Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics [Forums - C4 Technical]

C4 Technical > Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics
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CentralCoaster	Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#1
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Finally got everyone off my back and got some time to install these. Car feels great. It really freed up the rear suspension. The car actually dropped a bit due to less binding, yet I did not adjust the ride height at all. I scraped my exhaust for the first time after backing out of my steep driveway. (Car is lowered.) I can articulate the rear knuckle easily by hand when the car is on jackstands. Going over speed bumps, I hear the front end squeak and bounch with the poly bushings. Rear end is quiet as a mouse and transmits less to the chassis. Took it in the twisties, but improvements there are going to be impossible to quantify without lap times. I don't know when my next track day is, but I'll have to repeat a track that I've been to recently and compare. May not be until a few months from now when it cools off.
	Posted on: 2008/7/18 4:23
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cuisinartvette	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#2
Elite Guru 1782 Posts Member since: 2005/9/16 0:00	Throw up some pics for us inquiring minds!
	Posted on: 2008/7/18 5:33
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BrianCunningham	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#3
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Let's hear what you think.
	Posted on: 2008/7/18 13:37
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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rayquayle	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#4
Senior Guru 139 Posts Member since: 2006/4/9 0:00	I knew you'd get yours installed before me. I'm still admiring them on my workbench. Please let us know.
	Posted on: 2008/7/18 14:28
	_________________ Ray Quayle in England '86 Indy PaceCar, 4+3 NCM Founder #2896 NCM Lifetime #672 Graduate of Gordon's School
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CentralCoaster	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#5
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Everyone (without these installed) seems to think they'll ride very rough. If anything, I found the opposite to be true. Now my car has never rode very smooth, but with the new Bilsteins and these installed, it's as good as ever. I had poly bushings on prior to this, and petrified stock rubber bushings on before that. I'm not convinced how spherical rod ends can hurt ride quality, when you can easily articulate the suspension by hand, that means the suspension can react quickly to an uneven road surface. The stock pieces in their bound up state are very stiff and hard to move, and so they would transfer more energy directly to the frame, not allowing the suspension to soak it up. I'll get pics this evening.
	Posted on: 2008/7/18 19:06
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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astock165	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#6
Registered Vendor Manchester NH 199 Posts Member since: 2005/11/18 0:00	Glad to hear that you're happy so far. I have been very happy with them on my car as well. I have noticed that at autocross my car is much more stable and has a lot more rear grip and I think you hit the nail on the head with your 2nd post. Also, I took the car to NH Motor Speedway (my home track) a couple weeks ago for a 2-day Time Trial. With the same (street) tires and brakes that I ran as last Oct, I picked up 2 seconds on my lap time! Now I also changed the springs from stock FE1 to Z51 over the winter but there is no doubt in my mind that this kit helped with rear grip and reducing my times. We are also ordering more components so we are able to build more kits, see our thread at: http://www.corvette-guru.com/modules/ ... php?topic_id=4482&forum=1 We are also working on a toe rod kit as well as a bracket kit for both the trailing arms and the camber rods, based on feedback from CC and other customers.
	Posted on: 2008/7/19 15:57
	_________________ Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com
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bogus	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#7
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	it does make sense. When I was racing RC cars, we had a choice, spherical rod ends or plastic ball cups. or these things: The top, ball cups, had a tendency to vary in tightness. If they were tight, they were stiff as hell, if they were loose, they were sloppy and popped off. The bottom, the ball ends, they were great. I usually put a washer on top to keep them all together, but in general, they were much more reliable and the suspension bound up less.
	Posted on: 2008/7/19 16:07
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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BrianCunningham	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#8
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	Yes, but with the stock C4's it's even worse since it's not a ball joint, but just a rubber bushed cylindrical hole, that really should just be used for 2d movements. Here's a recent pic of my stock suspension, you can see the old stock rubber bushings binding up so much that they are being forced out. [IMG width=500]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/swiftwood/BayStateCorvetteClub/members/Brian%20Cunningham/upgrades/Full_droop_rear.jpg[/IMG] Next time you have your wheels off, or it's up on a lift, check it out. Poly bushings would actually make it worse since they take away compliance in the the off axis direction.
