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Ultraman What's up in Wisconsin?
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It started out about balancing the budget now the Democrates have run off and hid while it looks like a mini Egypt around the capital building. They say they are trying to break the unions, what do think about that? I am not a big union guy.
Posted on: 2011/2/18 17:09
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TommyT-Bone Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Middle class losing more ground. You'll take what I give you and like it ......
Posted on: 2011/2/18 17:31
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BrianCunningham Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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The real question is where did they go?

Posted on: 2011/2/18 17:34
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flyboy Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Ain't politics fun?
Posted on: 2011/2/18 17:40
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bogus Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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The middle class is becoming the punching bag for the economy.

It's bullshit and we know it.
Posted on: 2011/2/18 20:07
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Matatk Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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I see the pros and cons of unions. While some become to strong (to me, UAW), many still serve a legitimate purpose. For the WI governor to eliminate their collective bargaining rights would ruin many workers.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/20 ... ers-rights-by-decades.php

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Posted on: 2011/2/18 21:55
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TommyT-Bone Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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The govenor should contract Pinkertons. They have experience in handling those types of situations.
Posted on: 2011/2/18 23:53
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flyboy Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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George Pullman was good at it also.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 0:05
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TommyT-Bone Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Posted on: 2011/2/19 0:10
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CorvetteBob Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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I know I'm tired of teachers earning twice what I make and they can't be fired for poor performance. I'm sick of their smug arrogance and having to pay for it. The same with most public employees. From some of the cops to the county workers. I had to lose 10 grand a year while a $hitpile of others have lost their jobs, homes, and who knows what else. Instead of laying off the public employees because their union won't allow wage concessions, why not have wage reductions that mimic the fluctuations of the economy as it impacts local governments ability to collect revenue?
Posted on: 2011/2/19 3:39
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teebee Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Bob, you must really make $hit if teachers make twice what you do. I've been teaching for 32 years (Masters degree +15 hours) and my contract is, this year, for about 48k........Maybe I should be moving to another state !?

As far as poor performance, here in Kansas, teachers can be canned for poor performance, must go through due process, but it can and has been done. I don't think all of us are arrogant, but then again, I only know about 300-400 teachers and all here in Kansas.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 4:15
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Ultraman Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Oh yeah, Teebee, don't forget you get summers off too! My wife love's it when I pull that card out of my sleeve. No that whole thing up in Dairyland is about turning that State into a right to work State. Which means you do not have to join the Union if you don't want and they still have to hire you if you qualify. Nebraska and Kansas I believe have always been right to work States. All States need to be!
Posted on: 2011/2/19 4:55
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TommyT-Bone Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Florida is Right to Work state. That's why we have tradesmen lucky if they can pull in $14 and hour. Season that with a high immigrant population that will undercut you no matter how low you bid on a job and your facing a low wage population. Miami is one of the lower per capita income cities in the nation. People come here looking for a job and freak out at the wages they're offered. Right to Work is like doing the Limbo. How low can you go? I think Don (big grizzly) had a bunch of Right to Workers on his roof the other day.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 12:32
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Ultraman Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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I see what you are saying Tommy but isn't that competition good for the consumer? You are saying if it was a Union State then everyone would be forced to charge a $100 an hour for 25 dollar an hour work.

Out here nobody gets paid as much as some parts of the country, but it doesn't cost a lot to live either. All I know is if the subs are not getting paid as much someone should let my plumber know because he doesn't seem to have got that message.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 13:31
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flyboy Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Right to work...for less.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 13:40
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TommyT-Bone Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Don't forget the consumer is generally getting paid on the same low scale. He has no choice but to price shop. These jobs basicly come with no benefits. It doesn't bode well for the future. No retirement accounts, no insurance. The medical system is overwhelmed with no money, no insurance patients. Guess who pays for that? Not to forget these workers many times will work without permits, under the table, no workmans comp, no medicare, no social security, no taxes paid or collected. Right to Work fuels an underground economy. But you will get your services cheaper .... I guess.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 14:05
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CorvetteBob Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Quote:

teebee wrote:
Bob, you must really make $hit if teachers make twice what you do. I've been teaching for 32 years (Masters degree +15 hours) and my contract is, this year, for about 48k........Maybe I should be moving to another state !?

As far as poor performance, here in Kansas, teachers can be canned for poor performance, must go through due process, but it can and has been done. I don't think all of us are arrogant, but then again, I only know about 300-400 teachers and all here in Kansas.


