Ok, one year-1996

330 hp, not bad; flat torque curve, decent power. Good looking car.


But-holy poop, the prices people are asking, are these all gold plated and "special" too? 15, 18, 23k?

Im missing something here.

"Factory"

That's why.

one year. That should tell you a lot.

They also put out more than 330hp, more like 360. It's a real live factory hotrod... and in the 90s, those became rare. GM really lit the fires for that engine.

The ones I have driven were either REAL strong or REAL anemic (meaning, needing an opti or tune up).

get down here and beat on mine and youll see whats up :D

Crossfire one year only too...

Yeah, but Crossfire wasn't an under-rated, detuned final shabang.

I am jealous of all you guys that have a low mileage STOCK vette. That's all I wanted from the very start.

I (a dumb trusting Canadian) chose to buy off sleezebay and found a 'perfect low mileage pristine' one out of Dallas.....bought and paid for it sight unseen...flew down....saw it for the first time....and almost puked!

Yes, it was clean......but it's been "worked on". 4 years later I'm STILL finding crap the original owners altered it with! (Mostly wireing crap...cut wires/accel fuel injection module of some sort/switches added/wiring deleted/strange PCM program vendor ~Z IND~ out of business now/strange exhaust system/fans out of whack/cam/heads/rockers...etc, etc. It's been a real challenge so far, and I'm not done yet. It's fast though.

4 years ago, I thought I found a 'Deal'. It was, sort of.(20k less than a compareable Canadian vette at the time) BUT I could have bought an UNTOUCHED LT4 with the same miles for 4 or 5G's more at the time....and I'm real sorry I didn't.

Because it had been 'rodded' when I got it....I decided I must continue on finessing it further, getting it faster and more reliable cause it was 'too far gone' to restore it to stock.

I wanted 'stock' only to make it 'period correct'. An LT4 would have been my choice of course. A ZR1 was out of my budget then.

So I ended up with a Hot Rod. Not a Bad thing. Just not what I was shopping for.

FACTORY Crossfire, sorry.
(damned typos again).

lol

I'm looking to upgrade. I was looking at the C5s. But, since I own a C4, I've kind of grown fond of them. In my uneducated opinion, a LT4 would be less costly to fix than a C5. I've read where the C5 transmission is quite expensive. I also once thought the people who like the "raw" feel of the C4 were just blowing smoke. Nope, it's true, I like it.
You can get a very nice LT4 for about 16k. I'd pay that. It's a car that will run with stock C5s, and most other cars on the road. Looks great, and has lots of "intangibles".
My ideal next Corvette, if all goes well is an LT4.

Love my 91 stock drop top, Been reading a lot of C4 bashing lately, take a step back and look her over you may fall in love again

16k...damn, I cant even get that for a ZR1. Thats bad, lol.

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You can get a very nice ZR1 for 16K also. Where does that put yours?

Everybody keep the prices up! Come on now!

Time for a step back and a quick lesson in car collecting.

Rule 1: Just because it is rare does not mean it is valuable.

Rule 2: If it was popular new, it will be popular used and it will become a collectable.

The ZR1 was marginally popular in 1990, but that popularity was tempered by a high price tag and they only sold 3500 or so. Total sold, about 6500, over 6 model years. How many LT4 C4s were sold? In one year, over 6500. That equates to popularity. It was the highest single year for the ZF6, too. Most other years were about 5500 (20% of total built).

Next up is desireablity. Is it interesting? Does it have a neat story? Is the performance leading edge? And finally, has the car aged well?

The 1984 Corvette will gain some collectors appeal. But only a few rare birds... very early builds... early 4+3 cars with Z51 and other accumulation of options. don't forget the uberlow mileage. For the most part, the cheap plastics of the C4 undermine it as a collectable.

The later C4 has a much better interior and is much more driveable. That will help it's future values.

Then comes the final reality. The nail in the coffin. Back in the day, GM offered tons of engine/driveline options. These days, the car can last for years with only one engine option. The 84 thru 86 had only one engine and two transmission options. Wow. Then the Callaway came and that created another engine option. Wow. Then came the ZR1. WOW. But those engines were part of some seriously expensive option packages. As it stands, the value of a ZR1 is that of the option package, not the C4 under it.

Then comes the LT1... no engine options again until the LT4. And THAT was an affordable (re: successful) option.

Think of it this way:

In the mid-1950s, Ford Motor Company's Lincoln Division released the Lincoln Continental Mark II.



It's rare. It was pricey back in the day... over $10,000.00 back in '56. And woefully poor selling.

Today? It's worth about $30k, tops.

To compare it with, the 195x Mercedes Benz 300 SL gullwing:



This was about the same price point when new in the mid-50s. About $8000.00. A pot load in that time... today, this car is worth somewhere north of $500k.

Why?

1. competition history. It was a very successful race car.
2. technically interesting. 4 wheel independant suspension and fuel injection.
3. beautiful body style
4. leading edge performance
5. build quality
6. refinement

In short, the SL drives like a modern car, albeit with drum brakes. It got disks in 1960 or 61.