	Posted on: 2008/7/19 23:00
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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LD85	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#9
Master Guru Indianapolis, Indiana 784 Posts Member since: 2005/9/16 0:00	No pics?
	Posted on: 2008/7/20 20:42
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ghoffman	Re: Spherical rod end suspension is installed!	#10
Senior Guru 258 Posts Member since: 2008/1/25 0:00	Wow Tom, 2 seconds, congrats! And I thought it was due to swapping engines with me....
	Posted on: 2008/7/20 22:12

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CentralCoaster	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#11
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Bump for pics.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 1:13
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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biggrizzly	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#12
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner! Chesapeake Beach, Maryland 4543 Posts Member since: 2006/4/23 0:00	Stupid Question: How do you maintain the proper geometry of all the components? Or is there an optimal setting for autoX or track racing? This looks like a wish list item to towards the top of the list.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 1:24
	_________________ Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways.
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astock165	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#13
Registered Vendor Manchester NH 199 Posts Member since: 2005/11/18 0:00	Quote: biggrizzly wrote: How do you maintain the proper geometry of all the components? Or is there an optimal setting for autoX or track racing? I guess it depends on what you mean by "proper geometry"? We recommend setting the bolt to bolt length the same as your stock dog bones for the trailing arms, at least to start. The length of the camber rods will be determined by what you want for camber obviously. When installed there are spacers that go on either side of the rod end to ensure it does not slide back & forth on the bolt. When tightened, the link cannot move from its mounting points but can rotate slightly because of the spherical ends. Hope that answers your question.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 1:33
	_________________ Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com
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CentralCoaster	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#14
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Yeah I copied the stock lengths for now. I'll have to research jacking points, roll center, anti-squat, et al. before I mess with the lengths on the dogbones.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 1:56
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CentralCoaster	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#15
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Too bad I got banned from CF or I'd be getting you some good press right now. Or too bad for them maybe. If you put these pics up over there in your ad, be sure to tell them it's on centralcoaster's car. :thumbright:
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 1:58
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bogus	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#16
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	That looks awesome! And don't forget to mention, the guru in association with CC's car... Now... what can we do with the front suspension???
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 2:08
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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pianoguy	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#17
Guru Emeritus Apple Valley, MN 14762 Posts Member since: 2007/12/29 0:00	That looks like a very cool setup! I've wondered about the poly bushings - I see a lot of people installing them. A friend replaced the rubber bushings on a Firebird many years ago with poly, and while it seemed to handle tighter, it squeaked like crazy.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 2:34
	_________________ 1996 LT4 �Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.�- Jack Handey
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biggrizzly	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#18
2011 Memorial Day Car Show Winner! Chesapeake Beach, Maryland 4543 Posts Member since: 2006/4/23 0:00	CC, nice job! Also, I finally went and took a look at your CarDomain site. You have done some real good work there. Lots of time on that car no doubt.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 3:01
	_________________ Don Haller Corvette Club of America 94Coupe, 383Stroka, PeteK Trans, 3000stall, 3.54rear, Konis and bigger sways.
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CentralCoaster	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#19
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Yeah I need to update that site, it's really the only way I keep track of the car without forgetting everything.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 3:36
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cuisinartvette	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#20
Elite Guru 1782 Posts Member since: 2005/9/16 0:00	Let me know if you want me to post something up over there. This is good stuff that should be shared.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 7:07
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CentralCoaster	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#21
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	Whatever you wanna do. Tell them I have stomach cancer and and taking donations also.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 7:46
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astock165	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#22
Registered Vendor Manchester NH 199 Posts Member since: 2005/11/18 0:00	Quote: bogus wrote: Now... what can we do with the front suspension??? I've been working on a few things for my car but they have not come along as quickly as I'd hoped. I installed Z51 springs on my car last winter and retrofitted the front to be ride height adjustable with jack screws. Although I was successful, it was a lot of work and customization. It's not something I think most people would want to buy into as it's not just bolt and go. Gary @ Hardbar and I have discussed it many times though and are still brainstorming. I am working on a solution for the swaybar end links as well. I think replacing the rubber/poly bushings with metal and installing adj end links is the way to go. I have that setup almost done on my car. I've also considered doing roller bearing upper and lower A-arms but frankly haven't done much with that yet. Lastly, I am also working on a toe rod kit to accompany these rear links and will be doing brackets as accessories as well.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 11:10
	_________________ Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com
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BrianCunningham	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#23
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	I definitely want to do the swaybar links and the rear toe links as well. Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Yeah I copied the stock lengths for now. I'll have to research jacking points, roll center, anti-squat, et al. before I mess with the lengths on the dogbones. I decided to do that as well. I want to see what the difference is with just these alone.
