half of the problem. With the toe arm, it does allow the rear to move with joints on both sides. However you have to buy the whole assembly when the inner ball joint need replacing. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/11 21:56
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Vegas wasn't built on winners. '92 auto, MSD, Banski, Taylor wires, SS lines, C5 rims, 3.07 gears, white gauges, seats from a '96. Motor: Forged rotating assy, Probe pistons, CC valvetrain, AFR heads, Procharger P1SC |
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| vetteoz | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
Pure physics The lower control arm /chamber arm bushes are designed to move in a vertical plane while the outer end of the arm is moving in a arc as the spindle moves through it's travel = binding Ditto the trailing arms Pull the dog bones out of any hi mileage C4 and see how flogged out the stock rear bushes are due to the side loading they get as the spindle moves up and down in a arc I have pulled some where there is almost no bush left on the inside of the dog bone; it is all mushroomed out and the steel liner is skewed to one side |
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Posted on: 2010/12/11 23:51
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| iCorvette | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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Right, the rubber is the cushion, not isolated to only Vettes, all oem cars I theorize.
the rubber does deform over time and I believe the car sits lower because of it. My car sits higher and my driving it has worked out the kinks, but still sittin high, I now like the driving and riding sensation. I feel the polys provide a slicker, truer action, whereas, the rubber is purely contorting itself withing the housings. It's no heim joint, but somewhat similar albeit inferior action, the tense sensation is the dissimilar compliance from the rubber ( durometer?), in which I can live with, now that the suspension has worked itself out; so to dissect the feeling, firm but with more ball bearing feeling, if that makes any sense, I am going to forgo any heim joint camber rods, as i think I have accomplished my "street" goals. my flipping the steering wheel left to right at moderate speeds has always induces the pendulum unloading in the rear oscillating if you will like a motorcycle getting the wobbles, or tanks slappers as they call it. I believe this annoyance, is the result worn FX3 shocks, i ordered Tokico Blues last night hope it helps to complete my street suspension. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 0:28
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| vetteoz | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
But if pushed the polys won't come back like the rubber. I killed a brand new set of lower arm polys in one day at the strip ( 25 runs @1.7X ) When installing them, the steel inner liner was a stiff hand push in, after the day at the track the liner fell out when I took the arms off You could see the inner hole in bush was deformed |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 1:52
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| iCorvette | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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so this means in a short time the polys will degrade faster than rubber, meaning rubber will last 50 times longer?
why did you take it apart? are you saying no one that was successful on the strip uses polys because they break? |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 2:14
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| bogus | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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that's called side loading... and the bushing, being so hard, would eat away, not flex through it.
I still think that the camber arm is first, followed by the trailing links. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 4:25
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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I just did the dogbones and camber arms (lower piece).
I didn't bother with the toe/strut rods, I think the factory setup there is fine. As far as rubber vs poly vs rod ends... I think the binding completely covers up any benefit you'd get from an otherwise flexible bushing. With rod ends, you can easily move the suspension by hand. Not so with poly. So the poly is going to transmit all those minor road imperfections to the car because the suspension takes a little coaxing before it starts to articulate. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 9:43
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1985 Z51, ZF6 |
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| astock165 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Registered Vendor
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Let me try to add a little development history to the conversation in hopes that it will help.
I agree with statement that the trailing arms and camber rods are almost equal. If a customer asks for a recommendation on just one kit I usually say the order is (4) trailing arms then (2) camber rods then the (2) toe rods. However, I've found that if a customer orders just the trailing arms, they're usually returning in a short time (within a couple of weeks) to get the camber rods as well. Originally I hadn't planned on doing the toe rods because they are indeed ball joints on both ends in the OE setup. However, I had a number of customers ask about the toe rods so I began working on them. As I got into it I realized that there were some advantages. They may have been more geared for track use but that's the arena I'm in as my car is trailered for track use only. The first thing was that I was able to eliminate another set of grease fittings. I might be in the minority but I HATE grease fittings so I liked getting rid of them. Another, that I have not done it myself but have looked into, is bump steer in the rear. Theoretically you can adjust the bump steer slightly by spacing the hiem joint on the stud that bolts to the suspension knuckle, which isn't possible with the OE unit. A couple of convenience things I found as well: using the same kind of components as are used in the camber rod kit setting toe is very easy and quick. I end up doing a lot of alignments on my car and each time I do an alignment I also set the thrust angle. The ease of use of the toe rod kit makes this process a bit simpler and saves time. Again, this may be something more geared towards track dogs but I think it is an advantage. Lastly, although it's an initial investment, you can more easily replace only the damaged components in our aftermarket toe rod kit. I believe the OE toe rods are an assembly that has to be replaced in its entirety if damaged or bent, less of course the outer tie rod ends. I like this because in the event of an impact the likely part to fail will be the long aluminum turnbuckle of the toe rod, which also happens to be a relatively inexpensive component and only the damaged side needs to be replaced. If the rod ends wear, they can be replaced (inners or outers), again, relatively inexpensively. Hope this helps. I'll check back to see if there's any other questions or feel free to drop me a line. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 14:50
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Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com |
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| BillH | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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The Stig Moderator
 