Cars that will never be collectable:

Pinto
Vega
Mustang II
Monza
Yugo
Most anything made in Asia
Most anything made by AMC
Most anything made by Studebaker after 1955
Most anything made by Packard after 1950
Most anything made by Fiat
Most anything made by GM with FWD
Most anything made by Ford with FWD
Most anything made by Mopar with FWD
Any pony car with a 4 banger or V6 and an automatic. Hell, a manual won't help these out one damned bit.
Anything made in England with more than 2 seats. Short of a few Rolls and Bentley's.

This is the fickle nature of car collecting. I feel that for the ZR1 to become collectable, it needs to shake the reputation of being expensive to care for and the bad rap that it's somehow lacking durability/reliability.

That's my take on this subject.

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No nice ones are selling for that unless you include ones with salvage titles or "needs work".
Anything selling between the 15-17k range are going to need work, plain and simple.
15k you could part one out for, 12-13 k cars are usually wrecked. Theres one for 13k now thats in not the best shape and the current owner has no idea the motor has 2 quarts of Moroso block seal to disguise a bad head gasket.

Not knocking the LT4, Ive driven a few and they are nice, just shocked at the difference and what people are willing to pay for 30hp and a red intake.

If you think a different cam, pistons, heads, intake, crank,valves, valve springs, rocker arms, injectors, and exhaust only net 30hp, you must be on what GM was too haha.

The LT4, from what I've heard from a few sources, was also de-tuned by GM, as to not show up the new LS1. Material was added to the intake, and head runners, as well as a smaller cam (hotcam was meant to be factory) on them.

The original design of the LT4 was it leaving the factory rated at 400.

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When something breaks/wears out, you can find the replacement part easily, and without breaking the bank.


P.S. - asking $23k, and getting it are two very different things... I think most "normal" LT4's SELL in the low teens.

That one year was also the LAST year for the C4.

The LT4 was also the LAST of the old smallblocks.

etc

not quite. The last year was 1997 with the Camaro.

And yes, the LT4 was under rated. It is closer to 360, as I said above.

I dont know if I buy the whole "underrated" stuff.
Didnt buy mine as a "collector" car IMO that stuff went out the window after the 70 LT1 Vettes.
I like to drive mine.

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Kind of like those folks who paid $70K for a 350 with funky heads and a "smooshed spider" intake! :tongue:

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Thats not 100% accurate Ron. I paid $15,9. for mine last October. It didnt "NEED" anything. Title is clean and so is the Carfax. Now, in my case, I tend to be a little anal about my cars. Consequently, I put a set of injectors & coils in it, along with any other parts I thought might need attention, before they actually did need attention. The car had 45k miles on it when I purchased it and no its not perfect, with normal rock chips and a some spider webbing on the paint here and there.... but, over all, its a "very nice" ZR-1. The interior is near perfect and the carpets are even about a 9 out of 10.

Not tooting my own horn here, but the point is, that if someone else bought my car at the time I did, someone w/o tools or mechanical ability, they wouldnt have had to do anything to it at all and could still be driving it today just the way they bought it.

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The under rated has been confirmed by a lot of folks who have dyno'd stock LT4's... they are all about 300~315 at the rear wheels... That's more than 330 at the crank.

The collector market hit a bubble in the late 1980s, which created a market for "collector" cars. I guess it started with the last of the Eldorado 'verts in 1976 and then the 78 Vette pace car. People bought them and stored them... over paid thousands because they now owned an instant collectable.

Hell, the Eldo folks even had the balls to sue GM when 10 years later they started making verts again! The only reason the big three stopped making verts was because of a PROPOSED regulation that would have outlawed them. It never happened. Toss in a soft market... bye-bye verts.

And no, collectables did not end with 1970 LT1s. The last of the big blocks... high end imports (Countach)... the Buick Grand National and GNX... there are have been some killer cars made in the last 35 years... and the key to their popularity is if they were hanging on kids walls next to Farrah Faucette!

Just noticed there's a LT-4 on ebay with 58000 miles for
$13,900. in New Jersey. If I lived a little closer, I'd take a look. With that price, theres many questions.

Stock LT4 dynoing 330rwhp? Id have to see it.
Most stock Zs dynoed less than that. Some less, some more.

Just curious to the folowing thats all;came very close to buying a 96 CE before I bought the 89 but it was an auto.

If all goes right Ill be minus a "worthless" collector car very soon anyway and into something with closer to 500rwhp that has no value at all.

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I didn't say that - I said they are dynoing about 300 to 315 rwhp, which is more than the 330 chp rating.

Do a search on CF. You will see the numbers I have seen.

I dyno'd mine when it was bone stock.

I mean bone stock, still had the factory plugs and wires.

85k miles.

Now there is a catch, the guy running the dyno was apparently a tard. And dyno'd me in 5th.

So if you wanna do the math to compensate for the additional parasitic loss of being in 5th.

I dyno'd at 289WHP, in 5th, on a mustang dyno.

Well of course the mustang is going to dyno less, its more accurate.

315rwhp on a dynojet isn't 315hp. But at least its repeatable.

I think this is a little closer to reality.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2126055