	Posted on: 2008/7/24 22:44
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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LD85	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#24
Master Guru Indianapolis, Indiana 784 Posts Member since: 2005/9/16 0:00	Very nice, maybe this is next step for me.
	Posted on: 2008/7/25 19:11
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BrianCunningham	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#25
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	I just got back from Tom's place. I picked up my order and got to see his car. Nice All top quality stuff. It's nice when an engineer works on this stuff.
	Posted on: 2008/7/26 21:03
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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Steve40th	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#26
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	I wish I could afford this stuff. I would like to make them myself, can you help a poor fella out with dimensions, material type etc etc
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 5:22
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Slalom4me	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#27
Guru Edmonton, AB 165 Posts Member since: 2007/10/27 0:00	Quote: astock165 wrote: I've also considered doing roller bearing upper and lower A-arms but frankly haven't done much with that yet. Are you aware that another vendor offers upper/lower 'Roller Bearing Control Arm Bushings' for the C4? .
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 5:52

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ghoffman	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#28
Senior Guru 258 Posts Member since: 2008/1/25 0:00	Realistically, even if you have extensive machine shop capabilities, you could not buy the raw materials and parts in onesey-twosey quantities for less than what Tom is charging for the entire kit. For example, a typical anodize shop charges $80 to$100 as a minimum charge if you have 1 part or 30.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 12:33

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cuisinartvette	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#29
Elite Guru 1782 Posts Member since: 2005/9/16 0:00	Quote: Slalom4me wrote: Quote: astock165 wrote: I've also considered doing roller bearing upper and lower A-arms but frankly haven't done much with that yet. Are you aware that another vendor offers upper/lower 'Roller Bearing Control Arm Bushings' for the C4? . Would that be Guld$trand?
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 15:45
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astock165	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#30
Registered Vendor Manchester NH 199 Posts Member since: 2005/11/18 0:00	Quote: Slalom4me wrote: Are you aware that another vendor offers upper/lower 'Roller Bearing Control Arm Bushings' for the C4? Yes I am, and have seen them online. I've been looking @ the whole front double A-arm setup and wondering about how it can be done better for a reasonable price. Unfortunately I haven't had any flashes of brilliance wake me @ 2:00 in the morning yet.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 15:50
	_________________ Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com
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cuisinartvette	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#31
Elite Guru 1782 Posts Member since: 2005/9/16 0:00	Seems like the battle is making something that performs well and being able to manufacture something the C4 crowd will actually pay for. Seems to be the biggest hurdle from what Ive seen. Difficult crowd.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 17:14
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ghoffman	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#32
Senior Guru 258 Posts Member since: 2008/1/25 0:00	I agree! I am considering eliminating my entire C4 product line for that very reason. It actually costs more to make C4 stuff because of that reason and the fact that C5 and C6 and C6Z have many common parts, but alot of C4 stuff is unique, so economies of scale ar harder to achieve.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 17:51

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CentralCoaster	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#33
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	I guess if something can be adapted to both generations with just a few changes, a larger rod end here, longer rod there, they you've got some economies of scale. The other part is finding a need for it. I bought the rear kit, but I wouldn't buy the toe rod, I wouldn't buy a front kit. Rear shock ends, and all the sway bar links, now I see a need for those.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 19:02
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bogus	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#34
Grand Imperial Pooh-Bah San Pedro, CA 20859 Posts Member since: 2005/9/7 0:00	Quote: ghoffman wrote: I agree! I am considering eliminating my entire C4 product line for that very reason. It actually costs more to make C4 stuff because of that reason and the fact that C5 and C6 and C6Z have many common parts, but alot of C4 stuff is unique, so economies of scale ar harder to achieve. you nailed it. The C4 changed so much from 1984-1996, it ain't even funny. Really, no two years were alike. I think 1992/3 are the most common. The detail improvments are staggering. Engine configurations, accessory drives... it's really annoying, to be honest.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 19:50