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Quote:
Yep. I haven't done it on a C4 but that's how I do it on the front end af a lot of racecars. The rear adjustment depends on the suspension type, spacing the heim on C4 type, changing the length of the radius rods on open wheel suspension. I used to build bumpsteer gauges and sell them at the track. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 15:18
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| flyboy | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
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...and no one makes replacement rubber suspension bushings?
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 15:20
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| astock165 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Registered Vendor
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Quote:
Rubber, I don't think so. I believe everything aftermarket will be poly. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 15:24
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Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com |
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| Steve40th | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
 
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Quote:
One company makes Delalum (Delrin with aluminum). I believe its just for the front Control Arms though (Global West ?) For pure driving and for the suspension to work as designed, Banski stuff is the way to go. With all the binding etc in the rear-end of our cars, Hiem joints are the answer, IMHO. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 15:28
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Ko'u ohana aia ku'a ikaika |
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| bogus | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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The only way you can get rubber is to buy a new aluminum OEM arm.
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 19:33
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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| iCorvette | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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Quote:
as a curiosity,will your parts raise the car back to it's stock height? |
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Posted on: 2010/12/12 23:58
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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My car dropped a bit with the Banski kit vs polys. I have to assume that's because it's not binding anywhere, only the spring is holding it up. The kit does not control ride height, only your spring bolt length, spring, and binding bushings can effect ride height.
Anyhow here's my list for 84-87 vettes at least: 1. Front sway bar end links 2. Rear camber rods 3. Rear trailing arms I don't have an issue with the factory design of the other parts, although as Tom mentioned there are other benefits to upgrading them. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/13 3:46
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| iCorvette | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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why just 84-87? was there an improvement after?
I figure when the car was new the center of the bushings was actual, and over time the weight of the car would stretch the rubber, sagging the car, hence some of the stories about driver side sag, I don't know... so when my polys went in, the true center-line of arm was re-established throughout, subsequently returning the car to original static geometry. I don't believe/feel there is binding...if it were the suspension would not move and if it did it would stay at were it moved to. i am sure there is some of it going on, but with the weight of the car, it can over come it and center itself while going through it's paces on day in and day out driving. wrong? I install a vbp 32mm solid front bar and the drivers link dislodge from the bar, I have seen picks of another car doing the same thing, what is going on here?. remember when they were just a long stud with 4 bushings? no binding... what is a cheap fix, I don't notice any ill manners from my "broken link" been 2 years, tried puting it back twice, popped right back out.... |
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Posted on: 2010/12/13 4:13
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| CentralCoaster | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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Yes the car is heavy, but it's sitting on springs. See how little force it takes to lift the car up a little with your hands. So a bushing setup with the same amount of force can do the same.
The "center" is where the spring wants to hold the car. But the bushings become springs when they are forced to pivot on an axis perpendicular to the sleeve. This happens at normal ride height. We're sort of overthinking it, but to each his own. Try this, get your rear end bolted up without the tire, spring, shocks, or sway bar link. Then try articulating the rear knuckle by hand. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/13 4:46
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| astock165 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Registered Vendor
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Quote:
No, only the springs will adjust ride height. |
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Posted on: 2010/12/13 18:27
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Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com |
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| klkordzi | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Guru Newb
 
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If you think your car is sitting high after you replaced the bushings with Poly and removed and reinstalled the sway bars, check to make sure you didn't install the rear sway bar upside down. Doing this will load the rear and cause it to hang up and not settle.
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Posted on: 2010/12/15 20:12
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| 1Fast04Vert | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
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Ask them if they have one that attaches with velcro.
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Posted on: 2010/12/15 20:29
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| MK 82 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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Tom,
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Posted on: 2011/7/27 23:08
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| MK 82 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Senior Guru
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Tom,
Any sales coming up on your products. I have the cart loaded but $972.62 for Camber, Trailing, and Toe gives me heartburn. Maybe free shipping? 1 Trailing Arm Kit $360.00 1 Toe Rod Kit $360.00 1 Camber Rod Kit $220.00 Subtotal $940.00 Shipping $37.62 Order Total $977.62 Eddie |
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Posted on: 2011/7/27 23:08
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| istter1 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
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Posted on: 2011/7/27 23:34
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| Steve40th | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
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Isnt that a steel sleeve around the rubber?
Is the steel damaged? |
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Posted on: 2011/7/27 23:36
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| BillH | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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The Stig Moderator
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Quote:
Totally different deal, Steve. Banski is tubelar steel componets with rod ends. Click the Banski link on the left to see them. |
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Posted on: 2011/7/27 23:49
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| istter1 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
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Posted on: 2011/7/27 23:53
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| istter1 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Elite Guru
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You mean I did it again Lol.
 Thanks for the kind corection Steve |
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Posted on: 2011/7/27 23:59
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| bogus | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah
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this might help...
This is the compressed version... I took out all the ads and shrunk it down. Better for posting and email. |
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Posted on: 2011/7/28 5:56
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The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me |
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CE Banski Article Compressed.pdf| astock165 | Re: Name in order the inferiority of factory suspension components vs. Banski type parts | ||
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Registered Vendor
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Quote:
Any sales coming up on your products. Unfortunately no. We're struggling to keep prices where they are. |
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Posted on: 2011/7/28 20:16
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Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com |
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