I think you are in the wrong state. Ohio teachers top out around (as the TV reports) around 76k/year. You are indeed blessed and from a good stock of people if there's no arrogance in Kansas. Both my kids have some special educational needs and, although it must be provided by law, we have faced teachers who blatently say they, "have no reason," or just don't want to work with the requirements. One even got up from the meeting and said, "This is how I teach, take it or leave it!" That's what I call arrogance.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 17:52
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Ultraman Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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TommyT-Bone wrote:
Don't forget the consumer is generally getting paid on the same low scale. He has no choice but to price shop. These jobs basicly come with no benefits. It doesn't bode well for the future. No retirement accounts, no insurance. The medical system is overwhelmed with no money, no insurance patients. Guess who pays for that? Not to forget these workers many times will work without permits, under the table, no workmans comp, no medicare, no social security, no taxes paid or collected. Right to Work fuels an underground economy. But you will get your services cheaper .... I guess.



Mmmmm. Let me think about that for a minute.........wait, I almost had something brilliant to say, nuts I lost it.

All I can think of to say is that it's called a free enterprise system. If you work hard, have a good service with honest people and take care of the customer then the word will get around and you will be in demand even if you charge more then the other guy. Now if you work for a guy and do a good job work hard and take care of his clients then he would be stupid to not take care of you. So it's all about quality of work and basic intergrity. I think that would apply to about any kind of work I can think of.

It's all about free trade and competition. Building a better mousetrap and all that. Anything you put in there to try and artificially pump that up has the potential to try and make a level playing field out of what was never intended to be level. I'm just saying.
Posted on: 2011/2/19 22:36
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TommyT-Bone Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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I love these chats.
Posted on: 2011/2/20 0:28
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CorvetteBob Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Mmmmm. Let me think about that for a minute.........wait, I almost had something brilliant to say, nuts I lost it.

All I can think of to say is that it's called a free enterprise system. If you work hard, have a good service with honest people and take care of the customer then the word will get around and you will be in demand even if you charge more then the other guy. Now if you work for a guy and do a good job work hard and take care of his clients then he would be stupid to not take care of you. So it's all about quality of work and basic intergrity. I think that would apply to about any kind of work I can think of.

It's all about free trade and competition. Building a better mousetrap and all that. Anything you put in there to try and artificially pump that up has the potential to try and make a level playing field out of what was never intended to be level. I'm just saying.


I'd have to agree with what you're saying as the way it "should" be. Where I work, we lost over 10% of our wage because General Motors shut down the truck plant. The reason behind it was that since they no longer had to compete with GM on wages, they could pay us less.
Posted on: 2011/2/20 0:33
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Ultraman Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Yeah, I hear you! A good company would have kept paying the same and taken care of their people. My wife is in the teachers union here but it is her choice. The teachers who opt out take some heat from the others because they are told that the non union ones get all the benifits that the union has supposedly fought for. And the beat goes on!
Posted on: 2011/2/20 1:36
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TommyT-Bone Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Ultraman wrote:
The teachers who opt out take some heat from the others because they are told that the non union ones get all the benifits that the union has supposedly fought for. And the beat goes on!


It's true. They ride on the coat tails of the dues paying members and the collective bargaining agreement. They get the benefit but contribute nothing. There are even special names for these types. I don't want to start on that though.
Posted on: 2011/2/20 3:27
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teebee Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Bob, that sure doesn't sound like the sp ed teachers I work with. Things sound much much different in Ohio. Maybe you should consider moving to SW Kansas.....
Posted on: 2011/2/20 3:55
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CorvetteBob Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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teebee wrote:
Bob, that sure doesn't sound like the sp ed teachers I work with. Things sound much much different in Ohio. Maybe you should consider moving to SW Kansas.....


The special ed teachers have been the ones that are best to work with. The same goes for some of the other teachers. From our experience, they're the ones that have kids of their own that have a need of one kind or another. Fortunately (spelled right?), our kids aren't severe enough to warrant a full-on special needs classification. I don't really want to spell out their details on a forum, but each of them have allowances for reading or auditory difficulties, plus other things. We've kept them in the general population of students as we know there will be no special-ed society for them as adults. Tending to their education has been my wife's efforts, and she's done well with them at home and on their behalf at school.

The teachers I've been ranting about are the ones that literally do not believe in such problems, but consider these to be behavior related issues. They also know they can't be so much as questioned for their action or in-actions as they are, "protected," by the union. This was laid out for us in confidence by a few of the more consiencious teachers that work with them.

Because of the feelings this topic has brought out in me, this will be my last posting on this thread.
Posted on: 2011/2/20 15:25
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Matatk Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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CorvetteBob wrote:

I'd have to agree with what you're saying as the way it "should" be. Where I work, we lost over 10% of our wage because General Motors shut down the truck plant. The reason behind it was that since they no longer had to compete with GM on wages, they could pay us less.


I'm sorry that happened. But GM's wages were bloated for the last 30 years. The union got too strong. Remember, my dad worked in the auto industry since before I can remember, and I saw it firsthand.

The trades unions in Chicago are way too strong. Morons get brought into the trade by their cousins, uncles, brothers, etc, and pass through apprenticeship. Then they make $32 an hour and are incompetent.

On the flip side, unions are necessary in many industries for safety standards and more.

It's a double edged sword.