	_________________ The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. - George Bernard Shaw Education is the best tool to overcome irrational fear. - me
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astock165	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#35
Registered Vendor Manchester NH 199 Posts Member since: 2005/11/18 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: Rear shock ends, and all the sway bar links, now I see a need for those. Gary and I have rear lower shock mounts on the way. I hope to be able to test them @ NHMS @ the end of the month as I'll be there two weekends in a row. I've been working on the sway bar links but have yet to come up with something that I like. I've actually gone through two adjustable fronts and one adjustable rear this season. Hoping to do more work on this one soon.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 20:48
	_________________ Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com
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CentralCoaster	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#36
Senior Guru San Diego, CA 9454 Posts Member since: 2007/10/28 0:00	How much for just putting a whole new aftermarket adjustable swaybar in? I don't see how adjusting the end links really helps any.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 20:55
	_________________ 1985 Z51, ZF6
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BrianCunningham	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#37
Senior Guru Boston, MA for the most part :) 7763 Posts Member since: 2007/12/30 0:00	The endlinks really bind. You think the binding in the rear suspensions bad? The front swaybars are in their own league. I really don't know what GM was thinking when they came up with those links.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 22:29
	_________________ Polo Green 95 LT1 6-spd http://mysite.verizon.net/vzevcp74/ 383 LT1/Vortech Supercharger/AFR heads/Rod end suspension/Penske-Hardbar dual rate coilovers/Wilwood 6pot brakes NCCC Governor: http://BayStateCorvetteClub.com
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Steve40th	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#38
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	The more and more I read on C4's, I am thinking leave well enough alone, as there are just too many suspensions quirks.
	Posted on: 2008/10/4 23:31
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BillH	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#39
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: I don't see how adjusting the end links really helps any. The adjustment is to get the links to hit the mounting points without any bind. Remember how a lot of C4's sit lower on one side? If you are putting the car on scales, you disconnect the bars. Then when reattaching them, you adjust the links to go on the bolts freely with no bind. This insures that the swaybars have no effect on cornerweights or handling when the chassis is neutral ( not in a corner).
	Posted on: 2008/10/5 0:55
	_________________ Every man dies but not every man lives.
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astock165	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#40
Registered Vendor Manchester NH 199 Posts Member since: 2005/11/18 0:00	Quote: BillH wrote: Quote: CentralCoaster wrote: I don't see how adjusting the end links really helps any. The adjustment is to get the links to hit the mounting points without any bind. Remember how a lot of C4's sit lower on one side? If you are putting the car on scales, you disconnect the bars. Then when reattaching them, you adjust the links to go on the bolts freely with no bind. This insures that the swaybars have no effect on cornerweights or handling when the chassis is neutral ( not in a corner). Agreed, that's how I've got my car set up. I would say that an adjustable link is step 1 for the reason above and step 2 would be an adjustable sway bar to further refine the suspension.
	Posted on: 2008/10/5 12:49
	_________________ Banski MotorSports LLC Manchester NH tom@banskimotorsports.com www.banskimotorsports.com
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BillH	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#41
The Stig Moderator Reno 22702 Posts Member since: 2007/12/25 0:00	Yea, adjustable sway bars are nice. Very easy to do on open wheel cars. I've built some cockpit adjustable setups for a couple of cars. It's a little tougher to do on production cars but I've seen them on GT cars. I know a way it could be played with using a stock bar and the adjustable end links. One thing I didn't mention on setting up the end link adjustable sway bars to neutral is that the driver or simulated weight should be in the car before attaching the links.
	Posted on: 2008/10/5 14:13
	_________________ Every man dies but not every man lives.
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Steve40th	Re: Installed spherical rod end suspension from Banski Motorsports... pics	#42
Elite Guru 1114 Posts Member since: 2005/12/20 0:00	So how are the rear end trailing arms etc working out for ya? I just ordered the trailing arm kit as the binding/squeaking noise of the poly bushings are annoying.
	Posted on: 2009/4/2 6:54
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