Matthew
Posted on: 2011/2/20 16:08
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flyboy Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Quote:

Matatk wrote:
[quote]

The trades unions in Chicago are way too strong. Morons get brought into the trade by their cousins, uncles, brothers, etc, and pass through apprenticeship. Then they make $32 an hour and are incompetent.

On the flip side, unions are necessary in many industries for safety standards and more.

It's a double edged sword.

Matthew


Very rare in the United Brotherhood of Carpenters. Maybe on the really big jobs or McCormick Place where you could hide a couple bums. I had 35 years on the job and if you couldn't produce, you were gone after one day, no seniority either and you have a reputation to protect.
Unlike public (govt.) sector jobs, if you couldn't compete you went bankrupt. The foreman I replaced, you were gone at 9:00AM the same day, no quarter was given. (He couldn't show his face at the union hall)
Posted on: 2011/2/20 16:23
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Ultraman Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Quote:

Matatk wrote:
Quote:

CorvetteBob wrote:

I'd have to agree with what you're saying as the way it "should" be. Where I work, we lost over 10% of our wage because General Motors shut down the truck plant. The reason behind it was that since they no longer had to compete with GM on wages, they could pay us less.


I'm sorry that happened. But GM's wages were bloated for the last 30 years. The union got too strong. Remember, my dad worked in the auto industry since before I can remember, and I saw it firsthand.

The trades unions in Chicago are way too strong. Morons get brought into the trade by their cousins, uncles, brothers, etc, and pass through apprenticeship. Then they make $32 an hour and are incompetent.

On the flip side, unions are necessary in many industries for safety standards and more.

It's a double edged sword.

Matthew



Well said Matt! It seems that depending on the trade or even where in the country you are makes a difference in what a right to work State means. There comes IMO a time when the original intent of the union, the reasons it was organized has long been forgotten and greed has taken over. On the other hand teachers would get even less then they do now if they did not have a group fighting for them.

My wife smiles at me, pats me on the chest and says that I am naive since I work for myself and that I just don't understand how it all works out in the real world. She is probably right in some aspects but I know how things work and what things are worth or should be worth anyway. I am starting to realize the other side of the story and you know how I hate to have to change my way of thinking.
Posted on: 2011/2/20 18:11
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JDSWHITE93 Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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So if the average teacher ONLY MAKES 40K that's not bad working HALF THE FUCKING YEAR...... 180 days is the average.
I don't want to do the job however 40K for 180 days no weekends or Holidays with benefits doesn't sound bad.I'm sure theres something better to cut like feeding the convicted murderers and pedophiles etc....
Posted on: 2011/2/20 23:04
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Ultraman Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Well they work a little more than that. My wife who says she can't wait to get your kids in her class says that she works 198 days which includes nights to work on stuff that the govt has to have done and a lot of meetings and such and also all the school they are required to take over the summer. She's out in the kitchen really getting wound up now. She says that school starts this year on Aug 8th for the love of God.

She is saying she has more degrees than a thermometer and has taught for decades and the assitant manager at McDonalds makes more than her. Geez I had to close the door.

As you can see it's a touchy subject around here.
Posted on: 2011/2/21 1:10
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CentralCoaster Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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What does a teaching job at a charter school pay?
Posted on: 2011/2/21 16:12
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teebee Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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Yea 48K/year is huge.....my a$$. I have nearly as many years of education as a GP Doctor (please understand I'm not comparing my education to theirs, but the amount of time and money invested). I must continue my education to keep my license current (or I don't get paid). I work 180 days a year...yea right, that's a bunch of BS, I work evenings, after school, and summers to be able to stay current in my field of teaching. I spend hours upon hours of time filling out and submitting stupid a$$ paperwork required by the local, state and federal governments.

I suggest anyone who thinks teaching is a pud job, working "half the year", put your freaking money where your mouth is and try to do it. You'll be wondering why you spent 8 years in school, so that these little punks can come into your classroom and tell you to go f*@k yourself and with your hands tied you just smile and say "Thank you very much"

Don't complain about teachers until you've walked in their shoes.

I admit, with 32 years under my belt, my days are a bit easier than a less experienced teacher. Teaching the same classes year in and year out, make my prep time a little less, but I still have papers to grade, record and paperwork to do.

CC, I have no idea what teachers in a Charter school make...I would assume similar to teachers in the regular classroom situation.
Posted on: 2011/2/22 2:04
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teebee Re: What's up in Wisconsin?
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In Kansas, joining the KNEA and local association is a choice each teacher makes, not required. In our school district it's probably a little more than half (around 60-70%). The teachers who choose not to join, reap the benefits that the union fights to gain, without the affects or financial costs.

I'm I a member? Yes. But I wish I had another choice. I'm not necessarily a huge fan of everything that the NEA does and stands for, but in other instances, I am behind them 100%
Posted on: 2011/2/22 2:12
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